No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: white17] #6732563
01/17/20 03:57 PM
01/17/20 03:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
T
traprjohn Offline
trapper
traprjohn  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
Originally Posted by white17
I don't know. I sure wouldn't want a bunch of yahoos shooting around my place..........especially in the middle of the night. Can you imagine the problems if you had cattle in a pasture or how many wounded elk would be lost ?


LOL Ken, imagine our USDA shooters with silencers and night scopes shooting the deer around our airport in Raleigh and Charlotte and all the cities airports in NC. Yep, what a show it was!.
Probably happens in many states.


www.sevenoakstrappingsupplies.com for trap mods and gear
The 10 Commandments are not suggestions.
Buy a soldiers meal EVERY chance you can.

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: white17] #6732588
01/17/20 04:12 PM
01/17/20 04:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by Getting There
First off, shoot cows only. Have a drawing for how many cows you want harvested. There is a fee for a harvest tag, 50% of the fee will got to the private land own that the cow is harvest of off. The land own are sign a agreement to allow hunting on there property and the State has a list of those owners. JMO

**Stop putting off getting registered to Vote.**


I believe that the increased number of permits were for antlerless elk on public land.

Seems to me that those whining are just antler hunters.

What difference does it make how much land a rancher owns ? He owns it. He should control it.

Are we going to use envy to manage wildlife herds ?

I don't have a problem with what Idaho did. It seems both equitable, economical, and efficient.

Yes to your first point, the herd is coming off of public land to private land which makes sense twofold. Crops are there and no hunting pressure if the landowner doesn't allow hunting. I didn't see anyone whining, they up'd the tags to 2500 and OTC, and sold out. This was very good and the way it should be done.

Your second point I think was in not understanding what my point was about how many acres the landowner owns. My point was about a safety issue. If the tract was tight with roads and buildings or heavily populated I could see where it would be a issue to allow hunting.

To your third point, I don't envy wildlife management, I loath the mismanagement.

Also, I strongly agree with star flakes last sentence (and reducing predators). It is not right imo to pay subsidy monies to farmers for crop damage if they don't allow hunting, they are the creators of the problem, but yet want their cake and eat it to. It is double dipping especially if they lease to just a few and tantamount to having a builder build you a home but you don't let him paint it. Twenty years pass and the wood rots and you expect him to replace it. I am all for landowners rights, what I'm not for is paying them basically a welfare check for something they could control themselves for free.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6732609
01/17/20 04:32 PM
01/17/20 04:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,127
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,127
McGrath, AK
I could maybe get behind not paying for damages. Of course that just increases the costs for the farmer/rancher and ultimately the consumer.

I don't know about there in the east but in the west, Idaho in particular and Wyoming as well..........landowners work in conjunction with game managers to allow public hunting on their lands. They are called 'walk in areas'. Access is sort of restricted just so damage to habitat is reduced.

Managers also work with the land owners to improve habitat for game by improving water & soils management. It benefits everyone. We have folks on this forum who are engaged in that very practice. I'm sure they could address it a lot better than I can


Mean As Nails
Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Catch22] #6732763
01/17/20 06:36 PM
01/17/20 06:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
Originally Posted by Catch22
After listening to the radio broadcast I do not agree with what they did. They are doing this, spending a bunch of money btw, under the guise of research. I wonder how big the tracts of private property are and if the landowner allows hunters to hunt it. They never said that it would be dangerous to hunt there. They themselves changed the pattern of the elk to come in at night to feed, then said because it's against the law to hunt elk at night, we had to go in and shoot them. I ain't buying it.



This

Those elk are a state resource and belong to the citizens of Idaho.

The elk are not owned by the game commission

They are hired by the citizens of Idaho to manage not destroy the resources


The notion that elk can only be killed at night is right out of the poachers hand book

Ludicrous.........they failed


Report a post club - Non member


Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6732846
01/17/20 07:17 PM
01/17/20 07:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
Those elk were somewhere during daylight hours and so should have been able to be hunted. Sounds like IF&G got behind in their management strategy and had to play catch-up. If the farmers were faced with loss of forage vs allowing hunter access, it seems likely they would choose the latter. If that drove the elk back to public land then allowing hunting on the public land would help decrease numbers to a sustainable level.

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: white17] #6732909
01/17/20 07:44 PM
01/17/20 07:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
C
cmcf Offline
trapper
cmcf  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
Originally Posted by white17
I could maybe get behind not paying for damages. Of course that just increases the costs for the farmer/rancher and ultimately the consumer.

I don't know about there in the east but in the west, Idaho in particular and Wyoming as well..........landowners work in conjunction with game managers to allow public hunting on their lands. They are called 'walk in areas'. Access is sort of restricted just so damage to habitat is reduced.

Managers also work with the land owners to improve habitat for game by improving water & soils management. It benefits everyone. We have folks on this forum who are engaged in that very practice. I'm sure they could address it a lot better than I can



White nailed it. And some of the rest of you sound just like the tourist that were “surveyed” about the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone . If you don’t live out here and never have you probably think you know more than you do.

Funny thing is I vary rarely hear someone from the Rocky Mountain States say boy I sure would like to go back east and go hunting.


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6732923
01/17/20 07:50 PM
01/17/20 07:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,666
Idaho, Lemhi County
G
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"
Gulo  Offline
"On The Other Hand"
G

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,666
Idaho, Lemhi County
"boy I sure would like to go back east and go hunting." - Quote from cmcf

Okay cmcf, I'll go ahead and say it. Boy, I sure wish I could go back to Eastern Russia and go hunting. Eastern United States? Not on a bet....... Maybe eastern Wyoming

Jack


Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733075
01/17/20 09:01 PM
01/17/20 09:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
C
cmcf Offline
trapper
cmcf  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
I think I would too! Russia that is.
By the way really enjoyed your reminiscing on “BIG game”


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733083
01/17/20 09:04 PM
01/17/20 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
This land owner prolly shot himself in the foot.........oh crap!


Most ranchers will take advantage of this highly sought after public resource during normal hunting seasons.

It's a big money game and only those with a stack of frog eyes are allowed to play.

Joe public land Hunter is prohibited from playing .

The rancher can and will use multiple known tactics ( both legal and illegal ) to ensure public elk are on his land during bull elk seasons. ( Bulls = big money , cows not so much )

When the elk seasons are over and nuisance elk with no value won't return to the public land the rancher starts calling fish and game .

They may issue him a few agriculture damage cow tags , but his freezer is already full of beef , tagged elk , or untagged elk .

At this point he may or may not let Joe public have a chance at a cow elk , per fish and games request. Usually not



I don't know for sure about this particular rancher in Idaho but this is common here in Oregon

Those 200 elk won't be back for fall hunting season and neither will the hunters with stacks of frog eyes

Did he cry wolf ? Did it backfire ? Or is his ranch in a true winter ground only region so he couldn't care less ?

Last edited by AntiGov; 01/18/20 02:04 AM.

Report a post club - Non member


Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: traprjohn] #6733097
01/17/20 09:11 PM
01/17/20 09:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,660
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,660
Minnesota
Originally Posted by traprjohn
Originally Posted by 330-Trapper
What a Public Waste of License Sales!!!



and gas and food and motel and sporting goods sales that could have been realized by visiting hunters.

Exactly Right
Hunting Dollars boosting the local economy


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733170
01/17/20 09:33 PM
01/17/20 09:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 4,100
Bonner County, Idaho
Wild_Idaho Offline
trapper
Wild_Idaho  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 4,100
Bonner County, Idaho
And people think wolves are the main problem on elk numbers... Geez


Real name Eric
The sharpest hammer in the box of crayons.

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733418
01/17/20 11:18 PM
01/17/20 11:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 634
ID
O
Ole Offline
trapper
Ole  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 634
ID
It amazes me how so many people with no first hand knowledge about a situation can have such conclusive answers to a many faceted problem. I suppose the Idaho Fish and Game Department could continue to pay over a million dollars in damages every year instead of conducting controlled research looking for options that might help prevent damage. There are no magic wands in wildlife management.

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733434
01/17/20 11:32 PM
01/17/20 11:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
Controlled research should not include destroying 200 elk. What was the conclusion of this so called research ?


Report a post club - Non member


Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733551
01/18/20 01:24 AM
01/18/20 01:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,459
Oregon
H
H2ORat Offline
trapper
H2ORat  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,459
Oregon
Amen - antigov just look at our nature conservancy grounds on the zumwalt prairie a prime example of landowner abuse of the system at our expense.

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733560
01/18/20 01:47 AM
01/18/20 01:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,692
Central Oregon
Originally Posted by H2ORat
Amen - antigov just look at our nature conservancy grounds on the zumwalt prairie a prime example of landowner abuse of the system at our expense.



Roger that , i will check it out !


You are right , the exploitation of elk by ODFW and private land owners gives the public land hunter a raw deal


Report a post club - Non member


Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733656
01/18/20 07:57 AM
01/18/20 07:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
C
cmcf Offline
trapper
cmcf  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
OOOH MY!!! What’s next? Airial gunning of Mountain Goats to protect Rocky Mountain Big Horns from disease??? Oh yeah, never mind, already under consideration. But why not just sell more tags??? Yeah!!!!
Bet they never thought of that! Oh right, that didn’t work. Well, well the land owners just need to let more people hunt instead of double dipping, yeah that’d work! Oh darn you say they’re not on private land well snizzelfritzz!!! Darned mean old wildlife biologists what do they know anyway???


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: cmcf] #6733669
01/18/20 08:24 AM
01/18/20 08:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by cmcf
OOOH MY!!! What’s next? Airial gunning of Mountain Goats to protect Rocky Mountain Big Horns from disease??? Oh yeah, never mind, already under consideration. But why not just sell more tags??? Yeah!!!!
Bet they never thought of that! Oh right, that didn’t work. Well, well the land owners just need to let more people hunt instead of double dipping, yeah that’d work! Oh darn you say they’re not on private land well snizzelfritzz!!! Darned mean old wildlife biologists what do they know anyway???

Well, either not enough or pushing a agenda. They're plan was, We all are a gonna go up there (insert pause to retweet a Eagles Rock tweet) and bug the crap out of them there elk during the daytime. Oops, dem elk went nocturnal, doop de do, we didn't see that coming. Well now we'll have to go shoot up a bunch cause it's illegal to hunt at night for da public. We'll have to spend a crap load of money doing it, and make sure the farmer get's paid too( insert excitement cause his tweet got retweeted 3 times, call to Mama to tell her), but what do we'uns care, it's not our money haha. Yeah, great plan!


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733681
01/18/20 08:38 AM
01/18/20 08:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
cmcf, I appreciate your input and the westerner's view that it provides. I'd like to hear what you think caused this particular situation.

For my part I know that in Wy the state is required to compensate landowners for wildlife depredation losses and it appears from other's posts that Idaho does the same. Wy establishes the winter feeding grounds to provide for the elk herds that otherwise would infiltrate private agricultural land because it is their traditional winter feeding grounds. To me this strategy appears to allow the elk population to be based on summer forage rather than otherwise limited available winter forage and provides higher numbers of elk for hunters to take advantage of rather than having to kill them. Hunters help the Wy economy in a multitude of ways so more hunters means more income for the state. However, it looks to me like Idaho found themselves in the opposite situation. That being an elk population that it was cheaper to kill than to feed. This doesn't sound like successful management of a wildlife resource to me. Perhaps there are particulars regarding the specific location that brought about the killing, but I hope Idaho can find a better solution in future years.

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733729
01/18/20 09:36 AM
01/18/20 09:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
C
cmcf Offline
trapper
cmcf  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
Edp; the truth is I don’t know. The situation from area to area varies lot and the folks in that particular area are more likely to know what best course of action is than someone a thousand miles away. Like Ole said wildlife management is a many faceted thing. I see a lot of posts from other parts of the country bashing their game commission as being stupid idiot jerks, not so much around here. I do know that a few land owners take advantage of the depredation pmts while not allowing the public to access their land. I know ranches that have lease agreements with outfitters that alow late season hunts for cows. I know that the number one reason land owners give for not allowing access is property damage, cut fences, trash, livestock shot, buildings shot, hay meadows rutted up and the list goes on. The ranchers land is usually the same land that the wildlife use for winter range. There will be conflict. We have a lot of land enrolled in the access yes program where land owners open the land and let G & F manage it for hunting and fishing. The program is funded by voluntary donations by hunters and fishermen. I don’t know what Idaho does I haven’t spent a lot of time there and have never hunted there. I do know that Idaho is a destination state for big game hunting. I believe they have been doing a pretty fair job of managing the resources or they wouldn’t be a destination state.


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: State of Idaho shoots elk [Re: Bruce T] #6733741
01/18/20 09:41 AM
01/18/20 09:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,180
Priest River, Idaho USA
S
SundanceMtnMan Offline
trapper
SundanceMtnMan  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,180
Priest River, Idaho USA
There are many laws and regulations in play here. The fish and game dept. is required by the state constitution to prevent or reimburse agricultural damage caused by our wildlife. The dept. is continually strapped for cash as their only source of revenue is license and tag sales and taxes from grants from programs such as the federal tax on sporting goods(no money from the states general fund). A lot of times they have to take the cheapest solution not the best. In your states you may be able to force landowners to allow hunting or trespassing to access the damage reimbursements but that won't fly here. The state legislature consists mainly of farmers and ranchers who get this money and they have final say over the fish and game dept. Instead of jumping on the fish and game and the individuals who work there perhaps you should blame the system. We have some of the best fishing and hunting in the U.S. so they must be doing something right even though they are short on cash and the Feds are throwing problems like wolves at us.
I think we all should research a problem rather then believing the worst because of some media sound bite. I am a life long resident and do not and never have worked for fish and game but support the job they do.


"They Say Nothing is Impossible,
But, I Do Nothing Every Day."
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread