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Re: Love your enemies? [Re: Catch22] #6761098
02/06/20 10:05 PM
02/06/20 10:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Catch22
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

ad·ver·sar·y
/ˈadvərˌserē/
noun
synonyms: opponent, rival, enemy, foe, nemesis, antagonist, combatant, challenger, contender, competitor, opposer, fellow contestant; opposition, competition;



Are we to love the devil as well?

No. When Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus whipped him with the word of God, he said it was written. Jesus whipped him but didn't try to convert him because Satan's fate had and is sealed.


The passage comes post satan’s whipping. This identifies him as still a viable threat, aka enemy.


-Goofy-
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761101
02/06/20 10:08 PM
02/06/20 10:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
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Yes, and it doesn't matter, his fate to eternity in the lake of fire had been sealed, that's my opinion anyway.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6761104
02/06/20 10:09 PM
02/06/20 10:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
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Y

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Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Hobbie
You will have to be more specific, I've not encountered any yet.

Re: Love your enemies? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6761109
02/06/20 10:10 PM
02/06/20 10:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline OP
trapper
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Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

ad·ver·sar·y
/ˈadvərˌserē/
noun
synonyms: opponent, rival, enemy, foe, nemesis, antagonist, combatant, challenger, contender, competitor, opposer, fellow contestant; opposition, competition;



Are we to love the devil as well?

The original language in the verse in Peter for enemy is antidikos, meaning one who accuses, such as an opponent in a lawsuit. The word for enemy in the verse in Matthew is ekthros,one who hates you. It's good when you have a word used in two different places to look at the original language, you can often gain a lot of context that way. In Matthew Jesus is telling us to love people that hate us. In Peter the word enemy or adversary refers to how Satan accuses us in front of God.

Last edited by loosegoose; 02/06/20 10:14 PM.
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761113
02/06/20 10:14 PM
02/06/20 10:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

ad·ver·sar·y
/ˈadvərˌserē/
noun
synonyms: opponent, rival, enemy, foe, nemesis, antagonist, combatant, challenger, contender, competitor, opposer, fellow contestant; opposition, competition;



Are we to love the devil as well?

The original language in the verse in Peter for enemy is antidikos, meaning one who accuses, such as an opponent in a lawsuit. The word for enemy in the verse in Matthew is ekthros,one who hates you. It's good when you have a word used in two different places to look at the original language, you can often gain a lot of context that way.

Beat me to it. I have my Strongest Strong's Concordance out

Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761115
02/06/20 10:16 PM
02/06/20 10:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

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Posts: 16,170
ny
Hobbie,,the Bible was written by men,not God.To the best of their ability,,but still written by man.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761121
02/06/20 10:18 PM
02/06/20 10:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
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U

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Posts: 16,170
ny
You know what I would love right now,, a piece of pizza,,see yous after I do that.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: upstateNY] #6761134
02/06/20 10:27 PM
02/06/20 10:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
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Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by upstateNY
Hobbie,,the Bible was written by men,not God.To the best of their ability,,but still written by man.


That's the type of argument you see in Bible Deniers 101.

Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761138
02/06/20 10:28 PM
02/06/20 10:28 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
P
pcr2 Offline
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potter co. p.a.
Originally Posted by Law Dog
Get off of my lawn!

les had that copyrighted and you owe him 5 bucks laugh









Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761145
02/06/20 10:31 PM
02/06/20 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
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Y

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Marion Kansas
2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness

Re: Love your enemies? [Re: Yes sir] #6761151
02/06/20 10:32 PM
02/06/20 10:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Yes sir
Hobbie
You will have to be more specific, I've not encountered any yet.


I’ll start with an easy one.

Luke 23-32-43

32 Two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed. 33 When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. 34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[b] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

36 The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar 37 and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.”

38 There was a written notice above him, which read: this is the king of the jews.

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[c]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


Matthew 27- 38-44

38 Two rebels were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40 and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!” 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! He’s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.


-Goofy-
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: upstateNY] #6761153
02/06/20 10:33 PM
02/06/20 10:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,057
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
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Y

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Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by upstateNY
Hobbie,,the Bible was written by men,not God.To the best of their ability,,but still written by man.

You believe he can create the world around us but he cant inspire his creation to write his perfect world? Surely you jest my brother?

Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761154
02/06/20 10:35 PM
02/06/20 10:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

ad·ver·sar·y
/ˈadvərˌserē/
noun
synonyms: opponent, rival, enemy, foe, nemesis, antagonist, combatant, challenger, contender, competitor, opposer, fellow contestant; opposition, competition;



Are we to love the devil as well?

The original language in the verse in Peter for enemy is antidikos, meaning one who accuses, such as an opponent in a lawsuit. The word for enemy in the verse in Matthew is ekthros,one who hates you. It's good when you have a word used in two different places to look at the original language, you can often gain a lot of context that way. In Matthew Jesus is telling us to love people that hate us. In Peter the word enemy or adversary refers to how Satan accuses us in front of God.


So it doesn’t mean what it says? How can that be. Surely God knew not everybody would not get the decoder ring?

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 02/06/20 10:38 PM.

-Goofy-
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: pcr2] #6761155
02/06/20 10:36 PM
02/06/20 10:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
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Central, SD
Originally Posted by pcr2
Originally Posted by Law Dog
Get off of my lawn!

les had that copyrighted and you owe him 5 bucks laugh



Check went out to Clint today sorry.


Last edited by Law Dog; 02/06/20 10:37 PM.

Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761157
02/06/20 10:38 PM
02/06/20 10:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
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J

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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
"In those days, in the Jewish culture, there was an insult where you would smack someone."

PASkinner, are you saying the New Testament applied only to its time and place? You are saying that the plain meaning of the text should be ignored, in favor of an interpretation based on Jewish culture of 2,000 years ago? Sort of like arguing the plain meaning of the Second Amendment doesn't apply, that we should look at the original intent to allow muskets, not ARs.

If you want Jesus' words to apply to our time and place, you can't make the argument you're making. (But it is comforting to know I can slap my slaves without being fined or jailed!)

"Mistranslation of Matthew 5:39 has created a theological contradiction. But, when this saying is understood Hebraically, rather than contradict, it harmonizes beautifully with the rest of Scripture. Our response to evil has to be resistance! It is morally wrong to tolerate evil. Our response to a “hot-headed” neighbor, on the other hand, must be entirely different. His anger will only be temporary if we respond in a biblical manner:"

There you go again, with the original Hebraic intent. Doesn't any part of this Bible apply to 21st century America? If not, whom do we trust to translate it for us?

Your argument that we should not tolerate evil, an attack by a murderer or enemy in wartime, makes sense--as a survival doctrine. I don't see how you can square that doctrine with Jesus' teachings because it's so easy to define "evil" as being any force that opposes your own wishes.

I think Jesus meant what he said. He said many controversial, revolutionary things. They are controversial now, just as in His own time.

I don't see how you can say you follow Jesus, while reserving the right to define "evil" for yourself--anyone who disagrees with you on a political issue is bad, and therefore deserving of slaps. That's certainly the attitude of some who post here.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761163
02/06/20 10:41 PM
02/06/20 10:41 PM
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Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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If an accident happened on the highway and there was 4 witnesses which would be more believable? If 4 witnesses had an identical description of the accident word for word or if all 4 witnesses had a different version and their descriptions were not identical but in general all had the same conclusion.

The 4 gospels while not identical reach to the same place.

Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761167
02/06/20 10:43 PM
02/06/20 10:43 PM
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Catch22 Offline
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Yes, it means what it says, I don't think it's misleading or a homonym. As mentioned earlier, Jesus did not try to convert Satan when he could have. The Archangel Michael didn't cross him or try to covert him either when they were having words about Moses' body. He simply said, "the Lord rebuke you". My point is, Satan is not a mortal man and "enemy" is enemy but on a different plane.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761168
02/06/20 10:48 PM
02/06/20 10:48 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline OP
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Hobbie, it says what it means, but it wasn't written in English originally. Those sections we're talking about were probably written in arimaic or Greek originally. Translation isn't exact. Translators don't translate words for words, they translate ideas for ideas. The word enemy can mean different things. Maybe a better example would be the word love. The Greeks had like four different words for love; Eros, agape, phileo, and porneo. We as English speakers would say we love our wife, we love our kids, and we love our best friend. But a Greek would say he porneos and Eros and agapes his wife, he agapes his kids, and he phileos his best friend. We use the word love to express many different ideas, the Greeks had a word for each type of love. In the same way, we use the word enemy for all types of enemy, the original language had many different ways of expressing different types of enemies.

Last edited by loosegoose; 02/06/20 10:50 PM.
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: loosegoose] #6761169
02/06/20 10:49 PM
02/06/20 10:49 PM
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Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Jesus called his followers to love their enemies, etc, etc..
Jesus doesn't expect people who don't follow him follow his commands. That would be rather pointless.
Trump does not claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ, so therefore, it doesn't surprise me if he doesn't agree. That still doesn't mean he can't be a good president though.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Love your enemies? [Re: Foxpaw] #6761170
02/06/20 10:50 PM
02/06/20 10:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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Originally Posted by Foxpaw
If an accident happened on the highway and there was 4 witnesses which would be more believable? If 4 witnesses had an identical description of the accident word for word or if all 4 witnesses had a different version and their descriptions were not identical but in general all had the same conclusion.

The 4 gospels while not identical reach to the same place.


I like it and you are getting there but the claim is the witnesses were all told/inspired/coached on what to say.

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 02/06/20 10:51 PM.

-Goofy-
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