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Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: ToTheWoods] #6689079
12/10/19 02:42 PM
12/10/19 02:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by ToTheWoods
Where you find wolves you will not find the coyotes you are looking for in that area. Coyote numbers in an area or lack there of are a great indicator of the wolf population. No coyote= wolves on the other hand wolf country can be great fox hunting/trapping opportunities. Wolf and coyote compete for the same food sources and the wolf will not tolerate them. Wolves will tolerate the fox for that same reason



That may be generally correct but not everywhere. I think it depends on the habitat and prey base. There is an area east of me that has a dense coyote population as well as a respectable wolf population. The two do not compete for the same prey simply because the coyotes can't take down a bison and probably not a moose with any regularity. But the coyotes do benefit from the left overs of the wolf kills. They also spend more time hunting hares, voles, grouse etc


Mean As Nails
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689203
12/10/19 05:09 PM
12/10/19 05:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
R
Rally Offline
trapper
Rally  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
Osky,
The Dept of Ag/ WS is paid for by the government, and your correct, the actual trappers are not making much. However, the state is paid by the federal government to conduct all these wolf studies, and that amount far exceeds any possible revenue from license sales possible to the states.
When the wolf season was first started, anyone wanting to be a nuisance wolf trapper had to get certified by WS, by taking a class, and paying $150.00 to attend.
When the program started, these trappers took more wolves in 11 days than WS took the previous year. Those words came from John Erbs mouth, who is doing the wolf studies here/ our furbearer biologist.
Also consider that as long as the wolf is on the CITES list it is a federally protected species and that fines for illegally taking one, far exceeds what a state controlled species would yield ( that word is not a mistake). As long as the parameters of the wolf program stay as they currently are, the government agencies will maintain their revenue streams. Either WS or the trappers of this state could easily control the wolf population at a healthy level, just like any canine species

Dirt,
Mn. is not Alaska, it can be accessed easily by snomo during our long winters. The only restraints on trappers/ snaremen are put on us by the DNR/ government , by way of trap check laws, equipment restraints, and restricted travel areas. Catching wolves is not a problem, keeping them out of everything is the real problem, and actually getting to use the resource.


Keep your boots dry
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689205
12/10/19 05:13 PM
12/10/19 05:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 10
Wisconsin
F
FoxRiverTrapper Offline
trapper
FoxRiverTrapper  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 10
Wisconsin
The week before Gun Season my buddy was bow hunting and got chased out of the woods by a pack of Wolfs North West of Green Bay.... Seems that if this type of stuff is happening there is a problem. Now he will not go into any woods without a sidearm. Can't blame the guy... I think he needed new underwear also.


WTA
NTA
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689223
12/10/19 05:41 PM
12/10/19 05:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,134
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,134
Armpit, ak
Rally I understand that access is not a problem, it would be your low harvest quotas. If you are trying to reduce a wolf population, you need to harvest more than 10-20% of the wolf population per year.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689239
12/10/19 05:55 PM
12/10/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
Thanks Rally I figured the money was somewhere up the line. Other than a few instances of helping captain Ken and some of the bear researchers I have no knowledge of the upper workings.

My godfather and his family were at the place 20 some years ago walking out and back on our 2 mile driveway. Half way back they had wolves circle them in the bush and follow them back to the place howling and yapping from the bush. As you can imagine they were all scared to death. They did not have any pets along, and I still have no clue why that happened.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Dirt] #6689242
12/10/19 05:57 PM
12/10/19 05:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
Originally Posted by Dirt
Rally I understand that access is not a problem, it would be your low harvest quotas. If you are trying to reduce a wolf population, you need to harvest more than 10-20% of the wolf population per year.


Those seasons here were to placate not reduce population numbers.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Osky] #6689253
12/10/19 06:06 PM
12/10/19 06:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,134
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,134
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Osky
Originally Posted by Dirt
Rally I understand that access is not a problem, it would be your low harvest quotas. If you are trying to reduce a wolf population, you need to harvest more than 10-20% of the wolf population per year.


Those seasons here were to placate not reduce population numbers.

Osky


Best I can find, Minnesota has no maximum Population Objective? I see they are approaching twice their minimum.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689371
12/10/19 07:47 PM
12/10/19 07:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
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Rally Offline
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
Well jeez Dirt, they have only been studying them 40 years!! LOL


Keep your boots dry
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689377
12/10/19 07:54 PM
12/10/19 07:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,292
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,292
East-Central Wisconsin
The fact that wolf population numbers are widely disputed and many state are bogus, may have an impact on the federal justice system and why they prohibit harvest or management.
From a preservation aspect the best way to preserve a species is to put seasons on them, make them game species, because with that comes research, management and staff with dollars etc. Plus it changes the social perception from an over populated, unregulated predator to a species that is considered highly by those who harvest, manage and do research on.
If and there seems to be more evidence yearly that whitetail populations in the northwoods ( wolf habitat and areas where wolves are in their older habitat) which as the forest ages deer become less common. The wolves will expand their range to find prey. There are areas of WI that can hold far more wolves then in the north. It will be socially unacceptable for the wolves to attain those levels. Also the nature of the large canine is to drive away the younger pack members to minimize pack social structure but also minimize inbreeding. These are highly evolved traits that will never leave the behavior of the wolf and the packs.

We are missing a huge opportunity in managing wildlife. Not many regions can provide the habitat for as diverse of a wildlife population as we have and we are not taking advantage of that. There are numerous factors impacting the cyclic population swings or downward numbers of deer in northern WI but that should not prevent us from managing species on the landscape. I am making a guess but believe that prior to logging northern WI with a mature old growth forest and very low deer numbers had fewer wolves then are with us today. Once the forest was cleared the deer population rose dramatically and we had a generation of time for wolves and during that time we had bounties on them to eliminate them. Bringing back species impacts many aspects of an ecosystem. One of the advantages of bringing back fishers, elk etc. is through studies and research we can see how that introduction roles out and what impacts there is to the landscape.

Bryce

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Rally] #6689693
12/11/19 12:50 AM
12/11/19 12:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,134
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,134
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Rally
Well jeez Dirt, they have only been studying them 40 years!! LOL


I didn't know it was that funny that Minnesota was F'd up.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689880
12/11/19 09:59 AM
12/11/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,239
SW WI
trapper20 Offline
trapper
trapper20  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,239
SW WI
one thing ive learned about the DNR, if they give you their professional knowledge-its usually way off. in SW WI theyve said we dont have mountain lions or wolves, but yet weve had confirmed (by the DNR) wolf kills and a few mountain lion sightings. I had a warden this summer tell me our county only had 4 pairs of rattlesnakes in the whole county and they know this because they research/watch them extensively. within a month the neighbor ran over one with a lawn mower, my dad found 3 under a large rock, and Ive heard from multiple sources there is a spot you can go all summer long and find them. IMO most of their studies aint worth the money

And with the wolves, I wouldnt let one around my farm! if the city folk like them release them in the big cities!!! My bull guy had a beef calf killed by a wolf this year. he said the DNR was suppose to reimburse him but they were only expected to pay newborn calf price which means he lost a lot of money on it. and last I spoke with him he was still waiting for a check. Shoot shovel and shutup

Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6689955
12/11/19 11:26 AM
12/11/19 11:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
An interesting article that outlines some of the funding that Rally discussed. Special note to this section. The amount Idaho spends for monitoring wolves has been cut by roughly 90 percent since wolves have been delisted and most federal monitoring requirements have expired. “But it’s still really expensive and not very useful for management,” Hayden said."

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/mar/06/gray-wolf-recovery-projects-continue-to-drain-mill/


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin and Wolves ... [Re: Actor] #6690730
12/12/19 01:20 AM
12/12/19 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
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Rally Offline
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Rally  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
Osky,
You should read the article Wimarshrat linked. Everybody should, to get an idea what these wolf programs really cost.


Keep your boots dry
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