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Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6683773
12/05/19 08:26 AM
12/05/19 08:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
trapper
Marty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Not sure about the world but the USA has become prideful. Today it is for a large % of folks that what you have is far more important than who you are. Self centered and 'look at me' reigns.....I find it very disconcerting.

smile


E
'Honey Badger Militia'
Sleep, the anti woke adote.
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Mike in A-town] #6683828
12/05/19 09:15 AM
12/05/19 09:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,139
B61-12 vicinity, MO
T
TreedaBlackdog Offline
trapper
TreedaBlackdog  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,139
B61-12 vicinity, MO
Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
Originally Posted by foxhunter52
We've covered a few "What Ifs" here. How about another one. What if an EMP was successfully detonated over the US by a country intent on taking over. The only military we would have would be that which was deployed in other places or on Naval carriers. Other than that, ground soldiers would be our only means of defense on the home front. I do however believe that if there was a successful EMP it might well be an act of domestic terrorism. I would then hope humanity would prevail and other nations would come to our aid. And to be truthful, I really don't believe any of this will happen! It's just kind of interesting to speculate on the event it MIGHT.


I would lay money that most military installations are hardened, at least in part, for this scenario... And since EMP is a byproduct of nuclear detonation I would guarantee that our missile solos are protected... Along with our ballistic missile submarines.

A country might manage to cripple the US electrical grid but I doubt they would live long enough to celebrate or invade us.

Mike


Mike -

I firmly disagree. 9/11 showed us clearly what a few individuals could do. We were invaded and our guard is down again......God gave our country a warning, our wall was breached and He will allow an invasion of our country while we continue on our prideful path of sin.

Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684010
12/05/19 12:43 PM
12/05/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
Big George W Offline
trapper
Big George W  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
When I was still an active member of our all volunteer fire dept, one of our members who worked in the control room in the New Haven Power Plant made it sound like all one had to do was arc the feeder lines, which could be done with a crossbow and some heavy gauge copper wire attached to the trailing side of the arrow.
a] I doubt you could successfully fire such a rig without being tangled, and b] I question the validity of that statement because I feel the wire being used to arc the feeders would just burn off.

However, after he made that statement, we were blessed with a massive power failure in the north east, this was I think during the summer of 2003, maybe 2004 ?? which somehow got attributed to the trees of the Mohawk Valley, which is another statement I find hard to believe - but it did make me reconsider the crossbow statement.....

Regarding my previous comment, I did as a tech on the Blackhawk Assembly line, he felt that the aircraft are shielded from an electrical standpoint from EMP radiation, but not the crews.

VH aircraft on the other hand are fully shielded - which one would expect.

I'll poke into that further when I cross paths with some of my old pals in Flt Ops....

Yeah, either way - EMP would be real bad for those who depend on modern technology...........
But for those who modern society views as backwards, my money is on that they would be just fine, since their way of living tends to be more survival based to begin with,

Last edited by Big George W; 12/05/19 12:44 PM. Reason: obvious spelling errors - again !!

Respect,
Big George + Loki the Dog.....
East Derby, CT
CTA [life member], NTA, FTA, FBU
Connecticut Republican Party
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684047
12/05/19 01:30 PM
12/05/19 01:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
foxhunter52 Offline OP
trapper
foxhunter52  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
Our Church stresses the importance of self-reliance by getting out of debt, gaining as much education as possible, managing family finances, learning to garden and how to store food and resources in the event of an emergency. I think that's great and I try to comply with those principles. I think I also understand the purpose and importance of mortality but find it a bit ironic that we cling so hard to this mortal life when we also believe in a much better life to come. Still I know it would be a most difficult thing to watch loved ones suffer knowing that with some preparation and knowledge we could have made it better.

I suppose this is why I like to be a part of this board. I'm pretty sure most of us here know how to catch a fish, shoot a rabbit, plant a seed. I think many here would be just fine.

Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684049
12/05/19 01:34 PM
12/05/19 01:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
There will be plenty of those preppers ripe for the picking.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684053
12/05/19 01:38 PM
12/05/19 01:38 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 349
Ohio
M
Mike C Offline
trapper
Mike C  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 349
Ohio
That 2003/04 incident started near Mansfield, Ohio. The electric companies were pushing so much electricity through high voltage lines that they heated up and expanded, sagging into trees below the lines. Once that circuit went electricity was then automatically routed through different lines, which were already maxed out, causing a cascade of failures which led to the blackout over such a large area. The 1968 (think that was the year) blackout in the northeast was caused by a single relay failure that caused another cascade of failures over a large area.

I too know of a former electric company employee who gave insight into the vulnerability of the entire electrical grid. One or two key components, and they don't have to be very large or expensive, failing at the right time could take down a very large area of the grid. He stated that an individual with the knowledge and know how could EASILY do the same.

Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Big George W] #6684062
12/05/19 01:45 PM
12/05/19 01:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Originally Posted by Big George W
When I was still an active member of our all volunteer fire dept, one of our members who worked in the control room in the New Haven Power Plant made it sound like all one had to do was arc the feeder lines, which could be done with a crossbow and some heavy gauge copper wire attached to the trailing side of the arrow.
a] I doubt you could successfully fire such a rig without being tangled, and b] I question the validity of that statement because I feel the wire being used to arc the feeders would just burn off.



The wire does not even have to be that thick. Once you have an arc, the very air is ionized, thats what the ark is and ionized air conducts electricity just fine. Its the basis of electric welding. So all you need is a thin wire to initiate said ark and the rest will happen without any outside materials being needed.

Disclaimer. Don't try this at home.

Those transformers are oil filled for insulation and cooling a couple of rounds of .50 BMG AP ...one in the top and one at the bottom would get them to fail real quick.

Last edited by Scuba1; 12/05/19 01:47 PM.

Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684065
12/05/19 01:46 PM
12/05/19 01:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
foxhunter52 Offline OP
trapper
foxhunter52  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
Boco, Is that how you're going to survive? By cherry picking preppers? I wouldn't by any means call my self a prepper, but you can come to my house an I'll share what I have. smile

Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Boco] #6684106
12/05/19 03:00 PM
12/05/19 03:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,171
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,171
ny
Originally Posted by Boco
There will be plenty of those preppers ripe for the picking.

And a lot of people getting real sad real quick when they think that.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684144
12/05/19 04:13 PM
12/05/19 04:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
I seen them preppers on utube,lol.
I stand by my statement that most will be ripe for the pickin'.(not by me though).


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684156
12/05/19 04:30 PM
12/05/19 04:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
foxhunter52 Offline OP
trapper
foxhunter52  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
So that brings up another interesting question. If you've got food resources and guns to protect it, do you shoot or do you share?

Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684164
12/05/19 04:39 PM
12/05/19 04:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Originally Posted by foxhunter52
So that brings up another interesting question. If you've got food resources and guns to protect it, do you shoot or do you share?


That I can answer with a definite " that depends" .


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684165
12/05/19 04:41 PM
12/05/19 04:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
By the time you figure out the depends part it will likely be all over.
Trying to hold out alone would be a miserable existance and only a matter of a short time before you were gone.
Only way to survive would be as part of a "tribe" or tight knit community sharing skills and defense and work.

Last edited by Boco; 12/05/19 04:44 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: foxhunter52] #6684217
12/05/19 05:56 PM
12/05/19 05:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Well BOCO it is always refreshing having these insightful and educational comments from experts like yourself. Nice to know there is a role model for every one of us out there.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Scuba1] #6684250
12/05/19 06:34 PM
12/05/19 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,171
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,171
ny
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Well BOCO it is always refreshing having these insightful and educational comments from experts like yourself. Nice to know there is a role model for every one of us out there.

Hahahahaaaa


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Scuba1] #6684261
12/05/19 06:54 PM
12/05/19 06:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
You can keep your snarky remarks to yourself mr expert.

Last edited by Boco; 12/05/19 06:54 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Scuba1] #6684268
12/05/19 07:00 PM
12/05/19 07:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Originally Posted by Big George W
When I was still an active member of our all volunteer fire dept, one of our members who worked in the control room in the New Haven Power Plant made it sound like all one had to do was arc the feeder lines, which could be done with a crossbow and some heavy gauge copper wire attached to the trailing side of the arrow.
a] I doubt you could successfully fire such a rig without being tangled, and b] I question the validity of that statement because I feel the wire being used to arc the feeders would just burn off.



The wire does not even have to be that thick. Once you have an arc, the very air is ionized, thats what the ark is and ionized air conducts electricity just fine. Its the basis of electric welding. So all you need is a thin wire to initiate said ark and the rest will happen without any outside materials being needed.

Disclaimer. Don't try this at home.

Those transformers are oil filled for insulation and cooling a couple of rounds of .50 BMG AP ...one in the top and one at the bottom would get them to fail real quick.


Nah, it happens all the time in thunderstorms... A tree branch will lay across a couple of phases and and it automatically trips and shuts down. Then the little timer in the recloser waits X number of seconds and then closes the circuit again... It will do that for a preset number of times before it gives up and leaves the circuit open. 2 or 3 times is usually enough to burn a tree branch in half and clear the fault. Copper has virtually no resistance so it will burn quick. It's like a self cleaning oven. laugh

You would need something that can handle several hits of a bajillion amps of fault current.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Scuba1] #6684281
12/05/19 07:10 PM
12/05/19 07:10 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 533
MN
S
SkyeDancer Offline
trapper
SkyeDancer  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 533
MN
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Originally Posted by foxhunter52
So that brings up another interesting question. If you've got food resources and guns to protect it, do you shoot or do you share?


That I can answer with a definite " that depends" .


Never share of tell anyone what you have

Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: Boco] #6684286
12/05/19 07:14 PM
12/05/19 07:14 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 533
MN
S
SkyeDancer Offline
trapper
SkyeDancer  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 533
MN
Originally Posted by Boco
By the time you figure out the depends part it will likely be all over.
Trying to hold out alone would be a miserable existance and only a matter of a short time before you were gone.
Only way to survive would be as part of a "tribe" or tight knit community sharing skills and defense and work.

I
That's BS! The more people involved the more desent and devision. I will take my chances alone or with a small trusted group any time

Re: Nuclear EMP [Re: TreedaBlackdog] #6684303
12/05/19 07:25 PM
12/05/19 07:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by TreedaBlackdog
I firmly disagree. 9/11 showed us clearly what a few individuals could do. We were invaded and our guard is down again......God gave our country a warning, our wall was breached and He will allow an invasion of our country while we continue on our prideful path of sin.


Individuals or a small cell of terrorists aren't going to be able to put a guided missile topped by a nuclear weapon 30 miles up into the atmosphere... That's a state-sponsored act of war... Iran, North Korea, etc...

Our missile silos are protected from the effects of nuclear EMP so that retaliation is ensured. If they weren't, I'm sure the Russians or Chinese would have tried it years ago and then invaded while we were in the dark with non-functional nuclear missiles.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/04/opinion/l-emp-can-t-stop-american-nuclear-retaliation-084377.html

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
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