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Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667295
11/16/19 12:05 PM
11/16/19 12:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,960
Northern Nevada
B
Bob Offline
trapper
Bob  Offline
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Posts: 3,960
Northern Nevada
I hate to say it, but I think guys with furs there are pretty much up a creek. You probably won’t see a dime after the bank is paid. The bank will take over the notes for the mink ranchers loans and could call the notes immediately which could throw a lot of ranchers into bankruptcy court too. Nafa will be forced to sell all assets and give that money directly to the bank until their debt is paid in full. After that, IF there’s any money left over, you might get your fur money.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: NAFA [Re: yukon254] #6667302
11/16/19 12:10 PM
11/16/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,843
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
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The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,843
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by yukon254
Anyone remember the new tracking system NAFA was talking about a year or so back?? They told us it would save the industry kinda like the AIHTS was going to do.


NAFA going under had nothing to do with the so called tracking system.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: NAFA [Re: The Beav] #6667311
11/16/19 12:23 PM
11/16/19 12:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Originally Posted by The Beav
Originally Posted by yukon254
Anyone remember the new tracking system NAFA was talking about a year or so back?? They told us it would save the industry kinda like the AIHTS was going to do.


NAFA going under had nothing to do with the so called tracking system.



Didnt say it did, but it didnt save the industry or increase their markets like they said it would either. Anyone old enough to remember all the claims made back when the AIHTS was shoved down our throat will understand my point.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667314
11/16/19 12:32 PM
11/16/19 12:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
W
wissmiss Offline
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wissmiss  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
Bob - I think you might be wrong (or at least I hope you are). The unsold furs at NAFA do not belong to NAFA. They belong to the people that shipped them to NAFA. I don’t think that legally the money they will sell for can be used to pay the banks. Those pelts are not a NAFA asset.

At some point those pelts will be sold and in theory the money should be paid to the shippers. If/when that happens, who knows.

I know that dealers that have goods there will be able to eventually get their furs back. Assuming that they own the goods free and clear and didn’t taken advances from NAFA.

The entire process is going to be long and drawn out. There is a “monitor “ that must approve everything that is leaving the building.


www.usedtraps.com

Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: NAFA [Re: cat4fish] #6667323
11/16/19 12:54 PM
11/16/19 12:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,855
MN
1
160user Offline
trapper
160user  Offline
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1

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,855
MN
Originally Posted by cat4fish
So what about the furs NAFA said sold that they sent rubbery checks on ?? Where did that money GO ??? NAFA took shipping and there % out and im left with nothing ??? So NAFA gets paid for STEALING, and writing bad checks ..... NOT RIGHT, seems criminal !!!! mad mad mad


And being the checks were sent through US Mail how is that not mail fraud?


I have nothing clever to put here.





Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667331
11/16/19 01:15 PM
11/16/19 01:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
M
mink99 Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
Apparently some of you guys don’t understand what bankruptcy means. It means the banks are first in line then the rest of you. Nothing criminal here. Just the ceasing of existence of a international business.

And when the banks get done there isn’t much left. We went through this with a grain elevator and it wasn’t pretty. We lost well into the 5 figures with the grain elevator.

And six years later, haven’t seen a dime of it yet.


ITA, NTA, FTA
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667332
11/16/19 01:20 PM
11/16/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
W
wissmiss Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
According to the NAFA press releases, they are not in bankruptcy and they are not in receivership. They are in a period of reorganization under the supervision of some Canadian firm that handles this sort of situation.

I’m not sure what the differences are between bankruptcy and reorganization but I am under the impression there is still hope, however slim it might be, that shippers maybe will see some money on the bad checks and the fur still at NAFA.

Just my interpretation of the situation,


www.usedtraps.com

Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: NAFA [Re: Boco] #6667334
11/16/19 01:20 PM
11/16/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,239
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
W
wy.wolfer Offline
trapper
wy.wolfer  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,239
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted by Boco
That's an idiotic statement.
Canada Goose has been supporting trappers and the wild fur industry for many years now when a lot of other manufacturers have abandoned wild fur.

This is very true. NAFA orchestrated the most effective wild fur promotion by far. NAFA promoted the ethical use of fur at the London College of fashion, the Shanghai International College of fashion, the Fashion Institute of Design at Sanda University, Donghua University's school of fashion and design just to name a very few, all while liberal fashion "instructors" from the west are continuously working to "teach" fashion students that "responsible fashion" means keeping fur out of the fashion scene. Sell your fur to someone that at least helps to participate with this in some small way now that NAFA is gone, if you don't trappers and trapping will go the way of the dinosaurs.

Re: NAFA [Re: wissmiss] #6667335
11/16/19 01:20 PM
11/16/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Originally Posted by wissmiss
Bob - I think you might be wrong (or at least I hope you are). The unsold furs at NAFA do not belong to NAFA. They belong to the people that shipped them to NAFA. I don’t think that legally the money they will sell for can be used to pay the banks. Those pelts are not a NAFA asset.

At some point those pelts will be sold and in theory the money should be paid to the shippers. If/when that happens, who knows.

I know that dealers that have goods there will be able to eventually get their furs back. Assuming that they own the goods free and clear and didn’t taken advances from NAFA.

The entire process is going to be long and drawn out. There is a “monitor “ that must approve everything that is leaving the building.


I didnt have any fur at NAFA but my son-in-law and daughter had over 120 marten. They got an email saying their fur would be shipped back to them once the dust settles. Guess time will tell.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: NAFA [Re: wy.wolfer] #6667338
11/16/19 01:29 PM
11/16/19 01:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by wy.wolfer
Originally Posted by Boco
That's an idiotic statement.
Canada Goose has been supporting trappers and the wild fur industry for many years now when a lot of other manufacturers have abandoned wild fur.

This is very true. NAFA orchestrated the most effective wild fur promotion by far. NAFA promoted the ethical use of fur at the London College of fashion, the Shanghai International College of fashion, the Fashion Institute of Design at Sanda University, Donghua University's school of fashion and design just to name a very few, all while liberal fashion "instructors" from the west are continuously working to "teach" fashion students that "responsible fashion" means keeping fur out of the fashion scene. Sell your fur to someone that at least helps to participate with this in some small way now that NAFA is gone, if you don't trappers and trapping will go the way of the dinosaurs.


I notice you dropped the " wild " here? confused

Last edited by Dirt; 11/16/19 01:30 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667347
11/16/19 01:46 PM
11/16/19 01:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
trapper
brianmall  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
Looks like a bunch of folks are about to get short end of the stick!

Just reading between lines here in TMAN with what's been posted. But NAFA looks to have just have abandoned wild fur (or at least enough shippers to pay for their bank issues?) due to (lack of market, poor management, or fraud).

My 6th sense is telling !e everyone with bounced checks are out of luck. Maybe more than that?

Every good contract has a way out of it!

I've seen companies shut down and literally keep the pensions people paid into for 20 years!

Devil is in the details.

Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667349
11/16/19 01:47 PM
11/16/19 01:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
trapper
brianmall  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
I think it's all a very calculated way of cutting losses while staying a float financially.

Your the loss! Your fur being sold with bounced check is how they stay a floating!

Last edited by brianmall; 11/16/19 01:48 PM.
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667352
11/16/19 01:49 PM
11/16/19 01:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,239
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
W
wy.wolfer Offline
trapper
wy.wolfer  Offline
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W

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,239
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Dirt, it's all "fur" promotion. Who's going to take the reins now?

Re: NAFA [Re: wy.wolfer] #6667356
11/16/19 01:59 PM
11/16/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by wy.wolfer
Dirt, it's all "fur" promotion. Who's going to take the reins now?


Promoting the use of ranch mink is not promoting the use of wild fur. If you are promoting the use of sheared ranch mink, you are doing the opposite of promoting the use of beaver.

You should update your website ( It does not work for me or is incomplete) and do some of your own promotion.

"I'm a product description. I'm a great place to add more details about your product such as sizing, material, care instructions and cleaning instructions."

Last edited by Dirt; 11/16/19 02:05 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: NAFA [Re: wissmiss] #6667377
11/16/19 02:56 PM
11/16/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
M
mink99 Offline
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M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
Originally Posted by wissmiss
According to the NAFA press releases, they are not in bankruptcy and they are not in receivership. They are in a period of reorganization under the supervision of some Canadian firm that handles this sort of situation.

I’m not sure what the differences are between bankruptcy and reorganization but I am under the impression there is still hope, however slim it might be, that shippers maybe will see some money on the bad checks and the fur still at NAFA.

Just my interpretation of the situation,


Actually, in their last press release nafa says they entered some creditor protection act. In which it says is almost the same thing as chapter 11 bankruptcy in the U.S.

That's why I used the word bankruptcy.


ITA, NTA, FTA
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667386
11/16/19 03:09 PM
11/16/19 03:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,503
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
They will rise from the ashes like a phoenix.
Phoenix furs-has a nice ring to it.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667399
11/16/19 03:25 PM
11/16/19 03:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak


The Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act (commonly referred to as the "CCAA" or the "CC, double A") is a Federal Act that allows financially troubled corporations the opportunity to restructure their affairs. By allowing the company to restructure its financial affairs, through a formal Plan of Arrangement, the CCAA presents an opportunity for the company to avoid bankruptcy and allows the creditors to receive some form of payment for amounts owing to them by the company.

The CCAA is restricted to larger corporations, as a corporation must have amounts owing to creditors in excess of $5 million to be eligible to use the Act. Corporations that do not reach this $5 million threshold can utilize the Division I Proposal under the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act. The CCAA also allows a company, if it so chooses, to address its shareholders in addition to its creditors. Typically, when the shareholders of the company are impacted by the Plan of Arrangement, they are often given the opportunity to vote on the Plan.

The process begins in the Court system when the company applies to the Court for protection under the CCAA. The Court will issue an Order giving the company 30 days of protection (often referred to as the "Stay") from its creditors to allow for the preparation of the Plan of Arrangement. The Court can extend the Stay against the creditors upon further application to the Court by the company. Typically, the Court will continue the protection beyond the initial 30-day period if the company can demonstrate that it is likely that it will file a Plan of Arrangement and an extension of the Stay is not prejudicial to the creditors, as a whole. There is no time limit on how long the Stay can be extended. During the Stay period, the company will often continue operating, although it may commence restructuring activities at any time.

A Monitor is an independent third party who is appointed by the Court to monitor the company's ongoing operations and assist with the filing and voting on the Plan of Arrangement. The Monitor's duties include monitoring the business, reporting to the Court on any major events that might impact the viability of the company, assisting the company in the preparation of the Plan of Arrangement, notifying the creditors (and shareholders) of any meetings and tabulating the votes at these meetings. The Monitor prepares a report on the Plan of Arrangement that is usually included in the mailing of the Plan.

The Plan of Arrangement is the proposal that the company is presenting to its creditors on how it intends to deal with debt it owes at the time of the initial filing with the Court. There are no restrictions on what the Plan can entail. It is not uncommon to see offers to pay a percentage on the dollar of debt, either as a lump sum or over a period of time. Plans can include an offer of shares of the company in exchange for the debt outstanding or a combination of cash and shares. The debtor can identify a particular creditor or group of creditors as "unaffected." Unaffected creditors are included in the Plan and are not to be paid in the normal course. One of the benefits of the CCAA is that it allows for this flexibility when trying to put together a Plan.

In order to be able to vote on the Plan and receive any distribution under it, a creditor must file a Proof of Claim with the Monitor. The Proof of Claim sets out what is owed to the creditor and is reviewed by the Monitor and the company. Any discrepancies between the creditor's Proof of Claim and the company's records are investigated by the company. The Plan will outline the procedures for dealing with disputed claims.

Ultimately, the company files its Plan of Arrangement and forwards it to the creditors/shareholders. A meeting of the creditors (and shareholders, if applicable) is called to vote on the Plan. For the Plan to be binding on each class of creditors, a majority of the proven creditors in that class, by number, together with 2/3 of the proven creditors in that class, by dollar value, must approve of the Plan presented to them. If a class of creditors approves the Plan, it is binding on all creditors within the class, subject to the Court's approval of the Plan. If all of the classes of creditors (and shareholders, if applicable) approve the Plan, the Court must then approve the Plan as a final step. Upon Court approval, the company continues forward as outlined under the Plan until it has satisfied the requirements under the Plan.

If a class of creditors or the Court does not approve the Plan, the company does not automatically go into bankruptcy, but the Stay is lifted. However, once the Stay has been lifted, the pressures that caused the company to initially file for CCAA protection from its creditors will likely return and, accordingly, it is quite likely that the company will be placed into receivership or bankruptcy.


Who is John Galt?
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667420
11/16/19 04:02 PM
11/16/19 04:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
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Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
You need to submit a proof of claim with the monitor so you can be added to this 3 page list.

current list of creditors

There are some interesting names on this list.

Last edited by Dirt; 11/16/19 04:19 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667426
11/16/19 04:11 PM
11/16/19 04:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
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wissmiss Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
That is an impressive list!!

I imagine if you include the names that are owed less than $1,000.00 the list would be much longer. Plus all the people that haven’t filed.


www.usedtraps.com

Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: NAFA [Re: dirt trapper] #6667429
11/16/19 04:16 PM
11/16/19 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 840
Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin
trapper234 Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 840
Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin
Some day Beaver will shine again!


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