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Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: KeithC] #6771625
02/15/20 07:17 PM
02/15/20 07:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
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Bruce T  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by KeithC
Originally Posted by Bruce T
Go with Jesus Christ.Look thru the bibles and do what Jesus would do.


"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I think if you try your best to follow these 2 commandments, you will come out okay, if God is truly good, which I think he is, because creation and people are overall basically good. The second commandment, with variations tends to be at the core of most religions.

Keith

You can't go wrong with that.


Nevada bound
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6771658
02/15/20 07:42 PM
02/15/20 07:42 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,488
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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F

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,488
Southern Illinois
If you believe you are elected to position then doing those works mentioned above would fit. But if you are doing those works for any other reason than its what you do as an impulse because that's who you are as a believer, then your works may be void as in trying to work your way in.

If you believe you are elected to salvation purely by God's grace because you were too corrupt or not smart enough to make the choice to choose God. And none of those good works are following you then maybe you may need another dip, before you meet the status of once in grace always in grace.

I believe if the prodigal son had not returned to the Father and had a heart attack or got ate by the pigs before he returned , he would have been lost. In other words I do believe one can fall from grace.

There the cat's out of the bag !

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6771677
02/15/20 07:55 PM
02/15/20 07:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2006
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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
Jesus never visited my Japanese in-laws. They never heard the Word.

My mother-in-law lived her entire life without ever a chance to be "saved," as Christians would call it. She was born and married to Shinto ceremonies, and buried according to Buddhist ones. (A curious Japanese custom.)

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: James] #6771690
02/15/20 08:09 PM
02/15/20 08:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
trapper
Bruce T  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by James
Jesus never visited my Japanese in-laws. They never heard the Word.

My mother-in-law lived her entire life without ever a chance to be "saved," as Christians would call it. She was born and married to Shinto ceremonies, and buried according to Buddhist ones. (A curious Japanese custom.)

Jim

They might make it to heaven by not knowing any better from what I have read in the bible.


Nevada bound
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: James] #6771692
02/15/20 08:10 PM
02/15/20 08:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by James
Jesus never visited my Japanese in-laws. They never heard the Word.


I have a very dear friend who was a missionary pastor to Japan. A brilliant man who taught himself to speak the language and he does so fluently. He ministers to exchange students on the Fairbanks campus today. You might have heard of him. He has been a thorn in the side of the faculty for years and they've done nothing but try to run him off. You can't thwart God.

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6771794
02/15/20 09:17 PM
02/15/20 09:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,653
Central Texas
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Chancey Offline
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Chancey  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,653
Central Texas
Originally Posted by Grandpa Trapper
if they live a virtuous life?


No, I don't believe so Grandpa Trapper. Virtue is a matter of opinion among man, dependent upon what state of mind or cultural norm fits the bill.

I take the Bible very literally. The Creator of the Universe gave us an instruction notebook and set of rules to live by. It is called the Bible.

Every single one of us (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, preachers. saints, rabbis, agnostics, and good ole boys) are doomed no matter how "virtuous" we are. WE (all of us) are doomed because we are fallen and sinful. Every single one of us is SIN positive in the eyes of a Just, Holy, Righteous, and Perfect God. This is one of the reasons so many have a hard time with Leviticus.....we as sinful man have a hard time understanding the Holiness of God the Creator of All. The Book of Leviticus (authored mostly by God himself), points out every single one of our flaws, unrighteousness, uncleanliness, etc. I admit, its a hard pill to swallow, but that is because of our prideful and sinful nature. The Book of Leviticus is intended to show us our short comings compared to God rather than make us squirm. This is why we need a Savior.

Most of us 'think' we are doing good if we follow the 10 Commandments, but Jesus raised the bar exponentially when He delivered the Sermon on the Mount. Every single one of us cannot stand in the presence of the Lord. This predicament is the heart of question you are asking Grandpa Trapper..... How can a Just and Holy God reconcile sinful man? This is the question of all eternity.

He can do it, because He sent His one and only Son, a piece of Himself to cover our sins for us, if we only accept it. God's salvation is a gift, and like any gift, one does not have to accept it.

Jesus Christ is the skin that we as sinners today put on to cover us. In Genesis, after the original sin, God made clothes from animal skins in order to cover Adam and Eve. There had not been death in Eden until that point as for as I'm aware. He (YHVH) was teaching them a very important lesson. That lesson is that only by the shedding of innocent blood will they be covered.

Today, we are covered by that same commitment and covenant through our Lord Jesus Christ (The only perfect MAN without SIN to walk the face of the earth). We are saved through the Blood of the Lamb.

I wish you peace and happiness Grandpa Trapper. Chancey


Resident Conspiracy Theorist
Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: James] #6772008
02/16/20 01:50 AM
02/16/20 01:50 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,488
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,488
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by James
Jesus never visited my Japanese in-laws. They never heard the Word.

My mother-in-law lived her entire life without ever a chance to be "saved," as Christians would call it. She was born and married to Shinto ceremonies, and buried according to Buddhist ones. (A curious Japanese custom.)

Jim


Well, if one says they missed the boat, then maybe if the calendar changes and we have no news of it until 3 months later and I had bills to pay at the first of the year I guess I might get forclosed on and would be an April's fool. I think God is a just God and won't be playing any April fools jokes on people that don't have the information they need. If God is a just God he will judge us on what info. we've been given. In the case where they have never even heard the gospel he will judge the person with what they do have which is : Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.
They have that much and will be judged by that, and Jesus did die for the whole mankind, the payment was paid and just because the recipient didn't receive notice doesn't mean its void.

I don't see how anyone can say that man is so void of understanding and thus not capable to choose for himself who he and his family will follow, and therefore they are predestined to election of salvation by God and are in an elite group of once in Grace always in Grace. I don't believe that way but if I did, I would not be so arrogant to believe that someone else who has lived a good life but hadn't received the news their bill had been paid, would fry.

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6772014
02/16/20 02:44 AM
02/16/20 02:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
Good answer, Foxpaw.

I have trouble with the idea that anyone deserves to fry for eternity, but at least in my case I was put on notice. Not so for my in-laws.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6772016
02/16/20 03:22 AM
02/16/20 03:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
T
tjm Offline
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SWMo.
Protestants as group say there five "only" ways to get there and each of those "only" ways by virtue of being an "only" excludes all the other ways.

I don't find the Gospel flawed but modern interpretation defies basic logic.
One. One God, one gospel, one interpretation, one Church, one denomination. All who think there can be many denominations based on many interpretations are saying that neither they nor the other denominations really believe the Scripture.

How much of what is commonly recognized as "Christian" doctrine is taken from Jesus' own words and teaching and how much people telling other people what they think Jesus meant to say?

Re: Can an Atheist or Agnostic go to Heaven [Re: tjm] #6772095
02/16/20 08:55 AM
02/16/20 08:55 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by tjm


How much of what is commonly recognized as "Christian" doctrine is taken from Jesus' own words and teaching and how much people telling other people what they think Jesus meant to say?



To you, the wise man. May your tribe increase.

One particular text seems pretty straight forward from a man who was personally witness to the power of God: Saul, a Roman Jew, renowned for his ability to track down and kill early believers of "The Way," as it was known, but who himself was transformed by miracle, design, and grace on the road to Damascus - into the Apostle Paul who wrote, with the Inspiration of the Spirit, much of our New Testament text.
He would routinely suffer terribly at the hands of non-believers of that 1st century, and die a gruesome death for his faith.

In Paul's letter to the church in Ephesus;
Ephesians 1:13

"In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

The best promise ever made available.

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