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Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731170
01/16/20 01:30 PM
01/16/20 01:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 524
Northern MN
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atrapper Offline
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In theory that's not a bad thought, Canvasback. The problem is that you'd literally have to have a student draft (much like the NFL) before the school year started to determine which teachers get which kids. How can you base a teacher's pay on a classroom that has 40% special needs students that are very unlikely to pass some standardized test when the teacher next door has been given a high functioning class of students? And normally it's the best teachers are given the lower students because of course they're better at catching students up to grade-level. And then you could get into the can of worms about who determines if a student passes a grade level or not. That's a district by district decision that's currently made between teachers, parents, and administration. There are no guidelines that say a student passes a grade or not in many districts. Even if they fail terribly with state testing, that doesn't mean they can't move on to the next grade. As many have already mentioned on here, No Child Left Behind and standardized tests are really haven't cut the mustard. If you want to start a program that pays teachers based on if a student passes a test or not, now you really need to ramp up the testing and testing and standardization of education.

Apples and oranges. These threads are interesting to follow and read through but it's hard to have meaningful discussions because in the education world there is so much variability from state to state and district to district. Maybe this is good, maybe it's bad. There are great teachers and there are very poor teachers. Some or underpaid and some are overpaid. What really pushes my buttons in these sort of threads are the people that post ridiculous anecdotal posts about pay, liberal bias in classrooms, etc. when they haven't stepped foot in a classroom in 20 years or actually gone to their local district to look at the salary scale. Unlike many private sectors, teacher contracts, salary scales, and for the most part, classroom doors are open for the looking! You're paying us teachers so instead of thinking you have the fact, stop in and see with your own eyes what's what.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731175
01/16/20 01:36 PM
01/16/20 01:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Here is a simple change that will really help educating people and cost no more. Stop with the long summer breaks. With the long summer breaks the students lose information from the prior year and the first few months of the new year are review of what we learned and forgot last year. Make it happen!


Who is John Galt?
Re: TEACHERS [Re: Dirt] #6731182
01/16/20 01:40 PM
01/16/20 01:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,057
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
Originally Posted by Dirt
Here is a simple change that will really help educating people and cost no more. Stop with the long summer breaks. With the long summer breaks the students lose information from the prior year and the first few months of the new year are review of what we learned and forgot last year. Make it happen!



Yea let them baby sit year round.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: Dirt] #6731183
01/16/20 01:41 PM
01/16/20 01:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,364
east central WI
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k snow Offline
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Originally Posted by Dirt
Here is a simple change that will really help educating people and cost no more. Stop with the long summer breaks. With the long summer breaks the students lose information from the prior year and the first few months of the new year are review of what we learned and forgot last year. Make it happen!



I'd never support that. Summertime was my time to get out in the woods and be a kid.

Maybe I'd swap summer break for hunting/trapping season.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731185
01/16/20 01:45 PM
01/16/20 01:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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1.) We need to space out vacation time throughout the year rather than having a 2–3 month break in the summer. The long summer breaks are a holdover from “the 18th century, when 85% of Americans were farmers and schools lacked air conditioners.” That rationale no longer exists and in fact all the data suggests that long summer breaks are REALLY DUMB EDUCATION POLICY. Students lose something like 25-30% of what they learned the previous year over the long summer months — and that is especially true for students from low-income families who tend to be involved in far fewer enriching and educational activities during the summer months. Also, more breaks during the school year would cut down on burnout and stress both for teachers and students.

Source: A Kentucky Teacher’s List of 22 Things We Need to Do to “Fix” Public Education

I agree from first hand information.


Who is John Galt?
Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731189
01/16/20 01:54 PM
01/16/20 01:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,057
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Ky
Originally Posted by rex123
I don't see where I was whining about anything just stating the other side of the coin. Like I said last night You have to stick up for teachers because your wife is one. And I hate to tell you this but This is America and I get to say my piece. Like I said last night calm down breath in and out take your meds and have a nice day. lol


First yes you do have the right to state the "other side of the coin" . All I'm asking is tell ALL of the other side. As for my wife being a teacher she retired 9 years ago so redoing the retirement for NEW teachers won't effect her.
I like you was shaking my head at the way the teachers were reacting . I thought dang what's the issue. BUT AFTER I READ THE changes I supported them. ONE question . If you worked 30 years and paid in to a retirement regardless of what they called it and it was gone when you got to retirement age would you want that? OK if the state wants to dilly with the MATCHING portion of the new plan so be it . BUT they were going to dilly with the part that was taken out of each teachers check. And based on this states track record of handling money I wouldn't be that eager to do it


Also if becoming a teacher is SOOO EASY and it pays SSOOOO much why don't you do it Rex , Dirt or any others that think it's so easy and a get rich occupation ????? There is not an age limit on becoming one. Financial aid is out there. PLUS online classes mean you can still hold down a job. BUT I think once you look into the steps you have to go thru to get HIRED as a teach and what you would make you may be singing a different story...

Re: TEACHERS [Re: Canvasback2] #6731193
01/16/20 01:59 PM
01/16/20 01:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,257
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
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Iowa
Originally Posted by Canvasback2
I often thought that a good way to get Teachers to teach Students better, is to base their wage on Student passing grades.



This is SO STUPID its hardly worth addressing. But I will since you are not the only one to mention it.

First off, there are a lot of stupid kids out there. Not all them can be taught, they have all types of disabilities and other issues,,, so a teacher gets a couple classes with a few of these in it and they get their pay cut? Think about it. There are a lot of other variables as well but people who are not there to see it first hand have no idea how bad it really is. Schools don't want to tell people how bad its getting either because their funding is based upon the number of students and you may not know but the worse the kids are the more money they get. Yes, the special ed kids and kids with IEPs bring in many times as much money as the others and they are IN the classrooms now. These kids that used to have their own classroom where they can throw their tantrums. soil themselves, and whatever else are now right in the classrooms where teachers have to deal with them as well as try and teach the other disrespectful little Dirts, along with the handful of good students. They are not allowed to exclude kids anymore.


Re: TEACHERS [Re: Dirt] #6731195
01/16/20 02:03 PM
01/16/20 02:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,057
Ky
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
Originally Posted by Dirt
1.) We need to space out vacation time throughout the year rather than having a 2–3 month break in the summer. The long summer breaks are a holdover from “the 18th century, when 85% of Americans were farmers and schools lacked air conditioners.” That rationale no longer exists and in fact all the data suggests that long summer breaks are REALLY DUMB EDUCATION POLICY. Students lose something like 25-30% of what they learned the previous year over the long summer months — and that is especially true for students from low-income families who tend to be involved in far fewer enriching and educational activities during the summer months. Also, more breaks during the school year would cut down on burnout and stress both for teachers and students.

Source: A Kentucky Teacher’s List of 22 Things We Need to Do to “Fix” Public Education

I agree from first hand information.


Well my first hand info on this is I WORKED IT . The school system I worked for went to the year round calendar. WHAT a mess. They had 2 week breaks every quarter and 30 days off in July. So the failing kids were required to attend an "academy week" during one of the 2 weeks that the passing kids got off. WELL give you one guess what happened. Parents were ready to burn the school board offices to the ground. It was not fair that the smart kids got off 2 weeks and the slackers only one !!!!!! So it lasted 2 years then it was changed back........
anymore suggestions. LOL LOL


OH yea look it up if you think I'm lying Pulaski co school system in Ky year round school.

Last edited by jbyrd63; 01/16/20 02:08 PM.
Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731199
01/16/20 02:11 PM
01/16/20 02:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,257
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
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Iowa
Our school has no air conditioning. Many of these kids can't handle 100+ degree temps in the classrooms in the summer.

There is no way any of these bashers will ever go and actually see it first hand jbyrd63. They have their unfounded opinions in their narrow minds and there's no changing it. I don't know about you but I figure all the people who we'd be helping with these explanations have long since stopped reading this post, so I'm done wasting time trying to talk to these brick walls and trolls.

Thank you to all the teachers out there. Know that the majority of people believe in you and appreciate all you do.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731211
01/16/20 02:22 PM
01/16/20 02:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Armpit, ak
Now I'm bashing teachers by agreeing with them that parents are the problem and posting the suggestion of an educational professional. It would work, if parents would not be against it. The reason public education will not improve is because we can't put air conditioners in schools. Making notes.

Last edited by Dirt; 01/16/20 02:26 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: TEACHERS [Re: AntiGov] #6731219
01/16/20 02:34 PM
01/16/20 02:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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PA
Originally Posted by AntiGov
Wow some of you make teaching sound like a horrible job

None i know are ever looking for something else

Hmmmm


Depending upon which study one looks at, 19-30% of starting teachers leave the profession within the first five years.
I know several who got their degrees, passed the test to become certificated, taught for a few years and left for other fields of work. Most did so because so much of their time must be used for doing things other than educating students.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: ~ADC~] #6731226
01/16/20 02:44 PM
01/16/20 02:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
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OH
Originally Posted by ~ADC~
Originally Posted by Canvasback2
I often thought that a good way to get Teachers to teach Students better, is to base their wage on Student passing grades.



This is SO STUPID its hardly worth addressing. But I will since you are not the only one to mention it.

First off, there are a lot of stupid kids out there. Not all them can be taught, they have all types of disabilities and other issues,,, so a teacher gets a couple classes with a few of these in it and they get their pay cut? Think about it. There are a lot of other variables as well but people who are not there to see it first hand have no idea how bad it really is. Schools don't want to tell people how bad its getting either because their funding is based upon the number of students and you may not know but the worse the kids are the more money they get. Yes, the special ed kids and kids with IEPs bring in many times as much money as the others and they are IN the classrooms now. These kids that used to have their own classroom where they can throw their tantrums. soil themselves, and whatever else are now right in the classrooms where teachers have to deal with them as well as try and teach the other disrespectful little Dirts, along with the handful of good students. They are not allowed to exclude kids anymore.


Exactly, that's one of the many problems. A lot can't be taught, to survive college. They could however flourish in trades, But does it make sense that they have removed all the woodshop, metalshop, and other type classes before the 11th grade? A lot of kids would do good if they could work with their hands instead of throwing them all into one class expecting them to do well or stealing the education of the other kids so they don't "get left behind".


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731243
01/16/20 03:04 PM
01/16/20 03:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 19
Mo.Co.Ks.
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Mo.Co.Ks.
I heard one of my 8th grade students tell another one last week, "I don't ever want to get a job. I want to get my money from the government"! I assure all of you, he didn't pick that concept up from me.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731246
01/16/20 03:06 PM
01/16/20 03:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 524
Northern MN
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Northern MN
Agree, Dirt. There is plenty of evidence and logic out there that suggests students don't retain over the summer and even over a Christmas break. The first month of school in my classroom is dedicated to screening kids to see where they're at and also to catch them up to where they were when they left the previous May. This is something that could use changing in education. The problem with this idea is that teachers would have to find three top new reasons to be teachers: June, July, and August! hahahI
I also think that there needs to be a greater emphasis on the trades. Thankfully, out district seems to also see that need and is now offering a variety of shop classes, welding, etc. This is certainly a niche that motivates those students that may struggle academically but excel in areas outside the classroom.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731247
01/16/20 03:08 PM
01/16/20 03:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 137
MN
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Upon reading some of the previous post regarding student performance and teachers getting paid accordingly.....that's a very difficult plan to put in place. There was some discussion of that at the district I work in. It was determined that it would be nearly impossible to implement this. For me, one of the most important things that has to happen for students to succeed is there absolutely has to be three players playing the game. Teacher, student, parent. If one of those players doesn't do their part the student most likely is going to struggle and will not be successful. I see this with students in my classroom each and every year.

And I definitely agree that teaching students is not a one size fits all. Not all students learn the same way. One of the most helpful things I did was researching Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences. It opened my eyes, and as I read about each level of intelligence I suddenly connected each different one with different students in my class and students I've had over the years. Great teachers recognize this and they adjust their instruction to best fit individual students. Those kind of teachers are doing their part playing the game....the problem is, it takes buy in and effort from the other two players.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731250
01/16/20 03:09 PM
01/16/20 03:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,971
Oklahoma
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This thread has got way out of hand. I dont think the teachers at my daughter school need a raise, my daughter has strait A's and she knows I expect nothing less. When I go to the parents teacher meeting I expected to hear a way to help my kid improve. Not she is great all is good. I was in school there are not great kids. They all can improve.
Adc why in the world is there no ac in your school? That is all on the superintendent and the school board. No reason for no ac. That's pathetic. I know your school isn't as poor as ours. But we got ac. Heck we qualify for free lunch because the majority of the kids are so poor.

Last edited by Matt28; 01/16/20 03:11 PM.
Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731258
01/16/20 03:18 PM
01/16/20 03:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Armpit, ak
atrapper, when I taught saxon math and saxon phonics the canned curricula was set up to review the material covered from last year for at least a month probably more. When teaching math and reading they build on previous knowledge. You can't move to the next level without making sure the previous knowledge is there. It is like two steps forward one step back then two steps forward............ instead of 3 steps forward every year.


Who is John Galt?
Re: TEACHERS [Re: Matt28] #6731266
01/16/20 03:32 PM
01/16/20 03:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,257
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
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Iowa
Originally Posted by Matt28

Adc why in the world is there no ac in your school? That is all on the superintendent and the school board. No reason for no ac. That's pathetic. I know your school isn't as poor as ours. But we got ac. Heck we qualify for free lunch because the majority of the kids are so poor.


Because enough people in the district will not vote for an increase in their taxes to pay for it. We have $0 school taxes here as well. We did manage to get some differed $ from some taxes, just a few weeks ago that MAY go to AC but the building needs lots of other updates as well to enhance security and general maintenance.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: ~ADC~] #6731272
01/16/20 03:36 PM
01/16/20 03:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
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Oklahoma
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Oklahoma
Originally Posted by ~ADC~
Originally Posted by Matt28

Adc why in the world is there no ac in your school? That is all on the superintendent and the school board. No reason for no ac. That's pathetic. I know your school isn't as poor as ours. But we got ac. Heck we qualify for free lunch because the majority of the kids are so poor.


Because enough people in the district will not vote for an increase in their taxes to pay for it. We have $0 school taxes here as well. We did manage to get some differed $ from some taxes, just a few weeks ago that MAY go to AC but the building needs lots of other updates as well to enhance security and general maintenance.

So when you pay property taxes some of your county tax doesn't go to the school?

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6731275
01/16/20 03:42 PM
01/16/20 03:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,257
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
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Iowa
That is correct Matt as far as I know. I'm not 100% but I know other school districts in the area pay a special "school tax" that our district does not.

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