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80% Receivers = Firearms in PA #6731020
01/16/20 11:07 AM
01/16/20 11:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.
They snuck this one past me.

PA Attorney General Says 80% Receivers Are Firearms; NRA Outraged

Pennsylvania’s Attorney General Josh Shapiro issued an opinion declaring that 80% lower receivers are considered firearms and are therefore subject to all the relative laws of complete firearms. This comes in response to a request for advice from the Pensylvania State Police Commissioner, Colonel Robert Evanchick.
“My Office is taking the initial step of clarifying – through my official, legal opinion – that under Pennsylvania law, 80% receivers are firearms and can be treated, regulated, and enforced as such,” Shapiro said Monday. “The proliferation of these untraceable weapons strikes at the heart of our public safety, hindering law enforcement’s ability to protect our communities. Today, we take the first step in addressing this problem.”

What’s An 80% Receiver?
Eighty-percent receivers are readily available online from several distributors. They are partially milled blocks typically made from aluminum or polymer. Kits often include a jig to hold the billet steady and most even include bits for use in a drill press. AR-15 lowers and Glock lowers are the most common models.
To make a complete gun, the buyer must finish milling a significant amount of material away and then purchase kits for triggers, uppers, bolts, and barrels. For instance, AR-15 kits require the user to remove all the material from the trigger void, but the mount for the buffer tube and the mag well are already cut.

The buyer receives a block of material in the mail that looks like a receiver, but has no functional parts and is not able to fire anything. Therefore, these billets also don’t have a serial number, and that’s why Shapiro has a problem.
Ghost Guns
These unfinished receivers, don’t have serial numbers and are not required to be sent through a dealer with a Federal Firearms License (FFL). That means there’s also no background check required to get one.
Since there’s no serial number and no paper trail, anti-gunners call them “ghost guns.” Some people like the idea of ghost guns because the federal government supposedly doesn’t know you have them, which makes it harder for the Feds to pry them from your cold dead fingers, should it come to that.
ATF’s Opinion
The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms had this to say in 2015 regarding 80% receivers:
“‘80% receiver,’ ‘80% finished,’ ‘80% complete,’ ‘unfinished receiver’ are all terms referring to an item that some may believe has not yet reached a stage of manufacture that meets the definition of firearm frame or receiver found in the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). These are not statutory terms or terms ATF employs or endorses.”
Criminals With Ghost Guns
Attorney General Shapiro and Gov. Tom Wolf believe that treating these incomplete receivers as firearms won’t inhibit legal gun owners, but will stop those who are ineligible to own guns from getting them illegally.
“If we don’t recognize that 80 percent receivers are firearms under Pennsylvania law, we are creating a giant loophole that allows criminals to skirt our agreed-upon laws that keep people safe,” Gov. Wolf said. “Changing this classification will not hurt legal, responsible gun owners – This change will stop criminals, terrorists and other people who can’t pass a background check from acquiring a gun through the loophole.”
SEE ALSO: Defense Distributed Announces Pre-Order for Ghost Gunner 3 with AK Compatibility
Shapiro’s office says that in the city Philadelphia alone more than 100 guns have been recovered from criminals that started out as 80% receivers. They also report that felons have purchased “duffel bags full of these kits” at three different gun shows in PA.
This news comes on the heels of a shooting at Saugus High School in Southern California last month wherein the shooter used a .45 caliber handgun built from an 80% receiver. (It’s noteworthy that there were “several” other unregistered guns at his house, according to USAToday.)
Who Else Buys 80% Receivers?
Not everyone who buys an 80% receiver is a criminal, however. The kits offer the chance to be a part of the gun building process. Thousands of people “build” AR-15s by ordering all the pieces and assembling them, though if they buy a complete lower receiver it must be processed by an FFL owner. Many, like Rob Sanders, enjoy the process of finishing an 80 percent receiver.
“This was my first gun, and I wanted to build it as much as I could myself,” Sanders said in a phone interview with GunsAmierca regarding the polymer lower for his AR-15. “I wanted to hunt hogs and the AR I tried with a friend felt like a well-evolved gun. When I heard about milling my own, it sounded awesome.” Sanders says the cost was similar to buying a finished forged lower.
“My kit came with a jig and a side-cutting bit. I just used a drill press with a vice and a hand drill,” he said. “I didn’t even own the tools–I checked them out from a tool library.”
Sanders wasn’t motivated to build a ghost gun. “I don’t give a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) about it being registered. I bought all the parts with a credit card and I’m under no misconception that I am fully ghosted,” he said. “Anyone who is looking to skirt regulation should just do it the old fashioned way: buy used.”
Sanders’ rifle is a far cry from his friend’s “well-evolved” AR-15, but that’s not what counts.
“It looks like a raccoon lives in it, but I pull the trigger and it goes boom. I can’t complain. I just think it’s cool to be that involved with the gun building process.”
NRA: “Precedent To Destroy Our Freedoms”
The NRA is outraged by Shapiro’s opinion. They say that claiming 80% lowers are firearms is ridiculous.
“Shapiro’s ‘theory’ of treating non-functioning blocks of polymer, steel, or aluminum as “firearms” is the equivalent of calling a pile of aluminum tubes a bicycle or even considering a hickory or ash tree a baseball bat,” they said Monday.
It sounds like the NRA will fight this opinion to prevent it from becoming a legal precedent.
“Make no mistake — This opinion applies to much more than unfinished receiver kits!” they said. “Using the extremely vague description provided by AG Shapiro, almost any chunk of material (metal, polymer, etc.) could be considered a firearm and he and his anti-gun cronies can use this precedent to destroy our freedoms one step at a time.”
“No Publicity Is Bad Publicity”
A quick internet search for 80% receiver yields many options to buy kits. They may even be a terrific gift for those who want to “make” their own guns but can’t work from a solid billet of aluminum. Some manufacturers, like Polymer80, even offer serialized kits that must be shipped through an FFL and registered.
Whether Shapiro’s new definition of 80% receivers as firearms will hold up in court remains to be seen. What is certain is that he has added a lot of free publicity to 80% lowers and retailers are sure to see a spike in sales this holiday season.

Last edited by Finster; 01/16/20 11:10 AM.

I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731021
01/16/20 11:08 AM
01/16/20 11:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731027
01/16/20 11:18 AM
01/16/20 11:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.
People in PA better sit up and take notice! This libtard in office is a disease that can spread just like it did in Virginia. Don't think it can't happen here! You need to get out and vote this libtard and his flunkies out next election. Make sure to get the word out, get at least one other person to vote and aske him to get at least one other and so on. We need the numbers to defeat the libtard strongholds of Pittsburgh and Philly.

Last edited by Finster; 01/16/20 11:18 AM.

I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731032
01/16/20 11:21 AM
01/16/20 11:21 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,180
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
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tlguy  Offline
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Green Bay, Wisconsin
Doesn't matter, a lower receiver isn't a firearm. Isn't that what the big to-do is about in the courts right now with all the firearm manufacturing cases?

https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/Fed-definition-of-AR-15-part-is-under-fire-566949311.html

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: tlguy] #6731041
01/16/20 11:33 AM
01/16/20 11:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,028
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by tlguy
Doesn't matter, a lower receiver isn't a firearm. Isn't that what the big to-do is about in the courts right now with all the firearm manufacturing cases?

https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/Fed-definition-of-AR-15-part-is-under-fire-566949311.html

A different chapter in the same book.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731054
01/16/20 11:45 AM
01/16/20 11:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,869
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
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EdP  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,869
meadowview, Virginia
It's time to market 79.9% receivers.

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731068
01/16/20 11:53 AM
01/16/20 11:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,561
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,561
Green County Wisconsin
this just in PA AG declares owning schedule 80 steel pipe is now the same as owning a gun in PA

even if neither end is threaded it is more than 80% of the way to a usable zip gun

please remove all schedule 80 gas and water pipe form your homes as not to be selling a gun when you sell your home

(sarcasm)


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731069
01/16/20 11:54 AM
01/16/20 11:54 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,916
Pa
A
Art S Offline
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Art S  Offline
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A

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,916
Pa
[Linked Image]

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731083
01/16/20 12:08 PM
01/16/20 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,963
rogers city mi.
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jeff karsten Offline
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rogers city mi.
Am I wrong or doesn't the "upper" receiver parts need to go through a FFL


olden tyred
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: jeff karsten] #6731088
01/16/20 12:11 PM
01/16/20 12:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,408
east central WI
K
k snow Offline
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K

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,408
east central WI
Originally Posted by jeff karsten
Am I wrong or doesn't the "upper" receiver parts need to go through a FFL


Just the lower

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731099
01/16/20 12:20 PM
01/16/20 12:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,240
West Michigan
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Getting There Offline
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Getting There  Offline
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West Michigan
I would suggest no matter what State you live in YOU better keep your eyes and ears open on what is happening with in your State Capital. I just found out yesterday that there is some elected officials talking about the RED FLAG law in Michigan, here comes Michael Bloomberg.

**Your Vote can get things done. Vote **


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Getting There] #6731118
01/16/20 12:47 PM
01/16/20 12:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,151
Fontana KS
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Andrew Eastwood Offline
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Andrew Eastwood  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,151
Fontana KS
Originally Posted by Getting There
I would suggest no matter what State you live in YOU better keep your eyes and ears open on what is happening with in your State Capital. I just found out yesterday that there is some elected officials talking about the RED FLAG law in Michigan, here comes Michael Bloomberg.

**Your Vote can get things done. Vote **

Yes, very open. I have not had the chance to look it up yet, but heard a guy saying KS was thinking of some red flag BS. It wouldn't surprise me with the D governor and goofy representative that got elected last go round. KS has always been a strong red state.

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: jeff karsten] #6731123
01/16/20 12:52 PM
01/16/20 12:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,561
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by jeff karsten
Am I wrong or doesn't the "upper" receiver parts need to go through a FFL


on some guns it is the upper I think the HK 91 and G3 rifles are this way, on others it is the lower AR15 and AR10 on others yet it is the trigger group like the sig pistols that you can trade out barrels slides and grip modules from sub compact to long slide competition guns .
it is whatever the serialized part is for that type of firearm

some thinks everything is a gun and some judges are saying if it isn't a fire-able gun then it isn't a gun


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731126
01/16/20 12:56 PM
01/16/20 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
H
hippie Offline
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hippie  Offline
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Posts: 19,719
pa
Federal law still says you can build your own gun, correct?

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731134
01/16/20 12:59 PM
01/16/20 12:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,937
PA
E
elkaholic Offline
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PA
I know when I bought my lower it had to go thru an FFL. The upper didn't.

I bought a demilled Bren .303. I went to buy a 80% receiver just so I could put the parts in and use it for show. They wanted the block to go thru an FFL. Main reasoning was because it was tapped to thread the barrel to it. It could've had the hole but not have been threaded and it would've been fine.


Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731135
01/16/20 01:03 PM
01/16/20 01:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,561
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
think about this an drill rifle is made so by taking a functioning rifle drilling a hole through the chamber and welding a pin through that hole a process refereed to as well-rodding

then the bolt face is welded shut and the firing pin shortened


now you have a gun that is not a gun any longer and can be shipped like a block of wood and steel to anyone

spin off the barrel , and if it has the room cut it and re chamber the shortened re-theaded barrel and put it back in or replace the barrel

chuck up the bolt and re drill the firing pin hole or replace the bolt face and put a new firing pin in and you have make it back into a firing rifle again this actually happened a fair bit with 1903 rifles that had been made into drill rifles and were then sold and turned back into firing rifles the work needed was less costly than buying a functional 1903 rifle for service rifle matches.


the reality is that a modest machine shop in a garage with some materials and time and knowledge can build a gun vitally form scratch building our own arms is not only protected by the constitution Washington in his address to the new american people states that just owning arms was not enough that we needed to be able to manufacture our own and be independent of the world as an essential industry of freedom.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731138
01/16/20 01:07 PM
01/16/20 01:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,254
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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I read somewhere last week Maine legislators were looking at mandatory insurance for firearms owners. They are stretching their imaginations on how to thwart the 2nd Amendment while they can.

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731141
01/16/20 01:09 PM
01/16/20 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
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hippie Offline
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pa
Right Pete.

I know it's illegal to sell a homemade gun, but we can build our own.

Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: Finster] #6731145
01/16/20 01:11 PM
01/16/20 01:11 PM
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Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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potter co. p.a.
i'm gettin one just cause.









Re: 80% Receivers = Firearms in PA [Re: hippie] #6731146
01/16/20 01:13 PM
01/16/20 01:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by hippie
Right Pete.

I know it's illegal to sell a homemade gun, but we can build our own.

I thought that also it is what they would like you to believe

however I was corrected that you may sell home built guns however you may not do so as a business without a license to manufacture so say you build a gun use it for 2-3 years and then sell it you didn't make it to sell your just selling it to fund another project or gifting it to a friend or relative.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.c...-give-my-homemade-gun-another-person.htm

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 01/16/20 01:13 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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