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Wisconsin and Wolves ... #6687853
12/09/19 10:37 AM
12/09/19 10:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,683
Newark, Ohio 83 years
Actor Offline OP
trapper
Actor  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,683
Newark, Ohio 83 years
This is an interesting article about the history of the reintroduction of wolves in Wisconsin. I personally think our ancestors had it right and got rid of them in most places, was the right thing to do.

This is my opinion and I am sure there are different opinions, so be calm and don't get too excited, if your opinion is different than mine.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2019/12/02/wisconsin-residents-call-for-delisting-wolves-as-endangered/

Garry-

Last edited by Actor; 12/09/19 11:13 AM.

“Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.”

Have been trapping 77 years…
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687854
12/09/19 10:40 AM
12/09/19 10:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 4,100
Bonner County, Idaho
Wild_Idaho Offline
trapper
Wild_Idaho  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 4,100
Bonner County, Idaho
Management is key and even more importantly is managing those numbers before they get to something like 900 in the states of Idaho and Wisconsin. No idea Wisconsin had as many wolves as we do.


Real name Eric
The sharpest hammer in the box of crayons.

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687860
12/09/19 10:55 AM
12/09/19 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,110
Three Lakes,WI 72
C
corky Offline
trapper
corky  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,110
Three Lakes,WI 72
Everybody in the population centers in the southern part of the State love them because they don't have to deal with them like we in the north do. Population management is basically nonexistent due to bunny hugger lawsuits continually moving the population goalposts. Wolves are a great fund raiser topic for animal rights organizations and their attorneys.

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687862
12/09/19 10:59 AM
12/09/19 10:59 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,009
ohio
T
tomahawker Offline
trapper
tomahawker  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,009
ohio
Definitely see both sides. Wolves are wilderness creatures and frankly that’s where we wish we could be. That being said, I go off the rails when I’m missing only a chicken or duck.

Last edited by tomahawker; 12/09/19 10:59 AM.
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687868
12/09/19 11:21 AM
12/09/19 11:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
I wager a Spotted cow at the Local tavern that we have more than 900 wolves in WI


WI-DNR states 238 packs https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Wildlifehabitat/wolf/documents/wolfreport2018.pdf

they reported nearly identical numbers in 2017 but with 232 packs

in the 2018 report average pack size is 3.7 down from the 4.4 of the 2017 report with the number of packs increased.

even if each pack has 1 surviving cub figuring for cub and adult mortality that means the population grows by 238 each year.

the last several years reports all show gains of around 80-100 wolves a year but stagnant for 2018

in WI tracking through the reports it appears WI wolves make smaller than average packs and split packs more often than wolves in the west. following this logic due to the abundance of food in WI and the ease of hunting it packs divide and multiply much faster than normal.

was the 2017-2018 winter that hard that zero growth

the report even states minimum number of 925-952 , Venture we are well over 1K I suspect the data collection method may only have the resources to count 952


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687883
12/09/19 11:41 AM
12/09/19 11:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,975
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,975
Wisconsin
In my area I saw lots more tracks this year than in past years. I also believe the population grew more than their estimates state.

Last edited by 8117 Steve R; 12/09/19 08:11 PM.

Steve
WTA
NRA
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687910
12/09/19 12:13 PM
12/09/19 12:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
G
Getting There Offline
trapper
Getting There  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
How much food does the average Wolf eat a week, we know they do not eat every day.


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687930
12/09/19 12:23 PM
12/09/19 12:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
I do not believe wolves should be eradicated. They simply need to be managed, and the natural fear of man recharged in them.
As for the natives if they have found some religious status for wolves or bears for that matter wonderful, keep them untouchable on your Rez like they do in Minnesota. If you look at some of the old tin type photos it sure appears a lot of Indians wore wolf fur, and there sure were a bunch of my native ancestors who were named for the number of sacred bears they killed. ( maybe that's where I get my drive to hunt bears? )
As for the counting of wolves considering in mortality the population could stay stagnant but only if you measure within a defined area. How do you know if they are accurately counting the dispersed wolves that are expanding the range? In Minnesota people now report seeing wolves as far south as Iowa and into North Dakota. Word from Wisconsin people is much the same. Like coyotes without repercussions and with enough food source what is to stop population growth and expansion?
Without the use of poison or some unknown devastating disease wolves are now here to stay.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687965
12/09/19 01:10 PM
12/09/19 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,489
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
M
martentrapper Offline
trapper
martentrapper  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,489
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
I always scoff at estimates of populations and especially of pack numbers. "Pack" is not a static term. Packs lose and ad members often. Being an "alpha". Is hard. They die or get run off regularly. Greatest cause of death in Alaska is............other wolves!!
Without lots of air time, radio collaring, and especially harvest numbers...........managers have little idea of actual numbers.
Lower 48 states desperately need regular hunting/trapping seasons with tagging of pelts. No harvest quotas, just open seasons that parallel other specie trapping season. Wolves learn just as well as we do. They will learn, harvests will stabilize, and wolf numbers will stabilize at a manageable number. In addition, managers will have harvest statistics to give them better population ideas.
Alaska has relatively long hunting and trapping seasons. While much of the state has literally zero harvest, even in easy access areas, there are still healthy wolf numbers. After dozens of years of harvest and tagging, managers have decent ideas, notice I said "ideas", of wolf numbers. We also have federal agencies that dump money and equipment in to keeping track of wolves.
MT

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6687969
12/09/19 01:16 PM
12/09/19 01:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
MT the trappers do well here on wolves when allowed. Our other control should be the deer hunters. Tags can be sold during that season I think with success as those guys sitting in stands probably see more wolves than anyone.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Osky] #6688038
12/09/19 02:50 PM
12/09/19 02:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,658
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,658
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Osky
I do not believe wolves should be eradicated. They simply need to be managed, and the natural fear of man recharged in them.
As for the natives if they have found some religious status for wolves or bears for that matter wonderful, keep them untouchable on your Rez like they do in Minnesota. If you look at some of the old tin type photos it sure appears a lot of Indians wore wolf fur, and there sure were a bunch of my native ancestors who were named for the number of sacred bears they killed. ( maybe that's where I get my drive to hunt bears? )
As for the counting of wolves considering in mortality the population could stay stagnant but only if you measure within a defined area. How do you know if they are accurately counting the dispersed wolves that are expanding the range? In Minnesota people now report seeing wolves as far south as Iowa and into North Dakota. Word from Wisconsin people is much the same. Like coyotes without repercussions and with enough food source what is to stop population growth and expansion?
Without the use of poison or some unknown devastating disease wolves are now here to stay.

Osky

Spot on Osky


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688042
12/09/19 02:58 PM
12/09/19 02:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
DuxDawg Offline
trapper
DuxDawg  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
Wish I had kept all the newspaper articles with the WI DNR bragging about introducing wolves to WI. Also them admitting the wolf population in WI was above 2,000 wolves. All that was many years ago.


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
"We are fast approaching... rule by brute force."
-Ayn Rand
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688069
12/09/19 03:53 PM
12/09/19 03:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
20+ years ago, I attended a meeting with the DNR admitting there were 3,700 wolves estimated to be in MN. Since that time there has been one season allowing the taking one wolf. Now, considering that, they expect us to believe there are less than 3,000 wolves in MN now?


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688082
12/09/19 04:16 PM
12/09/19 04:16 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
trapper
tlguy  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
Trapper7, you say they harvested 1 wolf in Minnesota? That's a typo, right? I just looked and between the 2012 and 2013 seasons, over 650 wolf were harvested.

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688150
12/09/19 05:49 PM
12/09/19 05:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
tlguy- I read that as a 1 wolf limit per trapper.

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688167
12/09/19 06:06 PM
12/09/19 06:06 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
trapper
tlguy  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
Could be. But they had at least 2 seasons (WI had 3). Makes me wonder how credible a 20 year old recollection of a number is. Could be that population estimates weren't as accurate back then. And we all know how little faith people have in them now...

But for the purpose of our argument, it doesn't matter if there are 2,000 or 3,000 or 10,000 wolves. States should have management authority.

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688175
12/09/19 06:14 PM
12/09/19 06:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
they should have a trapping season on them with a set quota , register them by 21:00 and every morning at 03:00 the numbers have been counted season is closed or not for each zone , if the season is closed anything in a trap you call in and give them the opportunity to micro chip , collar and release.

they might learn a bunch more having larger numbers microchiped and get a better count to get some more accurate numbers in the future.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6688196
12/09/19 06:39 PM
12/09/19 06:39 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
trapper
tlguy  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
That's not too far from how they did it in WI back when we had a season, except there's likely not enough staff to chip/collar all the wolves caught in a zone the day the zone closes. Some zones closed in 2 days back when we had a season. I would like to see a later start date, and maybe even a split early/late season with separate quotas.

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688197
12/09/19 06:39 PM
12/09/19 06:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 13,964
Michigan
T
Trapper Dahlgren Offline
trapper
Trapper Dahlgren  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 13,964
Michigan
I know we have way to many in the u p of Michigan !!!!

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6688203
12/09/19 06:40 PM
12/09/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Sportsmen should never have relinquished this fight to other stakeholders IMO. The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation should not of been abandoned, but we listened to those folks that said, don't ruffle any feathers. It is not politically popular to trap / hunt wolves. Guess what? Listening to that line of thought cost us years.

Instead of being out in front talking about the benefit a season has for a specie and especially a recovering one, our inaction has already put the next specie's season in the crosshair--lake sturgeon. Animal rights activists petitioned USFWS to add them to the list. As that goes through the review, it is not hard to see the parallels. A lot of places sturgeon are not doing well, yet we have one of the largest and healthiest population right in my back yard. A population that supports the largest spear fishery in the country and has provided invaluable science to help these prehistoric fish return to waters in and out of the state. The possibility of losing this tradition, revenue stream, and all the science that comes with it is only possible because we refused to lead on wolves.

Hopefully the fisherman won't wait until they lose the season to start to lead on the issue and instead put their focus on wolves. Start the decision with lawmakers about the role the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation has played in bringing back wolves and the value we can create when we manage a specie. Better yet, get out in the public square and open the dialogue with those folks that are not as close to the issue.

Last edited by WIMarshRAT; 12/09/19 06:43 PM.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
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