Can't do that. If I get seen shooting factory ammo, I'll never hear the last of it


I do have the LFR powder on hand though and can pick up some of those bummers as well, even though I am not keen on the thought of shooting plastic tipped bullets through an old classic like that. Not because of the tube mag as they are safe for that but because of ..... well because.

I have watched my buddy kill a bull moose and kill deer at unbelievable distances with his Marlin 30-30 and the cheap Federal loads. That was when he only shot 30-30 and shot it a lot at varied distances. Sometimes took more than one shot,but he always got his game.

it may depend on the bullet

with the two I choose for my numbers

the 150 had a 0.220bc @2300 fps to use your velocity = 874fpe 1620fps

the 170 had a 0.298bc @2100fps to use your velocity = 983fpe 1614fps

if you need 1600 fps for most hollow points to reliably open on many soft point bullets so 200 yards represents the outer range for both bullets . the 170 that started slow is still slower by 6 fps less than the normal deviation of shot to shot velocity but retains 11% more energy

but for 10 to 100 yards not really a hill of beans difference , I agree , only when your pushing the boundaries does it ever come into play.

and much of this is a kin to arguing 30-06 vs 308 .

Strange and I'm sure I'll probably get a beat down for this but Why bother reloading a 30-30 that is being shot out of a lever? Brush guns like the model 94 are meant more for quick snap shots. It's not meant or designed to drive tacks. To each his own but factory ammo is more than accurate enough for that type of rifle. Just my opinion so be gentle.

while it is more than accurate enough , reloading can represent a 50% cost savings over even the sale price 30-30 shelf ammo
30-30 brass is low enough pressure that you can get a lot of life out of it so your brass cost especially since not that many people reload it for your for mentioned reason. they just don't shoot enough of it to justify tooling.

in scuba's case I think it is more of a hobby , personal growth and experimentation as well as pride.

reloading by the way never saved me a dime on the wife's budget but I sure do shoot a lot more and shooting more , more good practice makes my shooting better and lets me push boundaries more as well as confidently make shots outside of normal.

my great uncle and hunting mentor never missed , I also never saw him take a shot longer than 30 yards with one exception in 28 years of hunting with him before he passed and that was a deer a cousin already had a shot in he hit it perfect telling me he could probably have taken a lot of 50 yard shots over the years.

I practiced a bunch I enjoyed shooting , now making those shots regularly that he never would have attempted have netted me a lot of meat.

you can expand your limits within reason through good practice and finding out where your actual limits are.

with iron sights 150's or 170's wont make any difference with a scope probably not much difference either I shoot a contender rifle 23 in. bull barrel /3x9 scope WW 150 and 170 grain PP up to 150 yds not enough difference to consider buying one over the other

Valid points. If that's what you're into have at it. Reloading is fun. I think you would wear out the barrel before you could justify the cost saving though.

i reload everything. i enjoy it.

Finster , you almost can not wear out a 30-30 barrel

I was taking with a gun smith that shot rifle silhouettes with a 30-30 he said he was well over 10K on the barrel and it showed lots of life left .

max pressure is 35Kpsi on a 30-30 lever much like a 22lr you don't wear out the barrel you abuse the barrel or over clean or damage the barrel cleaning it wrong

I'm with ya.

I use to reload for my 35 and it's nothing but a pain in the rear actually when factory is as cheap as it is for those calibers. That, and it was only used for hunting and a box lasted 10 years.

When you hand load you shoot more and become better with that rig.
Why trap? lol

I'd like to hear from Pete how not to clean a barrel, if he has the time.

Never shot 30s enough to consider loading, but, now have a contender, but it's single shot. Couple boxes last a good while through the "hand cannon".

Iload for everything I have minus the 22lr and 9mm. Because 22lr is a pain in the butt and expensive and i don't shoot either enough to make it worthwhile for me. Everything else I fill back up. I have put about 600 rounds through the 94 since I got it 4 month ago or so. Its fun to shoot and its my first lever gun, so I need the practice. In that same timeframe I have probably put north of 1000 rounds through my other guns as well ranging from the 223, 6.5 Grendel to 458 SOCOM and 454 Casull. Come to think of it, I have not had a 30-06 out to play for a while ..... I like to shoot and also to load my own. Both are hobbies to me and is better than watching TV on a rainy day. It appeals to the tinkerer in my I guess. And no you don't save any money. You shut shoot more. From a Practical standpoint, there is no need for me to even use the 94 as I have other rifles that will probably work better than the 30-30 but its just one of those things I want to do because .... well ... because I can.

I have a m94 manufactured in1911, labeled 30wcf. My favorite bullet was 170gr. Winchester Silvertips. Never shot deer or bear with it, but used it on almost everything else from moose to ptarmigan. I liked the bullet's penetration performance and the fact that they were-well crimped. Maybe this doesn't apply to your situation, but you got me on memory lane. The trigger on that old rifle is lovely, smooth and crisp. Way better than any modern factory trigger I've ever tried.

Scuba i say since you decided to become an American you owe it to yourself to use a classic American rifle and cartridge like a 94 in 30WCF once in a while. Its a 125 years old and still around. Not because it out performs everything else but because it still works good, is fun to shoot, and its a part of Americana. I defy you to find a western movie without a few lever guns in it.

I have extended the LOP by a couple of inches with a slip on pad and a leather ammo sleeve that I cut some leather spacers for. Now it fits me way better and comes up to the shoulder a lot nicer than before. Its nothing permanent and I can just take those things off and am back to the original. I am getting faster with it as well but still need more practice with it

I found the time , ice storm last night everything canceled I went out to get the mail and had to beat the ice off the gate latch to even get to the mail box. now it is snowing.

with the contender clean from the the breach

clean from the breach on anything you can , lever guns pull the bolt and clean from the breach.

clean with a coated or brass rod , you can buy a 22cal coated Tipton with brass end and really only need one rod for 22 to 35 cal

do not use steel or aluminum multi section rods these can damage your crown and cut into your rifling , Aluminum oxide is the abrasive on most sand paper , a dull oxidized aluminum rod has a very fine layer of aluminum oxide on it an abrasive.

if you can not clean from the breach use a muzzle guide a brass cone that centers the rod in the muzzle

on a 223 or 308 where you do get throat erosion and copper deposits running 55-60Kpsi 500 rounds is a reasonable place to do a full cleaning with copper removal once you have done barrel break in

honestly some competitive shooters on the 6.5 wonder cartridges are doing barrel break in then never clean again , but they go through a barrel in a year or three getting around 2K rounds

if you think of cleaning as a full deep cleaning vs a light maintenance sweep up

most of use go to the range or the back yard on a reasonably decent weather day and shoot some rounds that come from a clean box that are loaded with all non corrosive components modern ammunition.

we are left with some carbon fouling and water vapor from the combustion of the powder at 30-30 velocities of 2000-2300 fps and low pressures of 35Kpsi copper fouling is almost non existent it takes getting copper hot and under extreme pressure to make it solder to the steel

what I like to use for my regular maintenance is Hornady 1 shot and a bore snake , I spray some Hornady one shot cleaner and dry lube in the chamber with the barrel tipped down then put the end of the bore snake in and feed it through , then I stand the gun up and make sure to pull with the cord centered in the end of the barrel. run the snake 2-3 times

I don't do this after every time I shoot , but do at times like the end of deer season , if I hunted in the rain , whenever I feel like it might be getting a little dirty from powder fouling think of this like sweeping up and not a full strip and wax of the floor.

with the 4-H 22s I run the one-shot and bore snake before I put them back in the safe i don't have good data on how long I can go then without a deep clean because I haven't been doing it enough years and my last batch of 22 rifles are 2016 but so far no deep clean needed yet after the initial new cleaning. some of the older guns that were in the program before I started in 2010 I had to deep clean , I have no idea home many rounds were through them the SN# put them about 1997 in 2014 I had to deep clean them as the groups had turned into a pattern. your dedicated rim-fire guys who shoot a lot and keep good records might tell you every 5K rounds deep clean but that it will take 50-100 rounds to get your barrel barrel back to shooting the same groups. shoot groups and if it just won't shoot then it is time to deep clean.

obviously if you go for a roll in the mud , take a swim , hunt in such weather you might as well of taken a swim ect. what I would call extreme use , a full breakdown and cleaning is in order , this doesn't necessarily mean a deep clean of the copper from the bore.
this is like a full sweep and mop but not a strip and wax if you think of it in floor terms.

if you use corrosive ammo you need to clean and flush the bore after every use but most ammo today is not corrosive.

in my mind there are 3 levels of cleaning with thinking about it like a floor

1 "the sweep" / basic cleaning , a few drops or a spray and a bore snake

2 "the sweep&mop" / cleaning . a scrub but with a non copper removing solvent , like Hoppe's , the Hornady one shot can be used for this also, Ed's red or similar , this is about getting carbon out and field stripping the gun to clean and getting a corrosion inhibitor or oil on all the surfaces.

3 "the strip and wax" / clean and copper, this is the deep clean of the barrel removing the copper and getting everything clean and treated with a corrosion inhibitor.

I consider a wipe down every time I go to put a gun away with a rag and a spray of oneshot or oil if you prefer just normal maintenance and not really cleaning .


when I get a brand new gun I do a level 2 cleaning and lube wear points before the first shot.

then I go sight in 20-40 rounds typically

then clean copper , I consider this my barrel break in

(some people shoot one clean shoot one clean shoot 3 clean shoot 3 clean and so on , this is my understanding the method for fewest rounds to barrel break in procedure but if your manufacturer publishes one go ahead and use it)

then I will let it go 150 rounds and clean copper if I am getting a fair amount of copper I will make a note to do this again in around 300.
if I am not getting copper then about 500 rounds and time to do copper again.
223 is about the only think i get that much volume on although 308 is getting close.

when I get a New Used gun it depends what the barrel looks like but it is likely going to get a clean and lube like a new gun then off to the range. it may get a full clean and copper , had a 30-06 that came with a green bore it immediately got a full clean and copper. it shot great after the cleaning then I sold it to fund another project.

my 30-30 just doesn't see that much action if it were I would probably clean for copper at some point to see if I am even getting any worth worrying about if I am then check again in a number of rounds like 500.


there are clearly a number of ways to skin a cat , this is just my way it overlaps a lot on most best practices

I know a guy who can see the groups open up every 150 rounds and has to clean copper often to keep it shooting , he is also pushing close to 4Kfps with a 22-250.

heat and pressure = wear and copper

Some Balistol and a bore snake goes a long way IMHO. When I am done shooting for the day, I spray a good amount of Balistol into the barrel and breach ( On auto feeders like the AR, the bolt and that area gets a good squirt of it as well. Then I pack my gear together and get it all back to the workbench at home. Sometimes I'll have some coffee and a samich feed the dog and walk the cats. Ya know give it some time to soak. Then I pull a bore snake through it a few times .... last couple of times with a patch on the bristles. Done. The auto feeders get the bolt assembly stripped, cleaned and then I put the whole gibbons back together. If a new rifle shows fouling after a few rounds I lap the bore and try again. I rarely ever have to get to the stage of a deep cleaning that Pete is talking about.

Forgot to mention, in the 223, CFE223 powder has pretty much eliminated any copper fouling that I used to get. Not the cleanest burning powder by any means but it does cut down on the copper fouling a bunch.

Well my dad started reloading 30-30 just like others. 67 needed something to do. Heck had everything but the dies. Cost didn't come to play as they never shot more than 5 times a year between them. 30-30 ammo 12.99 box right before season. Just gave him a purpose on those days he tinkered with it. LOL . But we varmit hunted for over 40 years and NEVER got into the heavy bullet approach to anything. Until a few years ago ALL my deer were killed with a 6mm. My buddies that toted 30-06 and 300 mags where hunting cape buffalo lol. When you use a 222 ,220 swift a 22-250, or a 6mm to shoot the head off a ground hog out to 350 yards.Shot placement is the rule we lived by!!!! This was before all the modern turrent adjustments on todays scopes. It was hold over and KY windage. THOUSANDS of rounds and knowing were your weapon was hitting. Oh yea 87 grain bullet out of my 6mm was the heaviest bullet we owned for years !!!! Finally tried some 100 gr corelok just to get the brass. THAT WAS A DISASTER ...LOL

Cheers!