Plane crash today.
#6680044
11/30/19 09:28 PM
11/30/19 09:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,767 Central, SD
Law Dog
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Plane crash today in Chamberlain why they took off in this weather is beyond me. 9 dead 3 alive reported, it's been storming all day.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6680226
12/01/19 05:01 AM
12/01/19 05:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,767 Central, SD
Law Dog
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Got called out to preserve the scene tonight sitting here rocking with the wind howling.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6682207
12/03/19 03:45 PM
12/03/19 03:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,548 NC, Orange Co.
QuietButDeadly
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Sad situation indeed. 9 members of a family from Idaho died in the crash. Somehow 3 members of the family survived.
Life Member: NCTA, VTA, NTA, TTFHA, MFTI Member: FTA NRA NWTF
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: ]
#6682225
12/03/19 04:36 PM
12/03/19 04:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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Too heavy ? Ice ? Disoriented pilot ? Fuel ? NTSB investigators got held up by the weather, so the investigation is just starting. The only thing I have heard is some idiotic speculation about 12 passengers on a 10 passenger plane. The folks speculating about that are not smart enough to figure two 70 pound kids do not equal a 200 pound man. Sad days for the family and community no matter what. I think that overweight could very well be the case. The empty weight of the plane is 6195. Max weight with zero fuel is 9039 9039 - 6195 = 2844 pounds Figure 12 people & their gear =2400 pounds You now have 444 pounds left for fuel at 6.3 pounds per gallon. That is only 70 gallons. The plane will hold 420 gallons. That airplane burns 66 gallons per hour. I doubt they would have only taken on one hour's fuel load to return to Idaho. Add some icing on takeoff and I can easily see a stall . BUT this is one heck of an airplane. Certified for flight into known icing conditions with deicing equipment in the wings, empannage, propellers . ...........provided it is turned on. The plane also includes stall prevention sort of like the 737 Max except it has two sensors instead of just one.
Mean As Nails
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6682282
12/03/19 05:30 PM
12/03/19 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,154 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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^^^^^^ Did you notice the weather reported "low level wind shear"? A mile from the airport, plane wouldn't have gained much elevation, hit wind shear, bad news. I don't know a whole lot about flying, but could that plane build up a significant amount of ice in just a matter of seconds?
I was on a Mark Air commercial flight 20 some years ago out of Juneau that hit wind shear on the climb shortly after take off; terrifying. The NTSB called me as well as other passengers after the incident (pilots weren't talking). People got really religious really fast that day.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6682337
12/03/19 07:03 PM
12/03/19 07:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,325 se South Dakota
NonPCfed
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I just measured the Chamberlain airport runway on Google Earth, approximately 8,600 feet. Its on "top" of the river hill. If a plane was heading west or northwest it would have had only a couple miles before over the river breaks and the reservoir itself but it doesn't sound like the plane even made it that far so it would have still been over flat ground.
Law Dog- How far from the I-90 rest stop and Serenity statue did it crash...?
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6682367
12/03/19 07:33 PM
12/03/19 07:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,154 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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^^^^^^ It crashed in a flat corn field about one mile from the airport. The pictures look like it was a catastrophic crash, I don't know how anyone survived. It doesn't look at all like the pilot was attempting a "crash landing". Most likely a stall event due to some factor is my guess.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6682411
12/03/19 08:08 PM
12/03/19 08:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,767 Central, SD
Law Dog
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I can't comment now that I'm working the site the fact it's about a mile from the airport.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6684328
12/05/19 07:54 PM
12/05/19 07:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,943 South Dakota
Hydropillar
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was visiting with a friend of mine about the crash... he observed the props still intact and attached to hub ,, possibly feathered... he thinks engine out... he said heard they took on 150 gallons fuel... im sure the investigators will find out especially if it was power failure... bad deal for sure... lots of eyes on this one as its a heck of a airplane built with power and equip for flying into known ice...
The only place you find free cheese is in a mousetrap !
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: white17]
#6684421
12/05/19 09:25 PM
12/05/19 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 415 South Dakota
Prn
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I don't think I'd buy that. Just looking at the picture in the link above you can only see three blades. There are 5 on that prop. I would say they hit the ground with power on I bet there was a bulge in the floor board from the throttle being pushed on so hard (kidding). If they are anything like me they take way way to much "stuff" on a hunting trip. My uneducated guess is a combo of heavy load and ice on the wings.
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6684428
12/05/19 09:27 PM
12/05/19 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,788 MN
160user
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White, that was a heck of a load calc or performance planning post you made. Again I am impressed!
I have nothing clever to put here.
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: white17]
#6684476
12/05/19 09:51 PM
12/05/19 09:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,943 South Dakota
Hydropillar
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LOL . It may not be anywhere near correct either. But if that second article is correct that there was possibly ice, frost and snow on the aircraft.....it wouldn't much matter how much weight he had on board. It wasn't going to fly like that. Especially if they encountered a wind shear
I would like to know......and maybe Hydropillar can find out...........was the engine found on a continuous path in the direction of takeoff ?
In other words, if they were taking of to the north was the engine located north of the fuselage when it all stopped moving ? im just your average vfr pilot my friend is a life long amp ... he said the other crashes he was invloved in props were thrown to the 4 winds..... so im not trying to overstep my bounds of wisdom... stands to merit prop blade we can see in pic is feathered..... whats the instructions for engine out?? He dont think it was spinning.. 4 sure inspctors will tell the tail......
Last edited by Hydropillar; 12/05/19 09:55 PM.
The only place you find free cheese is in a mousetrap !
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: white17]
#6684485
12/05/19 09:55 PM
12/05/19 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,788 MN
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LOL . It may not be anywhere near correct either. But if that second article is correct that there was possibly ice, frost and snow on the aircraft.....it wouldn't much matter how much weight he had on board. It wasn't going to fly like that. Especially if they encountered a wind shear
I would like to know......and maybe Hydropillar can find out...........was the engine found on a continuous path in the direction of takeoff ?
In other words, if they were taking of to the north was the engine located north of the fuselage when it all stopped moving ? I am far from an expert but in wreckage I have seen, if the engine was still under power the propeller tips will be bent in the direction of engine rotation and/or the engine under power will seperate from the wing. White, you are a pilot, I am not.
I have nothing clever to put here.
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6684523
12/05/19 10:27 PM
12/05/19 10:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,943 South Dakota
Hydropillar
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Ugly deal for sure !! im just being couch potato coach...... i can see a pilot bushing snow off wings... taking off 8000 ft runway over weight wind sheer,ice ,he shoulda augered right through it with that plane ... im voteing for fuel contamination
The only place you find free cheese is in a mousetrap !
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Hydropillar]
#6684599
12/05/19 11:06 PM
12/05/19 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,788 MN
160user
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Ugly deal for sure !! im just being couch potato coach...... i can see a pilot bushing snow off wings... taking off 8000 ft runway over weight wind sheer,ice ,he shoulda augered right through it with that plane ... im voteing for fuel contamination I am not sure what to think but fuel starvation shouldn’t have been an issue. I am leant towards gross overload and IMC conditions.
I have nothing clever to put here.
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: white17]
#6684607
12/05/19 11:10 PM
12/05/19 11:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,943 South Dakota
Hydropillar
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Yes I can see him figuring the prop wash would clear the wings of snow but certainly not frost. I just can't accept that this guy would make that mistake.
Lots of variables and it was probably a combination of ingredients. X2 ...too much bad combination... kinda like eatin chinese gets ya a belly ache....
The only place you find free cheese is in a mousetrap !
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6684706
12/06/19 12:52 AM
12/06/19 12:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,414 Idaho Falls, Idaho
Furvor
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Thanksgiving pheasant hunting trip was an annual tradition with that extended Mormon family. A picture showed them gathered around a picnic table that had pheasants piled 2 or 3 or 4 high. I would guess average weight of passengers was well under 200lbs. May they rest in peace.
Reported age of 3 male survivors was17, 27, and 28.
Last edited by Furvor; 12/06/19 01:04 AM.
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: white17]
#6685565
12/06/19 11:31 PM
12/06/19 11:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,943 South Dakota
Hydropillar
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I noticed the NTSB guy said visibility was one half mile. The minimum viz for IFR take off, in single engine, is one statute mile
EDIT: I just looked at that airport. Two runways; one is 4300 feet and the other is 3400. I'll bet he used all most all of whichever one he was using. you right on runway lengths... not sure where i got that 8000 ft i quoted... definitely wrong i didnt know that about 1 statue mile for ifr... is it less for a twin??
The only place you find free cheese is in a mousetrap !
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Hydropillar]
#6685969
12/07/19 01:23 PM
12/07/19 01:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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I noticed the NTSB guy said visibility was one half mile. The minimum viz for IFR take off, in single engine, is one statute mile
EDIT: I just looked at that airport. Two runways; one is 4300 feet and the other is 3400. I'll bet he used all most all of whichever one he was using. you right on runway lengths... not sure where i got that 8000 ft i quoted... definitely wrong i didnt know that about 1 statue mile for ifr... is it less for a twin?? No it is not less for a twin. Three engines or more drops the minimums to one half mile GENERALLY. But specific airports still may not support the lower minimums due to things like surrounding terrain features, trees, poles and , of course, the length of the runway AND the approaches to the runway. If you can't return and land on the runway you are departing, you shouldn't be departing at all. The key thing to remember is that landings are mandatory. Takeoffs are not. Good judgement will keep you alive
Mean As Nails
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6686096
12/07/19 04:35 PM
12/07/19 04:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,325 se South Dakota
NonPCfed
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I measured the main runway (the one that is paved, I see the other one now is grass) at work with Google Earth. Don't know how I got over 8,000 feet. Just measured the paved runway in Google Map here and its about 4,300 feet which matches this published info... http://www.airnav.com/airport/9v9
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6696551
12/17/19 05:19 PM
12/17/19 05:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932 SEPA
Lugnut
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A tragedy for sure. I read the preliminary report, had to look up empennage.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6696593
12/17/19 05:59 PM
12/17/19 05:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,154 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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Cockpit stall warning came on 1 second after takeoff, sounds like they had trouble from the get-go. But like what happens so many times it was probably more than one problem combined with another problem(s) that caused the ultimate crash.
I know what a "stick shaker" is, but what's a "stick pusher"?
Last edited by waggler; 12/17/19 06:00 PM.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6696611
12/17/19 06:26 PM
12/17/19 06:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,767 Central, SD
Law Dog
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That 7MPH wind is suspect.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6696818
12/17/19 08:42 PM
12/17/19 08:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,154 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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I used to suffer from "get-home-itis" when I was younger; no more. I'm always ready to bivouac, always feel right about it when I do it.
Usually I'm out alone, or at least when others are present I'm more or less in charge. That makes it easy when it's necessary to make the decision to stay put. When you're with a group of people (usually greenhorns) it's often difficult for some people to stand firm on the right decision.
Sad situation, so many needless deaths.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: white17]
#6696850
12/17/19 09:03 PM
12/17/19 09:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,767 Central, SD
Law Dog
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That 7MPH wind is suspect. Note too that he was on runway 31 and the wind was @ 020. That's 70 degrees OFF the nose. Almost a 90 degree crosswind. If the wind was indeed 7mph he could handle that but 40 mph would be challenging I sat out there that night the truck was rocking from the wind that’s a pretty big difference for just a few hours.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6696860
12/17/19 09:07 PM
12/17/19 09:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,943 South Dakota
Hydropillar
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As the saying goes
Theres old pilots theres Bold pilots but theres no old bold pilots/
The only place you find free cheese is in a mousetrap !
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Hydropillar]
#6696904
12/17/19 09:42 PM
12/17/19 09:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,154 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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As the saying goes
Theres old pilots theres Bold pilots but theres no old bold pilots/ Every once and a while I fly with one of the few "old bold pilots". Only by necessity though. He's crashed a couple of times, don't really know how he's survived so long. Another one would be the late Bob Harte, cancer got him, not his plane.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Plane crash today.
[Re: Law Dog]
#6699267
12/19/19 08:59 PM
12/19/19 08:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,655 ND
MJM
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4,277 Lbs is what it said he had left for fuel, people and gear. I would guess he was about maxed out weight wise, add a little ice and she won't fly. He just put on 150 gallons of fuel on top of what was left. 12 people and gear add up pretty fast.
"Not Really, Not Really" Mark J Monti "MJM you're a jerk."
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