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Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821502
03/29/20 09:48 AM
03/29/20 09:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
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The Beav  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
Talk to me about this FHA sale.

So FHA grades your fur places a value on that fur then places It In a lot with other fur with the same grade and value.
Lets say the lot # is 1111111 and that lot has 1000 select rats In It and the value Is $5.00. So any bid under $5.00 Isn't even considered. So we have 5 bidders for that lot and they all have bid $5.00 . The bidding closes at a certain time and we still have 5 bidders with the same price . So how do you pick the winner? Or do we go Into another week of PT?
Are these bids sealed or Is It open bidding where every bidder knows what the other bidder Is bidding?

The bottom line Is this If the trapper Is privileged to the valuation and privileged to the bidding there Is no way the trapper can effect the bidding since he's not bidding and he doesn't know the bidders and the bidders don't know the trapper. And If It's open bidding there Isn't any smoke and mirrors In play.
Come on people everyone In the sale knows what's going on but the poor trapper kind of like a mushroom being kept in the dark.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: The Beav] #6821531
03/29/20 10:08 AM
03/29/20 10:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 785
Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
What auction did you ever see where the auction accepts more than one bid of the same value. I bid the $5.00 minimum then the lot is mine unless you top my bid.

Every buyer sees the bids as they go up but not who is bidding - makes sense. So you bid $5.10 and I can see that (but not who you are) and the lot is yours unless someone else tops your bid.

And yes it would be nice if FHA could post how the process works and stop the speculation.

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821535
03/29/20 10:14 AM
03/29/20 10:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
Well they are telling us this Isn't a auction It's a sale. Like I said If the bidding Is closed and you have 5 bidders at the same price what happens?


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821546
03/29/20 10:30 AM
03/29/20 10:30 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 359
Iowa
J
Joe1 Offline
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 359
Iowa
other fur auctions and other auctions let every one know what every one is biding and every thing their doing in the auction don't know why its top secret at fha if people see whats going on it will draw people in to sell threw them I was going to consign some furs for the next auction but after seeing how their operating I don't think I want any thing to do with them

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821552
03/29/20 10:39 AM
03/29/20 10:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,972
South Dakota
R
Rat Masterson Offline
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South Dakota
Sounds like any online auction, bidders can see what was bid. If a bid on a lot is 5 bucks and someone else wants to bid they would have to bid 5.01. Online auctions are huge, maybe this is the new normal.

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: Rat Masterson] #6821563
03/29/20 10:46 AM
03/29/20 10:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Sounds like any online auction, bidders can see what was bid. If a bid on a lot is 5 bucks and someone else wants to bid they would have to bid 5.01. Online auctions are huge, maybe this is the new normal.


NAFA tried this once. Once!


Who is John Galt?
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821573
03/29/20 10:55 AM
03/29/20 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
I don't think this would happen. But this sale Is different does the trapper get the hammer price when his fur Is sold or will he get the valuation? With all this smoke and mirrors the trapper has no idea what his fur was valued at from the get go.
I'm not saying that FHA is pulling a fast one but this secrecy crap Is getting a bit old.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821579
03/29/20 11:01 AM
03/29/20 11:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
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se South Dakota
Beav- In the ebay world, if you're bdding on something, you typically put in what the max is that you will pay for an item. You then place a bid, either the initial or topping someone else. If you've topped someone else's bid, then their incremental "how much will you bid" kicks in, and thus the computers are bidding against each other until one (or more) top bid is maxed out. Then those bidders will get a note saying, "your top bid has been bested, do you want to revise what your top bid will be?". A bidder can then decided just to quit or revise their top bid. I've seen bids go 5x or more in the last few minutes. I've also seen an initial bid offered early in a week hold for the entire time. Typically, with ebay the next bid forward is a minimum of a quarter so Rat Materson's hypothetical win at $5.01 was probably someone bidding on an item that was $4.75 at the time the winner bid. The winner did the minimum quarter bid but added the penny as "insurance" to beat someone else just bidding the minimum. I've never had a "tie" with an ebay auction. It has either not sold or someone has "won".


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821583
03/29/20 11:05 AM
03/29/20 11:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
So "IF" there Is a tie what happens then? This isn't EBay.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: wissmiss] #6821584
03/29/20 11:05 AM
03/29/20 11:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,232
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline
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S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted by wissmiss
Originally Posted by walleye101


This internet sale I see the need to post it so buyers know what is the starting bid, and they will not accept any less.


BINGO!!

For this FHA remote sale, the valuation is posted in the catalog the registered buyers use to bid. The valuation is the starting point for bidding. The computer program will NOT accept bids below the FHA limit.

Auction company valuations are the auction company’s opinion of what the fur is worth. It may be spot on. It may be too high. It may be too low.

The only thing that will happen if shippers know the valuations, is that the number of phone calls to FHA will increase. And for the most part, they will be upset phone calls.


I guess the sellers will have to hope their fur doesn't sell in the lot that got valued too low. I don't know how anyone else feels but I would hate to think that my fur and hard work went to a buyer that got a great deal and sells it at a later sale.

Last edited by rpmartin; 03/29/20 11:08 AM.

Life member,
NRA, NTA, RMEF, Pheasants Forever.
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Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821592
03/29/20 11:08 AM
03/29/20 11:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,681
north Idaho
W
wissmiss Offline
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north Idaho
It is impossible for 5 bidders to have the same bid at any point in the FHA auction. The system won’t allow it. End of story.

Bidder A is the first to bid on a certain lot. He bids the valuation, which is $5.00. His bid is accepted and recorded in the on line buyer catalog. His account number (not his name) is displayed by his bid.

Buyer B logs in and wants to bid on that Lot. He sees some one has already bid $5.00. IF he wants to bid on that Lot, his bid is $5.10. He bids $5.10, his bid now replaces Buyer A’s bid and his account number shows by that Lot.

Buyer C logs in and is interested in that Lot but only at $4.50. Since the bid is already over that, he doesn’t bid and moves on to another lot.

Buyer A logs back in, sees that he is no longer the high bidder. He really wants that Lot, so he bids $5.20. His bid is accepted, the Lot is updated and his account number is now showing as the high bidder.

Would you like me to continue? I can keep this scenario going all day if needed.

FHA is running an online auction, very similar to eBay with a few minor differences. Perfectly legit.


www.usedtraps.com

Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821601
03/29/20 11:10 AM
03/29/20 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,214
NE
M
Marty B Online content
"arbitrary noob"
Marty B  Online Content
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M

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,214
NE
well every auction is different. there are no universal rules.



some of them the next bid can be a small advance, some are fixed, some a percentage of the current price.


usually spelled out in the fine print somewhere.

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821603
03/29/20 11:11 AM
03/29/20 11:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
Well That's what I wanted to know. But why doesn't this information come from FHA?


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821604
03/29/20 11:12 AM
03/29/20 11:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,214
NE
M
Marty B Online content
"arbitrary noob"
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Posts: 2,214
NE
nancy you posted while I was typing.

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821632
03/29/20 11:30 AM
03/29/20 11:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,681
north Idaho
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wissmiss Offline
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north Idaho
Two more comments about my above post.

If a buyer logs in, there are no bids on a certain lot and the valuation is listed as $5.00. He only wants to pay $4.00. He attempts to bid $4.00 but the program doesn’t accept his bid. He doesn’t want to pay $5.00, so he moves on to another lot.

FHA (and NAFA when they were in business) has established bid intervals. Those intervals apply in the auction room as well as in the on line auction. The intervals depend on species and value.

For example, on muskrat, squirrel, ermine and a few other species, if the bid is under $10.00, the interval is 10 cents. $5.00, $5.10, $5.20, $5.30, $5.40, etc.

If the bid is over $10.00, the interval is 25 cents. $10.00, $10.25, $10.50, $10.75, $11.00, etc.

It is a bit more complicated with other species - more price breaks and more intervals. Would you like examples??

FHA emailed bidding instructions and rules to all registered buyers. Maybe they didn’t post them for the general public because they didn’t want to be inundated with phone calls and questions from people who weren’t bidding. I’m sure they are getting enough emails and phone calls as it is. They have a limited staff and are trying to sell some fur.


www.usedtraps.com

Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821635
03/29/20 11:31 AM
03/29/20 11:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
K
kingrat Offline
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saskatchewan canada
Ok but what happens if its snowing outside when buyer a bids and buyer c has a lemon tree in full bloom than what? Smoke and mirrors I tell ya. Smoke and mirrors. Oh look a squirrel.

Last edited by kingrat; 03/29/20 11:31 AM.
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821647
03/29/20 11:39 AM
03/29/20 11:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,681
north Idaho
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wissmiss Offline
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Posts: 16,681
north Idaho
there are no words....... smile


www.usedtraps.com

Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821650
03/29/20 11:40 AM
03/29/20 11:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
If there wasn't any fur they wouldn't be In business so shouldn't the person producing the fur have some knowledge of what's happing .
Why do we have to get It from a 2nd party? But thanks for your Input.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821663
03/29/20 11:48 AM
03/29/20 11:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,088
Cheyenne Wyoming
C
Castormound Offline
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Cheyenne Wyoming
I think there's some really bored people on this site.


Antelope, the original fast food!!
Re: My FHA fur is now posted [Re: TRAPPER-ED] #6821668
03/29/20 11:50 AM
03/29/20 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,270
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
If you want to market your own fur-go ahead and market it.
If you want to use the marketing services of an auction house-let them do their job and market your fur.
Once your fur is fine graded and intersorted at the auction house you have no say in what is done with it beyond that point anyway.
You can use the results to make an informed decision on how you want to market your fur in the future.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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