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Interesting red fox article in Trappers World #6705366
12/25/19 10:55 AM
12/25/19 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,712
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline OP
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,712
Goldsboro, North Carolina
I was reading the January/February issue of Trappers World and came across an article titled "Urine Use For Red Fox At Dirthole Sets" by John Murray. The thing that struck me about the article is that dad had written about the same observations of red fox behavior years ago. The author of the article cites a recent canine urine research project undertaken by J. David Henry, a professor in the department of biology at the University of Calgary. The behavior that dad wrote about, and was cited in the study, concerned the red fox marking of food caches.
Dad spent many hours watching foxes with a spotting scope to study their behavior. Many of his observations are brought out in a story he wrote about a family of red foxes. This story has never finished and never published. http://www.trapperman.com/trapperman/TTdadsfoxstory.html

Anyway, I found the article interesting in that it brought out what dad had observed and written about many years ago.



Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6705385
12/25/19 11:01 AM
12/25/19 11:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,436
Otsego, MI 62
K
K-zoo Offline
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K-zoo  Offline
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Posts: 2,436
Otsego, MI 62
I read that article yesterday. Seems to go against everything most trappers have been doing for as long as I can remember. Interesting for sure.


Member NTA, MTPCA, FTA, NRA, MUCC
2Cor. 5:17
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6705392
12/25/19 11:04 AM
12/25/19 11:04 AM
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Posts: 18,109
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
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Posts: 18,109
Wisconsin
I didn't read the article but I have watched fox bury food and I never noticed where they urinated on the cache. Why bring attention to a food cache.
I also watched a flick about red fox and they did most of the food burying with their nose.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6705402
12/25/19 11:12 AM
12/25/19 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,058
SW PA
W
white marlin Offline
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white marlin  Offline
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SW PA
Paul,

I remember reading your Dad's observations of that very aspect of fox behavior years ago...was it in his Land Sets and Trapping Techniques book?

Last edited by white marlin; 12/25/19 11:14 AM.

"We didn't come all the way out here just to 'feel them on the line.' "
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6705491
12/25/19 11:59 AM
12/25/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,772
SEPA
L
Lugnut Online content
trapper
Lugnut  Online Content
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Posts: 11,772
SEPA
I just received my Trapper's World, haven't had a chance to crack it open yet. It sounds like I have some interesting reading when I do.

Also, thanks for the link to your dad's Fox Story. A quick preview and I think it will be required reading a a guy like me that is primarily a red fox trapper.


Eh...wot?

Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6705953
12/25/19 08:15 PM
12/25/19 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,520
N.W. Iowa
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Tactical.20 Offline
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Tactical.20  Offline
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N.W. Iowa
I'll try to find it

Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706111
12/25/19 11:56 PM
12/25/19 11:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,785
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
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"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706117
12/26/19 12:50 AM
12/26/19 12:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,712
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline OP
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,712
Goldsboro, North Carolina
He wrote about it more than once. I've had folks poo his observations on this, but I always knew it was something I could take to the bank. He didn't just write stuff to write it. He was very careful to write about what he knew and experienced. There really was no theory only basis to his conclusions. If he didn't see it, experience it, it was something to consider, but not to write about being so.

A well known trapper somewhere in Indiana poo-pood it, but that's probably because it wasn't his discovery. Only his info is valid in the trapping world.

I can see where urine alone plays a large part in this study, but if you add lure to a dirt hole set with urine, it opens up a whole new field.



Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706142
12/26/19 04:47 AM
12/26/19 04:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,785
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
My take away is the dirt hole set is more about what you leave at the set other than just the hole.


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706175
12/26/19 06:31 AM
12/26/19 06:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,779
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
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wetdog  Offline
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perry co.Pa
I have noticed if I put pee on the backing at a d/hole my hind leg catch rate goes up. I noticed it a lot more when I started using bladder pee. I have since moved my pee 8-10 feet away and I'm pleased with the results.
My theory is, they mark the intruder pee before going for the food or lure.
Just my observation

Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706186
12/26/19 06:42 AM
12/26/19 06:42 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,125
mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Online content
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Steven 49er  Online Content
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mn north of blakely
He is in the pee business and he has caught probably over 10,000 fox lifetime.

We all have our own observations, it's hard to argue with success even if someone else's success involves methods that are contradictory to our own. Bob's problem is he can't or won't just agree to disagree lol.

Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706194
12/26/19 07:01 AM
12/26/19 07:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,785
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
If a K9 digs at the hole to get food itís a dirt hole set.

If it digs to get gland lure out to roll and rub itís a scent hole.

Keeping in mind that urine used most of the time is collected from multiple animals, a K9 stopping by to urinate where everybody else has, the set becomes ďa toilet holeĒ set. lol


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706251
12/26/19 08:45 AM
12/26/19 08:45 AM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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I catch more animals at a dirt hole or bait hole or whatever you want to call it when I use urine.

A behavior dogs and coyotes both have in common is peeing on food or toys or water buckets all three. You don't see it in dogs that are house broke but you certainly do dogs that live outside. I never kept a fox so no clue if they do the same thing or not.

I don't think fox or coyotes either one can reason. They don't know that if 2X=Y then Y/2=X. I think urine is a loud smell that carries on air currents real well and animals want to find its source. Put their nose right on it. When they get there, and there is also a bait hole, they don't conclude that "Fred didn't do this he never pee's when he stash's food". They just have two different things that interest them.

I never for a second doubted what Charlie Dobbins wrote. Anyway what I typed above is my THEORY and it works for me.

I KNOW that there is a lot of fake pee being sold. That stuff will definitely hurt your catch.

I KNOW too that its very possible to make huge catches without using any pee at all.


ban gun free zones
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706819
12/26/19 08:10 PM
12/26/19 08:10 PM
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Posts: 212
Indiana
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fishnhunts Offline
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fishnhunts  Offline
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Indiana
Just finished reading the your dad's fox story! What an awesome story. It's a shame he was unable to complete it but I really enjoyed it anyway. Have you ever considered completing the story? That's the kind of book I can get behind reading!! His ability to capture the story from the fox, farmer, and trapper point of view made for a great read and was very interesting. Thanks for sharing, I'm sure I will be seeking out more of his writings.

Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706838
12/26/19 08:24 PM
12/26/19 08:24 PM
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CT
Big George W Offline
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CT
Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
I was reading the January/February issue of Trappers World and came across an article titled "Urine Use For Red Fox At Dirthole Sets" by John Murray. The thing that struck me about the article is that dad had written about the same observations of red fox behavior years ago. The author of the article cites a recent canine urine research project undertaken by J. David Henry, a professor in the department of biology at the University of Calgary. The behavior that dad wrote about, and was cited in the study, concerned the red fox marking of food caches.
Dad spent many hours watching foxes with a spotting scope to study their behavior. Many of his observations are brought out in a story he wrote about a family of red foxes. This story has never finished and never published. http://www.trapperman.com/trapperman/TTdadsfoxstory.html

Anyway, I found the article interesting in that it brought out what dad had observed and written about many years ago.


Paul, thank you so much for posting this, I got the Trappers World issue as well, just have not had time to read it.
Thanks for publishing the link for your dads unfinished story as well, I'll read that soon as well......
Cheers


Respect,
Big George Waters + Loki the Dog.....
East Derby CT
CTA [life member], NTA, FTA, FBU
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6706912
12/26/19 09:07 PM
12/26/19 09:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,212
Monroeville NJ
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Jonesie Online content
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Jonesie  Online Content
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Monroeville NJ
I have a video but can't get it posted on here. I am putting bait down in a hole with a tube. I am working the greys to go into buried DP traps. In the video, I have urine on a stick next to the hole and a lure on a stick on the other side of the hole. The fox is rubbing on the ground then urinates next to the hole and then yanks the tube out of the ground the video ends on the trail cam as it is digging the bait out. I have seen at every spot I am doing this when I come back there seems to be a spot they urinate next to the hole and the bait and tubes are pulled out. I am setting the DP traps tomorrow and putting cameras up so maybe I will get more video of this behavior.


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Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6707858
12/27/19 07:47 PM
12/27/19 07:47 PM
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NC
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Greymule Offline
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NC
Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
I was reading the January/February issue of Trappers World and came across an article titled "Urine Use For Red Fox At Dirthole Sets" by John Murray. The thing that struck me about the article is that dad had written about the same observations of red fox behavior years ago. The author of the article cites a recent canine urine research project undertaken by J. David Henry, a professor in the department of biology at the University of Calgary. The behavior that dad wrote about, and was cited in the study, concerned the red fox marking of food caches.
Dad spent many hours watching foxes with a spotting scope to study their behavior. Many of his observations are brought out in a story he wrote about a family of red foxes. This story has never finished and never published. http://www.trapperman.com/trapperman/TTdadsfoxstory.html

Anyway, I found the article interesting in that it brought out what dad had observed and written about many years ago.


I always enjoy reading anything Mr. Charles Dobbins had written. I think that I learn something from his words and videos
that I might never have learned on my own. In my opinion. his trapping skills were legendary.

Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Jonesie] #6708219
12/28/19 06:22 AM
12/28/19 06:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,785
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Jonesie
I have a video but can't get it posted on here. I am putting bait down in a hole with a tube. I am working the greys to go into buried DP traps. In the video, I have urine on a stick next to the hole and a lure on a stick on the other side of the hole. The fox is rubbing on the ground then urinates next to the hole and then yanks the tube out of the ground the video ends on the trail cam as it is digging the bait out. I have seen at every spot I am doing this when I come back there seems to be a spot they urinate next to the hole and the bait and tubes are pulled out. I am setting the DP traps tomorrow and putting cameras up so maybe I will get more video of this behavior.


Iím asking because I trap for them differently. Is how a grey fox responds equal to what a red will do?


"Forgiveness".......because there is no Time Machine.

-Goofy-
Re: Interesting red fox article in Trappers World [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6708421
12/28/19 10:44 AM
12/28/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,763
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper Offline
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Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
A grey fox and a red fox are basically different animals from different worlds, grey's act move like cats. A grey will respond to ANYTHING!

My red fox experience is very limited but from what ive seen of them they're about on the same scale as coons as far as intelligence, lol.

Remember reading Charlie's writing on the subject long ago as well as his thoughts on a lot of things, never found what he said not to be
true and even today his teaching's are more valuable than 90 percent of the regurgitated crap out there now. Id say he has stood the test
of time, not many can say that. Im older now with more miles on me so my question's for him would be more complex than they were decade's
ago, what id give to have just one more sit down with him. Talking with him was as enjoyable as reading his writing's. He LOVED to share what
he knew with whoever would listen.

I use very little urine by the way, I don't see how it would hurt a set I just have a different way of trapping that works for me.


Not my circus, not my clowns.
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