However, the best handgun penetration (15, 12.25 and 10.25 inches) came from the 3-inch barrel of a standard sized Judge. To meet FBI standards, a projectile needs to produce a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistic gel. Of the seven guns used in this limited gel test (one shot per block per gun), two had no projectiles reach 12 inches, five had one slug or ball hit or pass the 12-inch mark, three guns had two projectiles make the grade, but only one gun, the shotgun, pushed all three projectiles past 12 inches.

Those slugs or balls that satisfied the FBI’s 12-inch minimum distance requirements created what could be considered primary wound channels. The secondary wound channels caused by the other projectiles showed penetration distances ranging from 6 to 11.5 inches in depth. Although these secondary wound tracks don't meet the FBI grade, having two perforations at these depths added to the primary impact is nothing to laugh at.

Over penetration would be my biggest worry with any weapon, bullet make up or shot size should be considered. The noise part may be loud but it works for you really as that blast is disorientating and you control it.

I’d take a shotgun in most cases with fine shot, under 10 feet it works lIke a slug but across the room will penetrate less then a slug or most bullets. If noise is a real problem get a suppressor then but I believe it’s a advantage for the bad guy.

I will have a suppressor by next year for my AR and a .22 pistol.

I would probably rather have a bolt action 22 loaded with the same ammo shoot squirrels and such with than a 44 mag in a hall way.

you know a hit with a 22 is much better than a miss with a 44 , well it is mostly true and it doesn't incapacitate you to fire in the house.

pistols are loud inside , having shot one no ears once from inside a car the shorter the barrel the louder they are. but not incapacitating

in an ideal world , well I guess in an ideal world we wouldn't be talking about shooting drunk high violent offenders in our homes

so in preparing for a less than ideal world a night side bag or vest that had

-a white flashlight kept with good batteries
-electronic hearing protection - if you haven't used this you should try , you can hear the floor creak in the next room while it is amplifying as well as whispers but it cuts out for gun shots
-a 9mm handgun with light and 3 magazines with personal defense ammunition
-#4 buckshot 16 rounds or spare mag for AR
- a long gun an ar15 with magazine and fragmenting ammo like 55gr v-max with a light and spare mag in the vest or 18 inch barrel shotgun with a light mounted that has some ammunition on it side saddle or stock sleeve
- 2 tourniquets , 3 Israeli bandages and a packet of quick clot


sure a suppressed gun would be ideal , how about an 8 inch barrel 9mm AR carbine running 124gr hst in 30 round mags ,with a nice big suppressor and light the reality is that will run you almost 2K about 800 for the gun , 800 for the suppressor and 2 hundred in tax stamps light, mags , ect..
how about a suppressed 300blk with a 10 inch barrel and 30 round mags running a frangible bullet might be able to build this for under 1500

as the OPs coworker found out 44 mag bullets are typically for hunting and in hunting they make an exit wound and typically take more than 3-4 inches of meat to expand

now it stopped the fight from the sounds of it so that is a win even if it came with negatives.

first thing is learn to fight with whatever you have , 44spl from the same gun might have equally as effective as he obviously already had the gun a different box of ammo might have not have incapacitated him the same way allowing him to make a follow up shot or deal with police better.

there are argument for an against hand and long guns

long guns typically need 2 hands so opening doors ect is more difficult hand guns well a lot of people don't shoot them well

long guns should have a sling single or two point what ever works best for you but a way for you to go hands free and retain your gun

likewise handguns should also have a way to go hands free like a holster this may not be as easy as a shotgun with a sling

short shot guns and carbine length rifles have a lot going for them the gun , ammo ,sling and light can all be one package so that you can easily grab it in your birthday suit and go , heck if you hung your electric ear pro over the gun you could put them on and go.

shot guns and AR's are cheap now you can get a AR or shotgun for under 400 shotguns even a little less 250 or so

can you keep it loaded? some can not it has to stay unloaded for concerns of kids or at least the chamber needs to stay unloaded having removable magazines is a fast way to get a supply of ammo in the gun fast

life is life and most of us probably can't afford to drop 2K on a HD gun we hope to never have to use , keeping your carry gun in a holster bed side taking it off when you undress and having a light handy besides is probably a really good compromise. 9 , 40 , 45 ammo on center mass hits generally does not leave the body and if it does it is very much reduced in energy. train to make hits , see what your shooting at with a light.

2 is one and one is none if you have the shotgun or rifle or your wife has her sidearm learn to be a team and deploy both solution , maybe your wife stays in the bed room and makes the 911 call while you go to get the kids either to stay with them or bring them to your room.

probably the lowest cost most effective way to buy time and reduce potential need for force , Keep the Dead bolt locked , My brother gave me a hard time when he got locked out at Christmas my house and my parents house the outer door has the combination push button dead bolt , so you can go for a walk or whatever and not need to bring the house key great when you have kids getting off the buss they don't have to remember a key and no key to loose both our houses have a second door in my case my back porch became the mud room it is a heated finished room now , my parents have a sun room where there porch used to be also heated finished room but the original house door and dead bolt also still in place.
my kids have been trained to turn the dead bolt when they walk in the door , they will find it locked when they get off the buss even if I am home because I will be busy in my office across the house they unlock then come in and lock. so they walked in the door at grandmas and turned the lock out of habit. I had to explain to him why my kids were trained to lock the door behind them.

I live in a small town in rural Wisconsin but we had a crazy lady from Debuque in the county 2 years ago she would let herself into a house and start running a bath , people would find her when they wondered why the water was running the first called 911 and reported it but she had left before the sheriff could get there the second about an hour later same thing found her running a bath , she gave the story that this was her friends house and she was running bath the police (in my town about 12 blocks away) got there this time but hadn't yet heard about her so let her go , they got her on the other side of the county a day later chasing a young girl with her car she thought the girl was her friend she got herself a 72 hour physc hold as I understand it.
in small town Rural WI locking doors when your home is not very common , but that was a crazy lady who was non violent , whats to say next time it is going to be non violent if your town no matter how small it is has a highway of any size you have drugs going through your town and not just pot, Meth , Heroin , coke , phentinol , who know what all they have these days.
there were a rash of burglaries a few summers ago a pair if teens would walk up to houses on a nice day many the main door was open and the screen door the only door they would walk in and grab wallets , purses and easy to grab valuables as they walked from front door to back door and most of the time the home owner was home up or down stairs and heard the back door close as they were leaving 30-40 seconds total time in house they caught the 2 eventually but they hit a bunch of houses oh if they walked up to the house and some one was there near the front door they said have you seen my dog , it got away it is a lab selling their story for why they were walking around through yards.

so keep those doors locked , it buys time.

If your friend would have used a little 20ga pump with #7 shot or smaller, the intruder wouldn’t have dragged himself from anywhere. I keep my little turkey gun (Remington Youth 20) loaded with #9 TSS. Figure the max distance in an average home with be less than 15 yards or so...45ft. Even lead birdshot will blow a hole in a hog that you can stick your fist through at that distance and I’ve killed hogs at 30 yards with that gun and TSS #9’s. It will be loud and it will be messy, but the intruder will be down for the count. Once down a .22 can completely end the threat if the twitching doesn’t stop.

your talking single projectile or 3 ball buck shot , and not bird shot

I would be interested in seeing this gel test the tests I saw with common buck , slug and shot from a 3 inch judge did not look good and the gun performed much better with 45Lc which gets the question wouldn't a lighter easier to carry 45acp revolver give better results or a 45acp semi auto pistol.

Sawed off 12 ga. with 3" 4 buck..

remember reading a magazine about this years ago. they recommended a 44 mag revolver loaded with a shot cup with brazing rods cut to length. they wanted a load that would not penetrate 4 layers of sheetrock, but would go thru a winter jacket.

I had a drunk enter my door and was trying to get into the inside door, we were at close when I open the inside door and pointed a 410 over and under and pulled back the hammer. The first thing out of his mouth was, "Don't shoot me - Don't shoot me. Looking back I wish I had a Judge revolver. Much easier to handle, less likely to have the person try and take it away from me, just easier to handle.
JMO.

** Stop putting off getting registered to Vote. **

I wouldn't trust any gun to be a one shot stop , the stats don't even show shotguns and rifles as one shot stop 100%

if hit in the same arm with 7 1/2 vs the 44 mag the results could have been very much the same big ugly flesh wound and blood but may well still have drug himself , you can shoot a buck with a 308 or 12 ga slug int he "boiler room" get perfect expansion and they run 50 yards.

their was a stake out squad in the late 70s in NY one of the officers was running slugs from his shotgun a center mass hit on a robber the guys hands dropped to his side he looked at him the cop shot him again and the guy stayed on his feet walked over to the door to run and collapsed at the door dead . no hand gun or shotgun is a guarantee of an instant out.


I have a co-worker who was shot with a load of #6 12ga by his room mate about 30 years ago across the room distance , he is 50 now and still very much alive , he was shot in the gut and they had to re-route his stomach for a while and he had a feeding tube but he lived and leads and active life he did just have to give up adult recreational league foot ball on his 3rd broken limb.

I was at friends he had a coon in the corn crib i grabbed his 20 ga pump and he grabbed his 22 from the barn and we went after it , I shot it 3 times with 7 1/2 shot from about 30 feet watched the pattern in the fur it knocked it over it got right back up 3 shots yes that ammo was low brass trap loads because that is what was cheap and he bought , yes it had been siting in the barn for years , but the recoil didn't feel overly weak 3 rounds in a raccoon and relativity short distance it should have had big 1 inch holes inches into it by what most people think a shotgun at close range will do but it didn't.

maybe your specific #9 shot round is vastly different I won't argue it isn't but I challenge you to shoot your next worthless mangy fur animal or worthless non prime nuisance coon from 45 feet with your #9 and see how it works.

also you can not shoot some one once the threat is ended , you are not shooting to kill you are shooting to stop the threat , so no 22 head shots when they are on the ground incapacitated , that won't end well with you and the jury.

Our carry pistols are the first line of defense in the home but the AR is readily available. I did a lot of research before coming to this conclusion but with Hornady critical defense (designed for work in a building)or even V-max wont penetrate two layers of Sheetrock, yet still if put on target will do its job. Yes is will be loud. But so is a pistol or shotgun. Most guys I know have a shotgun by the bed. But what’s your wife gunna do with your 12ga? Yes, I know there’s guys with shotguns built self defense in mind and there are women that can really sling around a shotgun, but I think that’s the minority. Even with her 20ga my wife would be more proficient with the AR. It’s smaller, less recoil, red dot, flash light. And in an extreme instance a reload is quicker.

your talking single projectile or 3 ball buck shot , and not bird shot

I would be interested in seeing this gel test the tests I saw with common buck , slug and shot from a 3 inch judge did not look good and the gun performed much better with 45Lc which gets the question wouldn't a lighter easier to carry 45acp revolver give better results or a 45acp semi auto pistol.[/quote]

This is what I leave for the wife, in the 3" barreled Judge. Winchester USA PDX1 .410 3" 4 Disc/16 Plated BB. Perfect for people that don't play with guns all the time. JMHO

I shot my buddies ar 9mm pistol with 9" barrel inside the gun shop he worked at. I can say it was crazy loud even with high end ear muffs on. Flash forward a couple of months we shot it at the outside range and the flash was about a 3' ball. I couldn't imagine firing that in a hallway.

Firing any gun inside tight quarters is always going to increase decibels

Here's what I want for home defense. I'll mount it on my roof in a bell tower

I work some night shifts so i want my wife safe, so she has a 357 pistol on the night stand and a sawed off 12ga. In the corner . And our dog sleeps on her side of the bed.

You fire that in the house and you aint going to be able to clean up the mess afterwards.

I find it amazing no one has mentioned a 22 mag. Put a v-max thru some scum's arm and belly . Or treat him like a deer, neck shot see what happens. Plus you can hear when you call 911 and they ask you a question...........

Green pete To your point . Several years ago here a man and his exwife were fighting . She pulled up to his house got out with a hand gun and started shooting. He shot her once with a 12 gauge slug and basiclly blew her arm off. So far he was justified . BUT as she lay there bleeding out he walked up and put one thru her head. The courts convicted him of manslaughter because the threat was gone according to eye witnesses....

I am sure you have let her shoot it and get used to the recoil. But my wife doesn't shoot much so I got a 380 revolver . POINT AND PULL. in one night stand Have a 22 mag in the dresser and another 22 mag in garage she pulls into right beside the door.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1008265607334280760


I got a box of these my buddies Parents own the plant that makes them...

9 mm