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Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Green Bay] #6741589
01/23/20 07:33 PM
01/23/20 07:33 PM
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Posts: 5,444
Wisconsin
Muskrat Offline
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Muskrat  Offline
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Wisconsin
I don't eat antlers.

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Muskrat] #6741604
01/23/20 07:38 PM
01/23/20 07:38 PM
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Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline
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Eagleye  Offline
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Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Muskrat
I don't eat antlers.


They do in China- might help your shoulder and other stuff.

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: corky] #6741634
01/23/20 07:57 PM
01/23/20 07:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
Wisconsin
G
Green Bay Offline OP
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Originally Posted by corky
muskrat and tlguy got this right


X2


Author of The Lure Hunter: A Guide to Finding Fishing Lures
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: NE Wildlife] #6741637
01/23/20 08:01 PM
01/23/20 08:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,459
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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walleyed Offline
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Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
Originally Posted by NE Wildlife
Yes 65 or older or disabled would have a regular archery license
Lol it has a scope and a trigger it’s a gun


Most compounds have cross hair sights and release trigger so they are a gun as well.

w


"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association
Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters

I Support Non-Resident Trapping



Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Eagleye] #6741648
01/23/20 08:10 PM
01/23/20 08:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,444
Wisconsin
Muskrat Offline
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Muskrat  Offline
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Originally Posted by Eagleye
Originally Posted by Muskrat
I don't eat antlers.


They do in China- might help your shoulder and other stuff.


Hmmm . . . haven't considered that. Thanks.

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Muskrat] #6741735
01/23/20 09:43 PM
01/23/20 09:43 PM
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Posts: 11,294
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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East-Central Wisconsin
You eat enough antler and about late September if you find yourself rubbing your head on door jams and other places you will know why! lol

Bryce

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Green Bay] #6741983
01/24/20 07:25 AM
01/24/20 07:25 AM
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Eagleye Offline
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https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/...d2b2ddf-5bf0-5e0d-860f-3707adf12d85.html

I found it interesting that Greg Kazmierski the DNR Board member suggesting some of these changes owns an archery shop in Delafield, WI. Yes, Buck Rub Archery sells compound bows but the mainstay of their offerings are premium vertical bow brands. All things being equal, there is way more revenue and margin from selling a vertical bow compared to a compound - think about the value add of accessories and set-up alone. Are these proposed changes good for an environment of declining license sales and declining harvest reports or good for his business?

Last edited by Eagleye; 01/24/20 07:58 AM.
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Green Bay] #6742250
01/24/20 11:07 AM
01/24/20 11:07 AM
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WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
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I tend to think it is more productive to attack ideas and leave the people out of it.

Personally, I may not like his ideas, but I think Kaz's heart is in the right place. He sees the shift in harvest from gun to bow. He recognizes that ~600K buy a gun license and ~300K buy archery. If the 600K start to think they don't have a chance at a buck because the 300K already harvested 40+% of the antlered bucks before they can enter the woods, that could lead to a pretty big revenue gap in short order. As that percentage continues to climb, the sediment will grow so what's your solution?


Last edited by WIMarshRAT; 01/24/20 11:11 AM.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: WIMarshRAT] #6742262
01/24/20 11:18 AM
01/24/20 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,897
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline
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Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
I tend to think it is more productive to attack ideas and leave the people out of it.

Personally, I may not like his ideas, but I think Kaz's heart is in the right place. He sees the shift in harvest from gun to bow. He recognizes that ~600K buy a gun license and ~300K buy archery. If the 600K start to think they don't have a chance at a buck because the 300K already harvested 40+% of the antlered bucks before they can enter the woods, that could lead to a pretty big revenue gap in short order. As that percentage continues to climb, the sediment will grow so what's your solution?


I would tend to agree on attacking the ideas- I also like to understand WIIFM... What's in it for me? That often drives the wrong behavior when you're looking a outcomes that can be self serving.
In my opinion, there are two paradigm shifts happening at the same time. Crossbow sales are up and the omnichannel shopping experience has gained a lot of traction. Using my vertical bow as an example, Mathews, not sold at retail, it’s a destination purchase from a dealer (not available at a big box retailer) and dealers must be a certain distance from one another to qualify. I go to an archery shop to make the purchase because set-up is also a key consideration when buying a vertical bow. I probably will add the following: peep, nocking loop, drop away rest, sight and maybe quiver, release and stabilizer. My bow is now the price of a Browning A Bolt. Tomorrow, I decide to buy a compound, Amazon becomes my first consideration because set-up is not a priority, I can buy a 10pt or Barnett with a bundle at a lower cost and sighting in, well within anyone’s skill set- is the only thing I need to do.
If I owned an archery shop that specializes in vertical bows and service after the sale- I’m now selling buggy whips.

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Eagleye] #6742309
01/24/20 11:52 AM
01/24/20 11:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
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WI
Originally Posted by Eagleye

I would tend to agree on attacking the ideas- I also like to understand WIIFM... What's in it for me? That often drives the wrong behavior when you're looking a outcomes that can be self serving.
In my opinion, there are two paradigm shifts happening at the same time. Crossbow sales are up and the omnichannel shopping experience has gained a lot of traction. Using my vertical bow as an example, Mathews, not sold at retail, it’s a destination purchase from a dealer (not available at a big box retailer) and dealers must be a certain distance from one another to qualify. I go to an archery shop to make the purchase because set-up is also a key consideration when buying a vertical bow. I probably will add the following: peep, nocking loop, drop away rest, sight and maybe quiver, release and stabilizer. My bow is now the price of a Browning A Bolt. Tomorrow, I decide to buy a compound, Amazon becomes my first consideration because set-up is not a priority, I can buy a 10pt or Barnett with a bundle at a lower cost and sighting in, well within anyone’s skill set- is the only thing I need to do.
If I owned an archery shop that specializes in vertical bows and service after the sale- I’m now selling buggy whips.


Of course none of us are greedy, it's only the other fellow that is greedy -- Milton Freedman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

While some good points, I tend to think that stuff is all noise. It doesn't get us any closer to understanding if there truly is a problem and if so, what needs to be done.

Look at the true concern that I highlighted above and I am truly curious to get your take.

I will add one more piece that may or may not be relevant. Take turkey hunting. The season framework was changed and divided the season into separate parts to disperse hunters. Today, thousands of available tags for later season go unpurchased. Is it because folks don't think it is worth their time to go out....all the birds have been harvested already or some other reason? What if gun hunters start following the turkey hunters lead and quit buying the later season tags? How much revenue will be lost?




Last edited by WIMarshRAT; 01/24/20 11:57 AM.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: WIMarshRAT] #6742344
01/24/20 12:28 PM
01/24/20 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,444
Wisconsin
Muskrat Offline
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Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
. . . As that percentage continues to climb, the sediment will grow so what's your solution?


How does one grow sediment?

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: WIMarshRAT] #6742356
01/24/20 12:43 PM
01/24/20 12:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,444
Wisconsin
Muskrat Offline
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Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
I tend to think it is more productive to attack ideas and leave the people out of it.

Personally, I may not like his ideas, but I think Kaz's heart is in the right place. He sees the shift in harvest from gun to bow. He recognizes that ~600K buy a gun license and ~300K buy archery. If the 600K start to think they don't have a chance at a buck because the 300K already harvested 40+% of the antlered bucks before they can enter the woods, that could lead to a pretty big revenue gap in short order. As that percentage continues to climb, the sediment will grow so what's your solution?



The assumption is most of the 600K gun hunters deer hunt primarily to shoot a buck. And the reason they don't see bucks during gun deer season is because the archers (and crossgunners for NE Wildlife) have already harvested 40+-% of them. Therefore, the DNR needs to limit the number of bucks shot by archers (and crossgunners for NE Wildlife) prior to gun deer season so the 600K will have something to shoot at.

But the archers who use crossbows (and crossguns for NE Wildlife) are more successful than archers who use inferior weapons but are still classified as bows (except for bowguns for those using a bow with a trigger release for NE Wildlife). Therefore, we must restrict the use of crossbows (and crossguns for NE Wildlife) during the prime time of the rut in November so not as many bucks will be killed so the 600K gun deer hunters will believe they will see more bucks in the woods come gun deer season.

Dang . . . pure genius! Now it all makes sense.

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Green Bay] #6742377
01/24/20 01:05 PM
01/24/20 01:05 PM
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Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Don't you think that the majority of gun hunters also hunt with either a bow or a cross bow. Every one I know does.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Green Bay] #6742382
01/24/20 01:09 PM
01/24/20 01:09 PM
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WI
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nimzy Offline
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Seeing how it’s about cash run the gun season during the rut. Really knock em off. Many happy hunters. Happy hunters recruit.

It would be cool to see the woods quiet before thanksgiving.

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Muskrat] #6742385
01/24/20 01:15 PM
01/24/20 01:15 PM
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WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
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Originally Posted by Muskrat

The assumption is most of the 600K gun hunters deer hunt primarily to shoot a buck.


It might be an assumption, but does it have merit? Look at participation in antlerless only seasons. Are folks voting with their time?

Last edited by WIMarshRAT; 01/24/20 01:28 PM.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Green Bay] #6742396
01/24/20 01:19 PM
01/24/20 01:19 PM
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Wisconsin
Muskrat Offline
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Aw heck, just open November to weapon of choice and be done with it. Everybody will be happy and nobody will be happy. Just let me know when I've got to wear blaze orange (blaze pink for the Beav) whilst trapping.

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: The Beav] #6742400
01/24/20 01:23 PM
01/24/20 01:23 PM
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WI
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Originally Posted by The Beav
Don't you think that the majority of gun hunters also hunt with either a bow or a cross bow. Every one I know does.


I would have to check Gary, but I think it was between half and a third buy both licenses. But this is a big factor. Folks don't buy both unless they take up bow hunting at some point. Surprisingly, even with those folks buying two license, very few actually harvest two bucks a year (~10K)


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Green Bay] #6742405
01/24/20 01:29 PM
01/24/20 01:29 PM
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Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline
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It's hard for me to quantify the significant advantage that a crossbow has over a vertical bow, most crossbow hunters I know are good deer hunters- that's the true advantage.
Here's a quick read.
https://www.bowhunting.com/bowhunt101/crossbow-vs-vertical-bow/

Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: nimzy] #6742409
01/24/20 01:34 PM
01/24/20 01:34 PM
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WIMarshRAT Offline
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Originally Posted by nimzy
Seeing how it’s about cash run the gun season during the rut. Really knock em off. Many happy hunters. Happy hunters recruit.

It would be cool to see the woods quiet before thanksgiving.



Right now state statue dictates the gun season start the Saturday before Thanksgiving. Doesn't mean it isn't possible, just adds another level of difficulty to accomplish.

You also bring up a good point about other user groups. We saw that a little last year with snowmobilers and later deer hunts. Trappers have been having access issues until the festivities are over as well.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: WI Gun Deer Thread [Re: Muskrat] #6742410
01/24/20 01:36 PM
01/24/20 01:36 PM
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east central WI
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k snow Offline
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Originally Posted by Muskrat
Aw heck, just open November to weapon of choice and be done with it. Everybody will be happy and nobody will be happy. Just let me know when I've got to wear blaze orange (blaze pink for the Beav) whilst trapping.


I have to agree with that statement.

There is no easy solution, and it seems like everyone will lose and nobody will win.

I love fall turkey hunting, and hate having to wear blaze orange while doing it.

I like the idea posted earlier about a primitive weapons season from sept thru december, bow and muzzleloader, no blaze required. The a regular 9 day with blaze orange, or pink, whatever.

I bow hunt and gun hunt, long bow, flintlock and 30-30 or scoped 06. I want to shoot meat. Antlers don't matter either way. First deer that offers me an ethical shot gets killed. Don't preach to me about trophy management.

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