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Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: brianmall] #6770903
02/15/20 09:58 AM
02/15/20 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by brianmall
Your good deeds won't save you! All sin is equal in the eyes of the Lord! Doesn't matter how good or bad you are period! Only sin that will forever condem you to H3ll is rejecting His Son Jesus Christ!


Romans 3:22-23,25-28 KJVS
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28] [b]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.[/b]

Actually there are two types of sins
Mortal sins are contrasted with venial sins, which usually involve a less serious action and are committed with less self-awareness of wrongdoing. While a venial sin weakens the sinner's union with God, it is not a deliberate turning away from him and so does not wholly block the inflow of sanctifying grace.
Britannica.com › topic › cardinal-sin
mortal sin | Definition & Examples | Britannica
What is considered a mortal sin?
According to Catholicism, a venial sin is a lesser sin that does not result in a complete separation from God


Nevada bound
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: danny clifton] #6770905
02/15/20 09:58 AM
02/15/20 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
Choose hades? Choose Christ? Where do you get this stuff? Just because you think its a real thing doesn't mean everyone does. The idea of a hades or a man god is so ridiculous I honestly don't know how any rational person could believe they exist.



Why? For what proof do you have to make such claims?

We're your here at the begining of time? Science right? What?

Last edited by brianmall; 02/15/20 09:59 AM.
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Bruce T] #6770909
02/15/20 10:01 AM
02/15/20 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce T
Originally Posted by brianmall
Your good deeds won't save you! All sin is equal in the eyes of the Lord! Doesn't matter how good or bad you are period! Only sin that will forever condem you to H3ll is rejecting His Son Jesus Christ!


Romans 3:22-23,25-28 KJVS
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28] [b]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.[/b]

Actually there are two types of sins
Mortal sins are contrasted with venial sins, which usually involve a less serious action and are committed with less self-awareness of wrongdoing. While a venial sin weakens the sinner's union with God, it is not a deliberate turning away from him and so does not wholly block the inflow of sanctifying grace.
Britannica.com › topic › cardinal-sin
mortal sin | Definition & Examples | Britannica
What is considered a mortal sin?
According to Catholicism, a venial sin is a lesser sin that does not result in a complete separation from God



We call it reprobate.

Still, All I said I'd biblical.

And this is why you shouldn't trust men (Catholicism)! Your priest will be leading you straight to H3ll.

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770911
02/15/20 10:02 AM
02/15/20 10:02 AM
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But yes Bruce

At some point your sin can cause you to pass a no turning back point in which God gives you over to reprobate mind.

And maybe even demonic possession!

Last edited by brianmall; 02/15/20 10:03 AM.
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770914
02/15/20 10:04 AM
02/15/20 10:04 AM
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Anyone who thinks you need to be good enough for God, or that there is some kind of balance or being virtuous enough, just needs to look at the two thieves on the crosses on either side of Jesus. One had been a lifelong criminal but moments before he died, he gave verbal witness that he believed Jesus was God and he was saved to go to heaven right then and there, moments before his death. That moment right there encapsulated the entire Gospel.

I have been asked, why do bad things happen to good people? Well, because there are no good people. We are all sinners. We do not have the ability to choose which people we think are goo based on our own standards. Not long ago I was having a conversation with a Catholic about grace and forgiveness and salvation and he kept adamantly saying that we have to live up to God's standards. He just couldn't let go of that. My answer was this: God doesn't have standards! He has just one standard, perfection. God is perfect and no one who is imperfect can be in his presence. We cannot live up to His standard so we must depend on Jesus who put our sin to death on the cross and defeated that death. When Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the life, he was saying that he is the only portal to God and an eternity with God in heaven.This is the entire theme of Christianity and permeates the entire Bible. Unfortunately it has been perverted by many religions that want to serve themselves rather than God and the Catholics are number one in that category, but there are many others from legalistic Baptists, TV evangelists and right on down the line.

We just need to keep the main thing the main thing, the devil has a lot of ways to get us off course.

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: danny clifton] #6770915
02/15/20 10:04 AM
02/15/20 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
Choose hades? Choose Christ? Where do you get this stuff? Just because you think its a real thing doesn't mean everyone does. The idea of a hades or a man god is so ridiculous I honestly don't know how any rational person could believe they exist.

I look at it this way.I have nothing to loose.If I'm wrong we both rot in the ground but if your wrong you won't be rotting in the ground.


Nevada bound
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770920
02/15/20 10:07 AM
02/15/20 10:07 AM
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To all Catholics and Prodistant denominations

I do believe there are truly saved folks in these denominations! But it's because you or your priest were actually reading and preaching God's word! And you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior.

You all need to read some history books though. For years you all killed those around you for doing just that!!!

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: danny clifton] #6770923
02/15/20 10:09 AM
02/15/20 10:09 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by danny clifton
Choose hades? Where do you get this stuff? Just because you think its a real thing doesn't mean everyone does. The idea of a hades is so ridiculous I honestly don't know how any rational person could believe it exists.


Good point danny.
For those who don't have faith in the God of the Bible
They sure don't have faith in the Inspired Word of it.
Why would they? It's foolishness to them.

The era of humanism (rationalism) you speak of danny started back about 300 years ago and really gained momentum of intellect in the 1800's.
If something could not be
duplicated
and/or
observed
it was deemed false.

That's where we are today.
Boy-oh-boy, how often do we all follow that "rationale!"
I know I'm guilty far too often.

And then I wonder, how come, Darwin and his family and crew of evolutionists never demonstrated repeatability and visibility of their thesis - the premise that changed all of our world so completely? They never made a species transform (poof) into another species. They didn't have to fit the rational criteria of their 1800 days? How come? You know there's never yet been a proven trans- species transformation (evolution). One species becomes another. Strong survives and (poof) one species becomes another. That way goo from the swamp can crawl up and become rational thinkers on TMan. Easy-peasy.
But it's not proven. None of it. Never has been.
Yet, our teachers told us all of it as "fact." Correct?
We believe it (most - but not me).
Why?
Because we don't want to believe that we are not able to deem what is good in our eyes, and we don't like other folks telling us that either.
Now that CAN be observed and replicated. I just have to walk down the street.

As it was in the original creation, the woman - not yet called Eve - decided, that she could see-take-decide what is good in her eyes.


Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: brianmall] #6770924
02/15/20 10:10 AM
02/15/20 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by brianmall
To all Catholics and Prodistant denominations

I do believe there are truly saved folks in these denominations! But it's because you or your priest were actually reading and preaching God's word! And you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior.

You all need to read some history books though. For years you all killed those around you for doing just that!!!

I would sure hate to be them facing God.


Nevada bound
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770926
02/15/20 10:12 AM
02/15/20 10:12 AM
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Lol

There is actually a Prodistant priest on record saying that all his chickens were turning to ducks as he preached from the Bible. Meaning once he broke away from all the position and tradition and started shucking it down to the cob. His congregation became something else! Then they were labeled Anna Baptist and we're killed by the other prodistants and Catholics.

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770927
02/15/20 10:13 AM
02/15/20 10:13 AM
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Read trail of blood or day in Baptist history.

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770928
02/15/20 10:13 AM
02/15/20 10:13 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



It's gonna be the serious moment when our Lord says, "Can I speak with you in private for a moment?"

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770936
02/15/20 10:17 AM
02/15/20 10:17 AM
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Gonna go run dogs

So I'll exit by saying there are some Prodistant folks out there that are more Baptist than some "Baptist" are! Just haven't changed the name on the sign yet! There are some Baptist churches that should take the name off!

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: brianmall] #6770938
02/15/20 10:19 AM
02/15/20 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by brianmall
Lol

There is actually a Prodistant priest on record saying that all his chickens were turning to ducks as he preached from the Bible. Meaning once he broke away from all the position and tradition and started shucking it down to the cob. His congregation became something else! Then they were labeled Anna Baptist and we're killed by the other prodistants and Catholics.

So they were going against Gods wishes by killing people and are no longer part of Jesus's church.Jesus warned to not change one word in his church or you are no longer following his church.


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Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770942
02/15/20 10:21 AM
02/15/20 10:21 AM
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No christ no heaven
Know christ know heaven

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6770945
02/15/20 10:23 AM
02/15/20 10:23 AM
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Mark I wasn't alive 300 years ago

Bernie are you saying when a 3 year old is suffering because of a horrible cancer, or starving to death in Somalia, or even born addicted to heroin or crack, it is because they are a sinner and deserve it?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: BernieB.] #6770951
02/15/20 10:29 AM
02/15/20 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BernieB.
Anyone who thinks you need to be good enough for God, or that there is some kind of balance or being virtuous enough, just needs to look at the two thieves on the crosses on either side of Jesus. One had been a lifelong criminal but moments before he died, he gave verbal witness that he believed Jesus was God and he was saved to go to heaven right then and there, moments before his death. That moment right there encapsulated the entire Gospel.

I have been asked, why do bad things happen to good people? Well, because there are no good people. We are all sinners. We do not have the ability to choose which people we think are goo based on our own standards. Not long ago I was having a conversation with a Catholic about grace and forgiveness and salvation and he kept adamantly saying that we have to live up to God's standards. He just couldn't let go of that. My answer was this: God doesn't have standards! He has just one standard, perfection. God is perfect and no one who is imperfect can be in his presence. We cannot live up to His standard so we must depend on Jesus who put our sin to death on the cross and defeated that death. When Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the life, he was saying that he is the only portal to God and an eternity with God in heaven.This is the entire theme of Christianity and permeates the entire Bible. Unfortunately it has been perverted by many religions that want to serve themselves rather than God and the Catholics are number one in that category, but there are many others from legalistic Baptists, TV evangelists and right on down the line.

We just need to keep the main thing the main thing, the devil has a lot of ways to get us off course.


Thanks Bernie. You are spot on. I have had similar conversations about this very thing. How do God fearing folks vote for someone who thinks marriage is man on man or woman on woman? How do they vote for folks who want abortion to be used as birth control? Lots of people are perverted because they are told what to believe instead of reading God's holy word and letting the Spirit of the Lord interpret that into their minds. LLL


Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: James] #6770952
02/15/20 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by James
I was raised Catholic and taught you get to heaven through belief in Jesus AND through good works. I've been told many Protestants dispense with the second requirement.

I used to torment my parents with questions like this one: If Adolf Hitler had accepted Jesus, after taking the cyanide pill, would he be in heaven--alongside the six million Jews who were his victims?

As a variation of Pascal's wager, how about if you lead a debauched, wicked life, with the plan of accepting Jesus on your death bed? Of course, your conversion would have to be sincere--but sincerity would be easy if you're looking at eternity.

Jim


Same here James. My testimony of my salvation is a long one.

1) protestants disagree with Catholics about works as a requirement salvation because if you are saved you will desire to do the will of God. The will of God is way more than God deeds Hebrews 11 is a perfect example. It talks about many people who showed their faith through works even though some of those works were sacrificial like Abraham offering up Isaac, moses suffering affliction, the walls of Jericho fell faith etc... keep in mind that when the Bible is talking about faith and works together, works is not just good or bad deeds it is doing the will of God.

2) Hitler, or any other person could receive salvation at the last moment. The kicker is most don't know when they are going to die. The problem lies at the heart, a person can run from the calling of salvation but they eventually will accept it. The apostle Paul is a good example.

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Bruce T] #6770954
02/15/20 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce T
Originally Posted by brianmall
To all Catholics and Prodistant denominations

I do believe there are truly saved folks in these denominations! But it's because you or your priest were actually reading and preaching God's word! And you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior.

You all need to read some history books though. For years you all killed those around you for doing just that!!!

I would sure hate to be them facing God.

So, you both say that all the Catholic and all the Protestant denominations are wrong in their doctrines? I'd like to see a list of heresies by denomination and can you specify which non- protestant denomination is right?

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: danny clifton] #6770957
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
Choose hades? Choose Christ? Where do you get this stuff? Just because you think its a real thing doesn't mean everyone does. The idea of a hades or a man god is so ridiculous I honestly don't know how any rational person could believe they exist.


It's admittedly hard to accept some things written in the Bible. We believe for example, that only two of every kind of animal were saved from a flood, and that every animal today descended from them. Dogs for example....there were two canines, and every dog, wolf, coyote, and fox descended from them. Seems kinda ridiculous, sure. But an atheist believes those dogs, wolves, coyotes, and foxes descended from non-living stuff that suddenly by accident became alive and then ate stuff and then by accident became a multi-celled plant and then accidentally became an animal in the ocean and then accidentally became a land animal and then accidentally became a wolf. Which is more ridiculous?

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