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Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Boco] #6719134
01/07/20 06:51 AM
01/07/20 06:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 221
Labrador, Canada
C
crosspatch Offline
trapper
crosspatch  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 221
Labrador, Canada
Originally Posted by Boco
Well the simple answer is,the hotter and dryer it is the faster and more intense and hotter the fire is and more difficult to control,let alone extinguish.
I was at a bad fire once in 95 or 96 in a dry jackpine bush.Jackpine grows on the eskers and moraines here-high ground well drained sand.Very low FFMC and the jackpines are full of terpines and the ground is covered in dry needles.That fire took off and all we could do was get out of the way,a bulldozer and several other vehicles were burnt,I have never seen a fire that intense before or since.large jackpines were actually exploding.
There was nothing could be done until conditions improved-here that means cool nights or a rainfall.That fire jumped the Abitibi River at Otter rapids it is almost a quarter mile across above the dam where it jumped,they had to let it burn.That proved to me what hot and dry means when it comes to fighting fires(or not fighting fires).


Over a 30 year period spent plenty of time on forest fires here too - everything from ground grunt on up to in charge of 100 men and 10 -12 tankers/bombers and choppers. Boco knows what he is talking about. We both been there done that back in the day.

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719150
01/07/20 07:14 AM
01/07/20 07:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,972
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,972
Eastern Shore of Maryland
When I first started trapping 40 years ago if you caught a dozen red foxes you had a great season and you were nearly a legend. That can be accomplished now in 4 days with a dozen traps.

The climate is definitely changing. whistle

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 01/07/20 07:20 AM.


-Goofy-
Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719151
01/07/20 07:15 AM
01/07/20 07:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,461
Fairbanks, Alaska
Pete in Frbks Offline
trapper
Pete in Frbks  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,461
Fairbanks, Alaska
Climate issues notwithstanding, a huge part of the problem in much of Australia is fuel (grass, brush, trees.) buildup. Many of the prescribed fire (fuel reduction projects) get torpedoed by the plethora of Green groups that are overpopulating the urban portions of the Australian continent. (Ironically, the same whack jobs who like to blame everything on climate change!)

"Rate of spread" and "resistance to control" are NOT necessarily a function of long term environmental conditions. They are more often a function of weather, not climate. For example, resistance to control can also be a function of lots of downed timber (large fuels) on the ground, restricting firefighter movement...

FFMC (Fine Fuel Moisture Content under the Canadian Fire Danger Rating System) is definitely not an function of climate. It is a function of the weather in the immediate area over the past 12-24 hours. Geesh Boco....

I've worked in fire management for over 50 years myself. I have also fought fire in Australia (and some other countries.)

Political junkies are always trying to find ways to blame "climate change" for everything from wildland fires to athlete's foot and bad breath.... give it a rest!

Pete

Last edited by Pete in Frbks; 01/07/20 07:19 AM.
Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719157
01/07/20 07:18 AM
01/07/20 07:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,010
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,010
Marion Kansas
When in history has the climate not been changing

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Yes sir] #6719162
01/07/20 07:23 AM
01/07/20 07:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,721
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,721
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by Yes sir
When in history has the climate not been changing

Exactly. That's why they, for the most part, gave up on the "global warming" farce. That has been proven bunk for years now although it still comes up with the extremists. They switched to climate change because you can blame it for everything and it is happening, has always happened and will always happen as long as we have an atmosphere. However, it is a natural occurrence and man has nothing to do with it no matter what the self important, self absorbed lefties try to tell you.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719172
01/07/20 07:33 AM
01/07/20 07:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,245
NWT
Ryan McLeod Offline
trapper
Ryan McLeod  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,245
NWT
Orville redenbacher time

3C6B406C-E48B-490B-88D4-5DE21FAE70AD.jpeg

If you take care of the land the land will take care of you
Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719197
01/07/20 08:13 AM
01/07/20 08:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,100
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,100
perry co.Pa
Can I have extra butter please?

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719206
01/07/20 08:17 AM
01/07/20 08:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,346
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,346
meadowview, Virginia
Boco and Finister, I don't know why you are arguing about what is already answered in the article. The fires are more difficult to control because
Quote
New environmental policies that restrict “prescribed burning,” where land owners burn off flammable ground cover in cooler months in a controlled manner so it doesn’t contribute to bushfires, have also exacerbated the problem.


This answers something I wondered about given the experience in recent decades in the American west, specifically the fires in and around Yellowstone. Man's interference by controlling naturally occurring fires for a century or more resulted in a build up of fuel on the forest floor thereby exacerbating the fire situation until it could not be controlled.

BTW, I do not deny that the climate is changing, it is always changing and will always continue to change so long as the planet exists. I am however, highly skeptical of the conclusions in scientific studies that man is the cause or even a primary contributor. When there is a strong financial incentive to reach a particular conclusion (because it means more grant money for further studies), scientific objectivity is lost.

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Yes sir] #6719231
01/07/20 08:35 AM
01/07/20 08:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 34,122
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 34,122
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Yes sir
When in history has the climate not been changing

Exactly...

CYCLES.... There have been a few.


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719232
01/07/20 08:39 AM
01/07/20 08:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,162
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content
trapper
Posco  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,162
Maine, Aroostook
The thing about climate change is, no matter what change occurs, the climateers can point to it and claim they're right. They are relentless.

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719239
01/07/20 08:49 AM
01/07/20 08:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
SE Minn
R
Rat Masterson Offline
trapper
Rat Masterson  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
SE Minn
Climate change, follow the money.

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Mark June] #6719254
01/07/20 09:04 AM
01/07/20 09:04 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,741
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,741
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Mark June
We think it's hot now, I wonder what it was like in the years of active volcano activity. Green house gases + volcanic gases = I would have needed more shade trees shocked


They need to put diapers on the volcano's.
Big welding helmet on those solar flares.

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719257
01/07/20 09:07 AM
01/07/20 09:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,100
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,100
perry co.Pa
Just Google, grand solar minimum
These climate nut jobs just want power and control over everyone.
If it were real, climate experts would be leading the way
Not a 16 year old mentality ill child and Hollywood
Wake up

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: danny clifton] #6719262
01/07/20 09:12 AM
01/07/20 09:12 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,741
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,741
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by danny clifton
i seriously doubt a bird is smart enough to use fire


I don't think anyone implied they was doing it in any organized strategy. If they found a pretty ember they liked they would probably go to unburned land where they could land rather than to land that was burned already.

If you had a couple of foxes tied together and they had fire between them by any means, they would naturally go to brush, I would think.

Last edited by Foxpaw; 01/07/20 09:34 AM.
Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719287
01/07/20 09:41 AM
01/07/20 09:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
Big George W Offline
trapper
Big George W  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
I have distant cousins in Australia, I suppose I could ask and see what they think of all this, as I've always felt that there's nothing like going directly to the people living in the country one wonders about.

Here in highly toxic over crowded CT, the seasons have seem to have shifted some, like March used to be a month where things started to moderate, now it's our coldest month, with lots of single digit days and teens as well.

September used to be a time when you could really feel the fall in the air, now September tends to be boiling hot, even early October 90s are no longer unusual.

The Long Island Sound, when I first got into free-diving - you needed at least a 3/4 wet suit, now it's no longer necessary because of water temps in the 80s towards the middle and end of summer.

As for those chicken sized seagulls, yes... even here in the drug and violence stricken lower Naugatuck Valley, sea gulls with wing spans of 3 feet or better can be seen raiding the dumpsters of all the fast food joints, so it's not just the nuke plants here [which i had forgotten about !!] where these massive birds exist.

EVen more astonishing is how far inland they now reside, again thanks to the garbage that is strewn about everywhere one looks...............

All the shorebirds use that method of picking things up and dropping them.
On occasion Raptors will do the same with small mammals.

I suppose there is truth to a lack of controlled burns being the cause of these fires going out of control, but I feel the drought like conditions combined with high winds will play an even great role.

CT is on a kick where all trees are being cut down if they are 100 feet near a road or power lines [*ok, maybe not a 100 feet but it sure seems like it]
*Actually, supposedly CT is leaning towards the idea that folks will be given tax breaks if they cut down all the trees on their properties - as CT is becoming an anti tree/anti natural vegetation state.... only chemically treated lawns will be allowed in the future with new community developments [*there is truth to that]

So, I guess that's part of why we never have brush fires anymore like we used to, although we still get smaller ones all the time [leaves, etc...] from people throwing cig's out the windows of their cars, which I believed is encouraged in this glorious state.
So, if there's no leaves, then no brush fires - that's the logic here.

A while back, while dreaming of making it out of this rotten place I saw a property in the U.P. of Michigan, that I think was either 40 or 80 acres of land with a nice off the grid cabin.
Maybe it was 40 acres with a cabin for $80,000.... BUT here's what really got me excited: completely surrounded by 160,000 acres of green, lush state forest.

Only way in or out is via small Jeep or ATV

Now if that's not heaven, I don't know what it.

Of course, if someone decided to torch that, I imagine it could turn to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) real fast too - but those forests looked super green to me which meant good rainfall.

Off topic, but I often wonder how many of these fires in California are diliberately being set for the sake of getting the home owners out.

I'll have to research what happens to the the burned out wilderness - are the homes rebuilt - or it s the seized by the US government for God knows what......
That would be a very extreme but very effective form of eminent domain !!

But seriously - in CT everything is drying up in the wooded areas.

We get rain - but all at once - like 5 inches in a couple of hours, or maybe 12 inches over 4 days - then nothing for like 20 days, then some crazy amount of heavy rain in a couple of hours...
All this rain just runs off as the ground is so dry it's like concrete, so it does no good anyway.....

The situation in Australia seems to get worse each and every year though, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

yes, the climate is changing as it has throughout history - but I'm curious what the effects will be this time around.


Respect,
Big George + Loki the Dog.....
East Derby, CT
CTA [life member], NTA, FTA, FBU
Connecticut Republican Party
Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719289
01/07/20 09:45 AM
01/07/20 09:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,162
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content
trapper
Posco  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,162
Maine, Aroostook
I wish these people were as concerned with the fiscal mess they're leaving to their posterity as they were what type of planet they'll get to inhabit. They act as though they are going to live forever. I think they are an inherently selfish bunch.

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Rat Masterson] #6719372
01/07/20 11:13 AM
01/07/20 11:13 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 631
N/E Il. NOT Chicago!!
S
squacks Offline
trapper
squacks  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 631
N/E Il. NOT Chicago!!
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Climate change, follow the money.


Yes. I smell a tax in there and more siphoning off of working peoples money. Carbon tax..anyone?
I guess we could start with something that actually produces carbon every day for decades. If we need to burn coal then we should at least get some use from the btu's.

"Thousands of coal fires are reported to be burning in at least 22 countries on every continent except Antarctica. In the U.S., more than 100 underground fires are burning in at least nine states, including Colorado, Kentucky, Maryland, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wyoming."

Add Illinois to that list. I see them in winter smoking up through the ground.

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: KeithC] #6719387
01/07/20 11:24 AM
01/07/20 11:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,166
Central Texas
C
Chancey Offline
trapper
Chancey  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,166
Central Texas
Originally Posted by KeithC
In Australia, birds of prey in the raptor family, namely black kites, whistling kites and a species of falcon have all been witnessed carrying burning embers and dropping them to spread and create fires to drive their prey, making the prey easier to catch. Black kites are the most common bird of prey in Australia and there are huge numbers of the arsonist birds.

Keith



I saw an article about about that last year Keith. I tried finding it online and sure enough it was exactly a year ago.....January 2018. Chancey

https://www.sciencealert.com/birds-...riting-history-fire-use-firehawk-raptors

Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719393
01/07/20 11:34 AM
01/07/20 11:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,721
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,721
Fredonia, PA.
Hey Danny, I found this video. Actually there is quite a bit of information about this. No one has actually ever caught these birds in the act on film. Therefore, I would agree there is no conclusive proof. However, I believe it is not only possible but likely. That's just my opinion. Anyway, this is interesting.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: Climate Change PROOF! Australia [Re: Finster] #6719395
01/07/20 11:36 AM
01/07/20 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,756
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,756
Central Oregon
Yep , stupid environmental policies are a major cause for California burning up the last few years

Man made global warming is a farse

Man made stupidity is real


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