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Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: Gary Benson] #6820526
03/28/20 02:52 PM
03/28/20 02:52 PM
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Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Gary Benson
I wouldn't even have a problem with it if there wasn't so much evil waiting at every opportunity. I don't think it's constitutional but folks have to take their own personal safety into mind at some point.



I believe it is Constitutional but I certainly share your concerns about the potential for mischief


Mean As Nails
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820535
03/28/20 02:59 PM
03/28/20 02:59 PM
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Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
I feel it's a common sense call. There are and have been a lot of so called "healthy people" who didn't feel sick ended up with the virus even though they didn't have any symptoms. By the time they did have symptoms, it was too late for the rest of the people they were in close contact with.

According to our local TV station, in our state that applied to about 30% of the workforce that were required to stay home as non-essential workers. In the higher populated states, staying at home, especially for non-essential workers it's a no brainer, IMO.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820547
03/28/20 03:05 PM
03/28/20 03:05 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Beatrice, NE
There's a difference between what's a good idea and what's legal, and sometimes when the government tells you that you can't do something, it makes it all the more important to do it, so they don't get the idea that you're just going to bend over and take it. For example it's not normally the best idea to march around the state capitol with an AR15, but if the government tells you that you can't own an AR15, maybe it's time to buy one and go for a march. In the same vein, it's not normally a good idea to go to church when a bunch of people are sick, but when the government tells you that you can't go to church, maybe it's time to defy them and meet with fellow believers.

Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820552
03/28/20 03:09 PM
03/28/20 03:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
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adam m Offline OP
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Thanks for the wsj article White. It's interesting for sure.

The mischief is going to heat up if these orders aren't lifted soon.

Can anyone enlighten me as to why 2a stores are considered non-essential?

Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820554
03/28/20 03:09 PM
03/28/20 03:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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I agree with your example of the Ar15. That can impact your life. But when you may infect and kill someone else because you are exercising your 'rights' to assemble.....your rights are null & void.IMO


Mean As Nails
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820558
03/28/20 03:12 PM
03/28/20 03:12 PM
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Posts: 4,822
Nevada
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nvwrangler Offline
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Nevada
White i get that others have chosen to lessen those rights i just stated my opinion. He gave his i gave mine and guess which one i value most. I try to respect the law and the government in place but there is a line that everyone has has to what they will comply with.

Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: loosegoose] #6820561
03/28/20 03:13 PM
03/28/20 03:13 PM
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Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
There's a difference between what's a good idea and what's legal, and sometimes when the government tells you that you can't do something, it makes it all the more important to do it, so they don't get the idea that you're just going to bend over and take it. For example it's not normally the best idea to march around the state capitol with an AR15, but if the government tells you that you can't own an AR15, maybe it's time to buy one and go for a march. In the same vein, it's not normally a good idea to go to church when a bunch of people are sick, but when the government tells you that you can't go to church, maybe it's time to defy them and meet with fellow believers.


I hear what you're saying, but don't you know that an AR-15 is the same weapon soldiers take to war, according to Nancy Pelosi?
laugh


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: white17] #6820563
03/28/20 03:14 PM
03/28/20 03:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by white17
I agree with your example of the Ar15. That can impact your life. But when you may infect and kill someone else because you are exercising your 'rights' to assemble.....your rights are null & void.IMO


Morally right and just plain common sense.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: white17] #6820566
03/28/20 03:17 PM
03/28/20 03:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Originally Posted by white17
I agree with your example of the Ar15. That can impact your life. But when you may infect and kill someone else because you are exercising your 'rights' to assemble.....your rights are null & void.IMO

But can't I infect and kill someone with the flu? Are my rights null and void during flu season? Yes, I realize that covid19 is certainly more infectious, and possibly deadlier than the flu, but the flu still kills 20,000+ people. Would it be worth shutting down the country and forcing people to stay home like this every flu season if 20,000+ lives could be saved?

To use a non-disease example,what about car crashes? If we restricted car travel to essential travel only, we would certainly save lives, right? Certainly nobody needs to go for a Sunday afternoon drive, if it would save lives?

Last edited by loosegoose; 03/28/20 03:18 PM.
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820571
03/28/20 03:19 PM
03/28/20 03:19 PM
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Posts: 5,263
Lakeland,Minnesota
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Bogmaster Offline
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Lakeland,Minnesota
I just deleted everything I was responding with. Some just live in another world.
Tom


If my feet aren't wet,I must not be trapping.
Tom Olson
MTA life member#100,also WTA life member
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: nvwrangler] #6820574
03/28/20 03:20 PM
03/28/20 03:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by nvwrangler
White i get that others have chosen to lessen those rights i just stated my opinion. He gave his i gave mine and guess which one i value most. I try to respect the law and the government in place but there is a line that everyone has has to what they will comply with.



I agree. The thing is that a person has to be willing to suffer the consequences for following his opinion if it is contrary to the law. If those consequences fall solely on the individual, that's fine. When they endanger the lives of others, that's not fine.


Mean As Nails
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820578
03/28/20 03:23 PM
03/28/20 03:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,441
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
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"All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous.All things are lawful, but not all things build up.Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person." 1 Cor. :23,24

Certainly , a thoughtful path that many have been doing as of late, in not spreading sickness.

Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: loosegoose] #6820580
03/28/20 03:23 PM
03/28/20 03:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by white17
I agree with your example of the Ar15. That can impact your life. But when you may infect and kill someone else because you are exercising your 'rights' to assemble.....your rights are null & void.IMO

But can't I infect and kill someone with the flu? Are my rights null and void during flu season? Yes, I realize that covid19 is certainly more infectious, and possibly deadlier than the flu, but the flu still kills 20,000+ people. Would it be worth shutting down the country and forcing people to stay home like this every flu season if 20,000+ lives could be saved?

To use a non-disease example,what about car crashes? If we restricted car travel to essential travel only, we would certainly save lives, right? Certainly nobody needs to go for a Sunday afternoon drive, if it would save lives?



If there was a legal sanction against travel or assembly due to an ordinary flu outbreak, then YES your rights would be null & void. But we have never seen that degree of need until this point.


Mean As Nails
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820590
03/28/20 03:28 PM
03/28/20 03:28 PM
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If I was high risk, meaning poor health and even the flu would possibly fix me, id stay in.

How does people going outside put them at risk, if those at risk do their part?

Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: white17] #6820597
03/28/20 03:31 PM
03/28/20 03:31 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Originally Posted by white17


If there was a legal sanction against travel or assembly due to an ordinary flu outbreak, then YES your rights would be null & void. But we have never seen that degree of need until this point.


I was more asking your opinion about whether or not you thought the restrictions are a good idea. If it's a good idea to shut the country down to save live from the coronavirus, is it a good idea to shut the country down to save lives from the flu also?


(also, rights aren't null and void just because the government says so.)

Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820598
03/28/20 03:34 PM
03/28/20 03:34 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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I don't think going outside is a problem. It's contact with others that is the issue.

My entire state is on lockdown. No intrastate travel unless it's essential/medical. If you come from another state you will be forced into isolation by the state's police power.

But the governor and the state's medical authority were both quick to point out that it does not preclude outdoor activities such as hiking, trapping, cutting wood etc.


Mean As Nails
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: adam m] #6820601
03/28/20 03:36 PM
03/28/20 03:36 PM
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muddyriverdogz Offline
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If the government was actually going by the Constitution a lot of things would be different right now.

So they are pretty much doing whatever they want and it will be no different with this.

Last edited by muddyriverdogz; 03/28/20 03:36 PM.

You only live once, so get over it!

Tactics may change but the goal remains the same.
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: loosegoose] #6820602
03/28/20 03:37 PM
03/28/20 03:37 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by white17


If there was a legal sanction against travel or assembly due to an ordinary flu outbreak, then YES your rights would be null & void. But we have never seen that degree of need until this point.


I was more asking your opinion about whether or not you thought the restrictions are a good idea. If it's a good idea to shut the country down to save live from the coronavirus, is it a good idea to shut the country down to save lives from the flu also?


(also, rights aren't null and void just because the government says so.)



I do think it's a good idea to shut the country down due to this virus.
Apparently people a lot smarter than I am believe this virus is far more dangerous than the seasonal flu. We at least have semi-effective inoculations that help to defeat the seasonal flu. So far, we don't have that with CV19


Mean As Nails
Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: white17] #6820606
03/28/20 03:41 PM
03/28/20 03:41 PM
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scotts Offline
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Originally Posted by white17
I agree with your example of the Ar15. That can impact your life. But when you may infect and kill someone else because you are exercising your 'rights' to assemble.....your rights are null & void.IMO

To my ears this sound like the argument for gun control. We have to take your guns because you may shoot and kill someone else because you are exercising your "rights" to bear arms. To be clear, this is not a dig at White. I have read this site daily for a number of years and have a great deal of respect for the man's opinion.

Re: Are shutdowns constitutional? [Re: scotts] #6820608
03/28/20 03:46 PM
03/28/20 03:46 PM
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white17 Offline

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Originally Posted by scotts
Originally Posted by white17
I agree with your example of the Ar15. That can impact your life. But when you may infect and kill someone else because you are exercising your 'rights' to assemble.....your rights are null & void.IMO

To my ears this sound like the argument for gun control. We have to take your guns because you may shoot and kill someone else because you are exercising your "rights" to bear arms. To be clear, this is not a dig at White. I have read this site daily for a number of years and have a great deal of respect for the man's opinion.


I can see how you think that.

Maybe a better way to express it is the old saying that "Your rights end at the tip of my nose".


Mean As Nails
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