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Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! #6769903
02/14/20 10:45 AM
02/14/20 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Lincoln County, Missouri
ol' dad Offline OP
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Can't pray before a high school basketball game but you can wear your turban to combat... :puke:

Wonder if that makes them an easier target for the enemy?.....or perhaps, not a threat?

ol' dad

SSGT- USAF- 1998-2003- OEF


https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/us/air-force-dress-code-sikhs-muslims-trnd/index.html

(CNN)The US Air Force has updated its dress code policy to outline a clear approval process for Sikhs and Muslims who want to serve while wearing their articles of faith.

Under the new guidelines, which were finalized last week, Sikhs and Muslims can seek a religious accommodation to wear turbans, beards, unshorn hair and hijabs, and expect to be approved as long as their appearance is "neat and conservative," except under extremely limited circumstances.
The final review for the accommodation must take place within 30 days for cases in the United States, and 60 days for all other cases, according to the guidelines. And for the most part, airmen can expect the religious accommodation to follow them through their career.

Previously, Sikhs and Muslims serving in the Air Force individually requested religious accommodations that were granted on a case-by-case basis, but the approval process could be lengthy.
This update standardizes that process and outlines a formal timeline for approval.
Advocacy organizations say more needs to be done
Sikh and Muslim advocacy organizations said the move was a significant step toward inclusion, though some said that the military needs to go further.
"We support these new guidelines as a step toward religious accommodation and inclusion for military personnel of all faiths," Ibrahim Hooper, national communications director for the Council of American-Islamic Relations, said in a statement.

Both the Sikh Coalition and the Sikh American Veterans Alliance (SAVA) have called on the US military to allow religious minorities to serve without exception.
"Sikhs have served honorably and capably in the U.S. Armed Forces and other militaries around the world, and while we are eager for a blanket proclamation that all observant Sikh Americans can serve in every branch of the military without seeking accommodations, this policy clarification is a great step forward towards ensuring equality of opportunity and religious freedom in the Air Force," Giselle Klapper, a staff attorney for the Sikh Coalition, said in a statement.
SAVA President Kamal Singh Kalsi said that the Department of Defense should institute a broader policy that applies across all branches of the military, following the example set by the US Army in 2017.
"The Department of Defense should have a consistent and department wide policy on religious accommodation," Kalsi said in a news release. "Those who are committed and qualified to serve our country in uniform should be able to do so in a more streamlined and efficient manner."

A handful of Sikhs and Muslims have received accommodations to serve in the Air Force while wearing their articles of faith.
On Wednesday, the Sikh Coalition announced that Airman 1st Class Gurchetan Singh became the first Sikh American to receive an accommodation to serve in the Air National Guard.
Last June, SAVA announced that Airman 1st Class Harpreetinder Singh Bajwa became the first active duty airman to receive religious accommodation allowing him to serve with the Sikh turban and beard -- a process that took nearly six months.
Airmen 1st Class Sunjit Singh Rathour and Jaspreet Singh received religious accommodations last year.

And in 2018, Maysaa Ouza, now a captain, made history as the first officer in the Air Force's Judge Advocate General's Corps authorized to wear a hijab, a reflection of her Muslim faith.


Criminals should be thankful for law enforcement. It's the alternative to getting shot
Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6769911
02/14/20 10:55 AM
02/14/20 10:55 AM
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Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6769917
02/14/20 11:06 AM
02/14/20 11:06 AM
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it makes sense in the regard that we need Arabic speakers in our armed forces and teaching white boys to speak fluent Arabic is a lengthy process.

I had a Sikh doctor he wore a turban all the time he was a bit hard to understand but valued the same American ideals as us , the UN has had Sikh's wear blue Turnbans for many years , the Sikh's have very american values and can be an asset to our armed services.

who better to guide things in Afghanistan and Iraq than American Muslim women , so what if they wear a hijab , can you imagine how much that is going to empower Afghani women to see a Muslim woman in the security force and peeve off the Taliban and Isis.


Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 02/14/20 11:07 AM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6769937
02/14/20 11:30 AM
02/14/20 11:30 AM
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But no bible verse on dog tags

Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6769943
02/14/20 11:38 AM
02/14/20 11:38 AM
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christian soldiers should be able to wear a cross patch or pin or something to show their faith also I agree same for Jews a star of David and a Yamaka / Kippa.

fair and equal should be the way


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6769948
02/14/20 11:41 AM
02/14/20 11:41 AM
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Lincoln County, Missouri
ol' dad Offline OP
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Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
the Sikh's have very american values and can be an asset to our armed services.



Apparently not, or they would conform to our tradition of unity within the armed forces. I'd rather not be standing next to someone wearing a turban when the enemy is looking for a target and there are just two of us to choose from. Could work in my favor, who knows. But it goes against the tradition of uniformity. I didn't particularly care to have my head shaved when I joined. I looked worse than ET.

ol'dad


Criminals should be thankful for law enforcement. It's the alternative to getting shot
Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6769981
02/14/20 12:14 PM
02/14/20 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ol' dad
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
the Sikh's have very american values and can be an asset to our armed services.



Apparently not, or they would conform to our tradition of unity within the armed forces. I'd rather not be standing next to someone wearing a turban when the enemy is looking for a target and there are just two of us to choose from. Could work in my favor, who knows. But it goes against the tradition of uniformity. I didn't particularly care to have my head shaved when I joined. I looked worse than ET.

ol'dad

ok besides a religious belief in not cutting ones hair similar to Orthodox Jews.

do we give them all a pass on all military service or do we make some reasonable exceptions to uniform to incorporate more Americans into our defense.
we don't make women shave their heads for basic so exceptions are already being made.
you could be standing next to a woman also , could work in your favor or maybe not.

in most cases Sikh are already Multi lingual and that is a valuable asset in a global theater of operations.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770001
02/14/20 12:43 PM
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In the late 60's there was a guy in my wing that was a Muslim, and was allowed to wear a full beard, keep a Puppy and a large sword in the barrack's. Got special chow too.


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Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770004
02/14/20 12:50 PM
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as Bob points out exceptions have been made for many years . the article was saying they have been making a case by case exception they are really just setting a standard for some common religions and making it a more stream line process.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770008
02/14/20 12:56 PM
02/14/20 12:56 PM
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Sikhs and Muslims have hated each other for a long time. I doubt the Air Force would put both in one unit. The Muslims tried to exterminate the Sikhs in the recent past.

Sihk men have to carry knives by their religious law. I suspect one of the vague accommodations mentioned is that they will be allowed to carry knives at all times.

Canadian Sikhs keep trudeau in power.

The military needs to be a cohesive whole to work well. I think this is a bad idea overall, but it is very unlikely that a significant number of American Muslims and Sikhs will join up.

Keith

Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: KeithC] #6770014
02/14/20 01:05 PM
02/14/20 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KeithC
Sikhs and Muslims have hated each other for a long time. I doubt the Air Force would put both in one unit. The Muslims tried to exterminate the Sikhs in the recent past.

Sihk men have to carry knives by their religious law. I suspect one of the vague accommodations mentioned is that they will be allowed to carry knives at all times.

Canadian Sikhs keep trudeau in power.

The military needs to be a cohesive whole to work well. I think this is a bad idea overall, but it is very unlikely that a significant number of American Muslims and Sikhs will join up.

Keith

They will infiltrate over time...bide their time ......its Not in any way Good


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Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770030
02/14/20 01:19 PM
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Muslims as a whole have not had a particularly stellar service record.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/08/muslim-soldiers-attack-troops/

"Some Islamic fighting men have plotted attacks against their fellow servicemembers.
Bronze Star and Purple Heart recipient Captain Humayun Khan died heroically. But his exceptional courage in Iraq and his Muslim father’s post-Democratic-convention histrionics on TV do not erase the security threat posed by killer warriors of Allah infiltrating our troops.

Don’t take my word for it. Ask all the forgotten Gold Star moms and dads who have lost their children because politically correct pushovers at the Pentagon looked the other way at the Muslim military menace.

Don’t take my word for it. Just reread the ignored warnings issued by Muslim soldier Nidal Hasan, the vengeful mass murderer who gunned down 13 service members — including a pregnant private first class who lost her life and her child — and wounded more than 30 others at Fort Hood in 2009.

Two years before his rampage, while a senior-year medical-school resident in psychiatry, U.S. Army major Hasan delivered a 50-slide PowerPoint presentation to classmates and military superiors at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. It was titled “The Koranic World View as It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military.” Quoting chapter and verse, Hasan illuminated “what the Koran inculcates in the minds of Muslims and the potential implications this may have for the U.S. military.”

Hasan cited the Verse of the Sword (“I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah”), explained “offensive” and “defensive” jihad, and summarized the concept of “abrogation” — in which warring verses of the Koran trumped “peaceful verses.”

In Slide 11, Hasan bemoaned: “It’s getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims.”

Slide 48 warned: “If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the ‘infidels;’ i.e.: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary i.e.: suicide bombing, etc. We love death more then [sic] you love life!”

Under Conclusions, Hasan recommended that the Department of Defense “allow Muslim Soldiers the option of being released as ‘conscientious objectors’ to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events.” Cowed military superiors ignored the presentation, just as they had dismissed complaints from fellow students who noted Hasan’s exaltation of sharia over the Constitution and his support for suicide bombings.

“Adverse events” was Hasan’s euphemism for bloody jihad attacks and betrayals by Muslim soldiers against their fellow U.S. soldiers. He included a case I’ve never forgotten: Traitor Hasan Akbar, the 326th Engineer Battalion Muslim-American soldier who lobbed stolen hand grenades and shot his M-4 automatic rifle into three tents filled with sleeping commanding officers at the 101st Airborne Division’s 1st Brigade operations center in Kuwait in 2003.

Captain Christopher Seifert, 27, and Major Gregory Stone, 40, died during the fragging. Fourteen others suffered wounds from grenade shrapnel.


Willful blindness to a Muslim-American soldier’s fundamental internal conflict of loyalties led to those murders and injuries. Despite several incidents of insubordination and Akbar’s prior invocation of his Islamic beliefs to skip out of the 1991 Persian Gulf War, his superiors sent him to Kuwait — and put him in charge of clearing land mines.

Willful blindness to a Muslim-American soldier’s fundamental internal conflict of loyalties led to murders and injuries.

A decade later, in 2013, Muslim-American Navy veteran Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif and an accomplice were convicted of plotting to kill officers and employees at a Seattle military recruiting center. The would-be killers wanted to retaliate against “the American military presence in the Middle East” and to prevent our troops “from going to Islamic lands and killing Muslims.” The co-conspirators cited Nidal Hasan’s Fort Hood attack as inspiration.

In March of this year, U.S. Air Force vet and avionics-weapons-systems expert Tairod Nathan Webster Pugh, who declared himself a “mujahid,” was convicted of providing material support to ISIS. A year earlier, 22-year-old Army National Guard specialist Hasan Edmonds was arrested on his way overseas to join the Islamic State. He had plotted attacks on his Illinois National Guard Armory, police stations, and courts.

Over the years, I’ve reported on many more of Allah’s soldiers in American uniforms, including:

Army soldier Ali Mohamed, who pleaded guilty to conspiring with Osama bin Laden to “attack any Western target in the Middle East” and admitted his role in the 1998 African embassy bombings.

Naval reservist Semi Osman, linked to a terrorist training camp in Oregon.

Army reservist Jeffrey Leon Battle, who pleaded guilty to conspiring to levy war against the United States.

Navy sailor Hassan Abu-Jihaad, convicted on charges of espionage and material support for terrorism after serving aboard the USS Benfold and sharing classified information with al-Qaeda financiers, including U.S. ship movements prior to the USS Cole bombing in Yemen.

U.S. Army private first class Naser Jason Abdo, who plotted to kill his fellow soldiers to “get even” with the military and strike at kafirs (non-Muslims).

COMMENTS
The military’s Muslim-chaplains program has been similarly compromised by radical imams tied to the jihad-waging Muslim Brotherhood.

This is not “Islamophobia.” This is fact: Not all U.S. Muslim soldiers are equal. To deny the deadly risk is to enable it."

Keith

Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770036
02/14/20 01:23 PM
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I did not serve so I may be all wet, I thought that uniformity was one of the major things about the military. Everyone the same, one team. This to me seems like it will bring division in to the ranks. Just my opinion.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770111
02/14/20 02:27 PM
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And here we go.


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Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: Flipper] #6770117
02/14/20 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Flipper
But no bible verse on dog tags

Last time I checked your allowed to wear one religious item on your dog tags. I know plenty of folks who wear crosses pentagrams and so on.
And I've seen plenty of Jewish troops with their little hats ( I don't know the proper name sorry ) in uniform so idk. If it's AR670-1 compliant who cares


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Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ND FTA] #6770118
02/14/20 02:33 PM
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Army might as well get rid of the Green Berets,

and march out the "Purple Turbans", or whatever.

GEEZE !!!! frown


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Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770130
02/14/20 02:46 PM
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We've had that kind of horsesxxt up here for years. In the Armed service, police forces and civilian laws. Getting to be a sad state of affairs. I hope that pendulum swings back pretty quick before they get a stronger foothold. I believe we are farther down the sewer than you guys.

Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770282
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The scotchmen in the war were allowed to wear their bonnets with the toorie on top.
When the germans seen them coming they ran-they thought the red toories on top were bombs.

Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: Boco] #6770527
02/14/20 09:36 PM
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The good news out of all this for those that feel so upset about this is that in today's world you volunteer to serve and if so you can decide to accept or reject what take place and deal with the consequences of ones action. For those that don't like what takes place stay home and complain. Based on the percentage of men and women in service the huge majority of us choose not to serve.

Bryce

Re: Air Force updates dress code - Bring your turban! [Re: ol' dad] #6770772
02/15/20 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ol' dad
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
the Sikh's have very american values and can be an asset to our armed services.



Apparently not, or they would conform to our tradition of unity within the armed forces. I'd rather not be standing next to someone wearing a turban when the enemy is looking for a target and there are just two of us to choose from. Could work in my favor, who knows. But it goes against the tradition of uniformity. I didn't particularly care to have my head shaved when I joined. I looked worse than ET.

ol'dad

x2
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