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Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768666
02/13/20 10:11 AM
02/13/20 10:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 912
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Kentucky
Mark, I know you weren't comparing doctrines.

Honestly, I didn't know what the word dogma meant, so I looked it up...It means an established opinion.

So you think Mormons and Islamist have the same opinions of there women?....Have you seen how followers of Islam treat their women?

You do know that the Mormon wives chose the other wives for their husbands, right?....Do you think they chose the hottest co-wives around so their husbands could have more sex?..Lol.

It was for procreation, and I'm not talking about the splinter groups, who knows what they do or did....There is such a misunderstanding about polygamy and the mainstream LDS church it's hard to believe.

Joseph Smith might have had a bunch of wives I don't know, or even care...But, the part about the holy father and mother etc. concerns their belief in the pre-existance and all things being in spiritual form in heaven before here on temporal earth.

Of course they aren't going to speak with you about that on a initial visit, you don't have the knowledge of where their even coming from to be able to carry out the conversation....Plus, if I personally were looking for a Mormon conversion from you, I might figure there would be easier converts who didn't think they knew how someone from another faith believed.


Member NRA, FTA, and The UTK.
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768715
02/13/20 11:06 AM
02/13/20 11:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 633
Central montana
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jwill Offline
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Central montana
"you don't have the knowledge of where their even coming from to be able to carry out the conversation".
I dont think you need much knowledge to run from mormanism.As Joseph Smith made the claim in the King Follet discourse..."As man is God once was, and as god is man may become" God is just an exalted man in mormanism. And you can become God through exaltation and with youre wives populate a new solar system. Any religion where you become God is obviously false.


And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement!
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768728
02/13/20 11:14 AM
02/13/20 11:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,987
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Pike River Offline OP
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Wouod be interesting if we start to see matriarchal families where one woman ties down a few fellas with income like in some Indian cultures.

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768729
02/13/20 11:16 AM
02/13/20 11:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,712
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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Quote
Any religion where you become God is obviously false.


Well thats exactly what I think when I hear about walking on water, getting tossed in a furnace and surviving, manna from heaven and a bunch of kids getting killed by a bear for teasing a bald man.


ban gun free zones
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768740
02/13/20 11:25 AM
02/13/20 11:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 912
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 912
Kentucky
I'm not trying to convert anyone....All religions have it wrong IMO.
I'm just explaining why they wouldn't engage him at that point about the subject.

I will say this about Mormons, as a people they have no peer, honest, hard working, clean living, and from sitting through many Mormon services learned they NEVER trash another faith and I find that exceptional.

After sitting through Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, etc. services, and they all trashed other faiths during their services, which is uncalled for.

So yes, I will defend Mormons quite a bit, we can learn a lot from them.....Now, what do y'all think about the Catholic Priests, and what they were doing to all those little boys around the world, which seems 100X worse to me than polygamy.


Member NRA, FTA, and The UTK.
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768763
02/13/20 11:50 AM
02/13/20 11:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,840
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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the way i look at it in the US you have the right to any or no religions belief.

trying to legitimize a religion or belief structure that requires faith as part of it's explanation makes it so that anyone can believe anything and short of one having a longer history than the other they are equally valid under the law.

why the major religions don't really question Pastatarianism , is it a made up religion sure but prove any other isn't using the logic you would use to tear down this one.

and so it is.

I don't have a problem with multiple wife's (spouses) as long as they are all legal adults , whom of their own free will choose the union and may dissolve the union at any time.

whats worse , a woman who has kids with 5 different baby daddies and Baby daddies that have 9 children with 9 different women and support none or a man with 2 wifes and children that he supports fully.

the problem is less that a person would have multiple spouses and more that we have a system of welfare and subsidies that people will exploit to their benefit , they are more likely to be exploiting these benefits when not showing a legal marital status.

clearly not having a system of legal second marriage has turned it into an exploitation of minors as "wives" in many cases.

perhaps a system where the legal adult person spouse had to travel to obtain a marriage license from the state capitol where they could be interviewed independently to determine if this is their free will and offer them a safe way out should they ask for it.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768794
02/13/20 12:19 PM
02/13/20 12:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,712
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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The way i understand it is that in Utah a girl can marry at 14. So a couple marries in their church then registers at the county clerks office. When its time for wife #2 he divorces wife #1 under state law but remains married to her under church law.

By legally marrying a 14 year old child he avoids any charges of statutory rape even if they leave the state of Utah. A man has one legal wife but 4 church wives say, and the church wives have 4-6 kids apiece. They all live on the same piece of property and have communal meals and worship together. Each wife and her kids each have their own mobile home which the husband takes turns visiting in the evening and spending the night in.

So the 4 women he has divorced under state law apply for welfare. Now the husband gets 1/3 or whatever the max is of his paycheck garnished to "pay" for the welfare and medicaid but his wives receive about 20 times that amount in benefits.

It is all a grey area legally and we get to pay for it. Its that whole government foots the bill thing I have a problem with.


ban gun free zones
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: adam m] #6768801
02/13/20 12:26 PM
02/13/20 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,835
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by adam m
Originally Posted by run
King Solomon was a polygamist. 700 wives and 300 concubines.

Yup.
1 wife is a lot but 700 is either insane or genius. Keep in mind Solomon is considered the wisest person ever.


Also, if not the wealthiest, one of the wealthiest in his day.


Burning a gay flag is called a "Hate Crime". But, burning the American flag is FREE SPEECH????
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: ky_coyote_hunter] #6768808
02/13/20 12:30 PM
02/13/20 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,803
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
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Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I'm not trying to convert anyone....All religions have it wrong IMO.
I'm just explaining why they wouldn't engage him at that point about the subject.

I will say this about Mormons, as a people they have no peer, honest, hard working, clean living, and from sitting through many Mormon services learned they NEVER trash another faith and I find that exceptional.

After sitting through Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, etc. services, and they all trashed other faiths during their services, which is uncalled for.

So yes, I will defend Mormons quite a bit, we can learn a lot from them.....Now, what do y'all think about the Catholic Priests, and what they were doing to all those little boys around the world, which seems 100X worse to me than polygamy.

[b][/b]

So I guess you have just started your own.

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768809
02/13/20 12:31 PM
02/13/20 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,144
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Online sick
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Joined: Jan 2018
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MN
Did you know you have over twice as many female recitatives as male. DNA research proves over the course of history females have been far more likely to reproduce than males, it was obvious that most men historically did not have a chance to reproduce and that men of means partnered with multiple women. Then along comes monogamous cultures were every young man has a near equal chance to reproduce, as a result those cultures have far less infighting and will go on to take over and eradicate the cultures who practice Polygamy.

If men of means again become the hoarders of women and that access to quality women is largely regulated to those with wealth then those who see little opportunity to attract a quality mate will have to take greater and greater risk to aquire wealth. Being cutthroat and aggressive will again become the way to get ahead rather than stable.

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768811
02/13/20 12:38 PM
02/13/20 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 794
Cheyenne Wyoming
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Castormound Offline
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Cheyenne Wyoming
Anyone who wants more that 1 wife can have at it!!!!!!!


Antelope, the original fast food!!
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: BernieB.] #6768814
02/13/20 12:40 PM
02/13/20 12:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 767
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
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Posts: 767
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Originally Posted by BernieB.
Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I'm not trying to convert anyone....All religions have it wrong IMO.
I'm just explaining why they wouldn't engage him at that point about the subject.

I will say this about Mormons, as a people they have no peer, honest, hard working, clean living, and from sitting through many Mormon services learned they NEVER trash another faith and I find that exceptional.

After sitting through Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, etc. services, and they all trashed other faiths during their services, which is uncalled for.

So yes, I will defend Mormons quite a bit, we can learn a lot from them.....Now, what do y'all think about the Catholic Priests, and what they were doing to all those little boys around the world, which seems 100X worse to me than polygamy.

[b][/b]

So I guess you have just started your own.


There are over 11,000 documented theisms on earth. Many find the one they themselves deem good.


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Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: danny clifton] #6768817
02/13/20 12:44 PM
02/13/20 12:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,987
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Pike River Offline OP
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Pike River  Offline OP
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by danny clifton


So the 4 women he has divorced under state law apply for welfare. Now the husband gets 1/3 or whatever the max is of his paycheck garnished to "pay" for the welfare and medicaid but his wives receive about 20 times that amount in benefits.

It is all a grey area legally and we get to pay for it. Its that whole government foots the bill thing I have a problem with.

They count household income. Each woman would have to have a unique address not just separate trailers.

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Donnersurvivor] #6768819
02/13/20 12:46 PM
02/13/20 12:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,987
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Pike River Offline OP
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Pike River  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Did you know you have over twice as many female recitatives as male. DNA research proves over the course of history females have been far more likely to reproduce than males, it was obvious that most men historically did not have a chance to reproduce and that men of means partnered with multiple women. Then along comes monogamous cultures were every young man has a near equal chance to reproduce, as a result those cultures have far less infighting and will go on to take over and eradicate the cultures who practice Polygamy.

If men of means again become the hoarders of women and that access to quality women is largely regulated to those with wealth then those who see little opportunity to attract a quality mate will have to take greater and greater risk to aquire wealth. Being cutthroat and aggressive will again become the way to get ahead rather than stable.

Where does adultery fall on the scale between monogamy and polygamy?

Plenty of people live polygamist lifestyles without ever legally registering their relationship. Sometimes the spouse knows...sometimes not.

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768822
02/13/20 12:57 PM
02/13/20 12:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,972
SWMo.
T
tjm Online content
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tjm  Online Content
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SWMo.
Take the church out of it, is everyone still opposed to polygamy?

Any men here have a second or third wife?

Does the Judeo-Christian God made marriage "forming one flesh" "til death do we part" doctrine not mean that all those marriages cannot be broken by civil divorce?
The same doctrine as a Church Marriage?
So are the twice (or more) married Christian men adulterers or polygamists?

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768823
02/13/20 12:59 PM
02/13/20 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,144
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Online sick
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Online Sick
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Posts: 1,144
MN
Originally Posted by Pike River

Where does adultery fall on the scale between monogamy and polygamy?

Plenty of people live polygamist lifestyles without ever legally registering their relationship. Sometimes the spouse knows...sometimes not.


Plenty of people were living gay lifestyles before it became legal to marry. Only a couple years after it became legal it became widely accepted to the point we are praising castrating children, allowing 8 year olds to dance on bar tops while men throw money at them, teaching about gay sex in schools and allowing trannys to come read to kids in public schools and librarys wearing dresses.

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: tjm] #6768824
02/13/20 01:01 PM
02/13/20 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,144
MN
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Donnersurvivor Online sick
trapper
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MN
Originally Posted by tjm
Take the church out of it, is everyone still opposed to polygamy?


Done, Church is out of it for me. I oppose gay marriage, polygamy, legalized drugs (to various degrees). I do not practice religion, I am just a Conservative who would like to see the country and culture continue.

Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: BernieB.] #6768831
02/13/20 01:12 PM
02/13/20 01:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 912
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 912
Kentucky
Originally Posted by BernieB.
Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I'm not trying to convert anyone....All religions have it wrong IMO.
I'm just explaining why they wouldn't engage him at that point about the subject.

I will say this about Mormons, as a people they have no peer, honest, hard working, clean living, and from sitting through many Mormon services learned they NEVER trash another faith and I find that exceptional.

After sitting through Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, etc. services, and they all trashed other faiths during their services, which is uncalled for.

So yes, I will defend Mormons quite a bit, we can learn a lot from them.....Now, what do y'all think about the Catholic Priests, and what they were doing to all those little boys around the world, which seems 100X worse to me than polygamy.

[b][/b]

So I guess you have just started your own.


No, Just choose to focus on Christ


Member NRA, FTA, and The UTK.
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: danny clifton] #6768836
02/13/20 01:18 PM
02/13/20 01:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 912
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
trapper
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 912
Kentucky
Originally Posted by danny clifton
The way i understand it is that in Utah a girl can marry at 14. So a couple marries in their church then registers at the county clerks office. When its time for wife #2 he divorces wife #1 under state law but remains married to her under church law.

By legally marrying a 14 year old child he avoids any charges of statutory rape even if they leave the state of Utah. A man has one legal wife but 4 church wives say, and the church wives have 4-6 kids apiece. They all live on the same piece of property and have communal meals and worship together. Each wife and her kids each have their own mobile home which the husband takes turns visiting in the evening and spending the night in.

So the 4 women he has divorced under state law apply for welfare. Now the husband gets 1/3 or whatever the max is of his paycheck garnished to "pay" for the welfare and medicaid but his wives receive about 20 times that amount in benefits.

It is all a grey area legally and we get to pay for it. Its that whole government foots the bill thing I have a problem with.


Hey Danny,

You can marry in Utah at 18 without parental consent, or 16 with parental consent.....Very well may have been 14 in the past though.


Member NRA, FTA, and The UTK.
Re: Utah Going Back To Polygamy? [Re: Pike River] #6768843
02/13/20 01:23 PM
02/13/20 01:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,712
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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looks like they changed it to 15 and a judge has to be involved



https://statelaws.findlaw.com/utah-law/utah-marriage-age-requirements-laws.html


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