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ultimate urban rifle #6822151
03/29/20 06:36 PM
03/29/20 06:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content OP
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
now I wasn't thinking so much urban however I came to nearly the same conclusion on what makes a very useful AR-15

but I stumbled on this video this morning
.




16 inch barrel , free float hand-guard , 1-4 , 1-6 , 1-8 or I like the 2-7 optic I shoot both eyes open with 2x just fine inside 125 yards I almost never move off 2x unless I am shooting groups
built by you so you know how to work on it

keeping the weight down and going M-lock it did win the platform war vs key-mod

I disagree with Clint on one thing I think a 50/250 yard zero is better he likes a 100 yard zero when you have a 100 yard zero everything is down hill from 100
with a 50/250 you are withing 4 inches from muzzle to 300 yards and if you are in that across the street 25-50 yard yards you are 1 inch low to dead on

with a 100 yard zero you are 1.5 inches low at 25 on at 100 and 125 then 10 inches low at 300 yards

this with a sure fire light under it all the way forward so that it is nearly under the muzzle.

[Linked Image]


Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/29/20 06:38 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6822163
03/29/20 06:47 PM
03/29/20 06:47 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,870
Mn
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nightlife Offline
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Mn
Seen the that video and like you I mostly agree except for me I like an acog scope on it or a good copy, I have a 4X and do wish it was lower power more then not

I lucked onto mine used at the local pawn shop for cheap



�Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.�
― Robert A. Heinlein
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6822508
03/29/20 10:56 PM
03/29/20 10:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,144
Ohio
BuckMink Offline
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Ohio
Is yours the 18"? Nice firearm.

Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6822513
03/29/20 11:02 PM
03/29/20 11:02 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
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Jonnytrapper Offline
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Maine
I've been looking at illuminated 1-4 scopes. They have some very nice reticles these days.

Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: nightlife] #6822515
03/29/20 11:04 PM
03/29/20 11:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by nightlife
Seen the that video and like you I mostly agree except for me I like an acog scope on it or a good copy, I have a 4X and do wish it was lower power more then not

I lucked onto mine used at the local pawn shop for cheap


My son kept looking at higher power scopes then he used one of my rifles to shoot his buck this year , about a hundred yards across a small hay field , watched it go down in the scope and said now I get why you like the 2x so much
an hour later I shot my buck on a run at 125 yards on 2X

he wanted so much for me to not be correct , but he came home from deer hunting and ordered a 2-7x32

I can see where the 1-6 or 1-8 would be nice but for the money 2-7 is really hard to beat


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6822526
03/29/20 11:18 PM
03/29/20 11:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
What's with the sissy pads on the elbows?

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: BuckMink] #6822529
03/29/20 11:20 PM
03/29/20 11:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content OP
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Originally Posted by BuckMink
Is yours the 18"? Nice firearm.

that is a 16 inch with a 13 inch handguard and ar-stoner muzzle break makes recoil almost non existent I know like an AR had much to begin with.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: James] #6822530
03/29/20 11:20 PM
03/29/20 11:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by James
What's with the sissy pads on the elbows?

Jim

he is a lawyer I just figured it was a lawyer thing.and let it go.

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/29/20 11:21 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: Jonnytrapper] #6822533
03/29/20 11:25 PM
03/29/20 11:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by Jonnytrapper
I've been looking at illuminated 1-4 scopes. They have some very nice reticles these days.


I think vortex would have a winner if they made their prism sight in a 2x they do make it in a 3x I just haven't tried that one yet the 1x could use just a touch of magnification


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6822775
03/30/20 09:33 AM
03/30/20 09:33 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
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Jonnytrapper Offline
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Joined: May 2016
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Maine
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
Originally Posted by Jonnytrapper
I've been looking at illuminated 1-4 scopes. They have some very nice reticles these days.


I think vortex would have a winner if they made their prism sight in a 2x they do make it in a 3x I just haven't tried that one yet the 1x could use just a touch of magnification


I really like the Primary arms ACSS scope. Supposedly the one for the 300 black out will work well on my AK.
[Linked Image]

Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6823055
03/30/20 01:10 PM
03/30/20 01:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
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Green County Wisconsin
the vortex bdc reticle isn't calibrated for any one cartridge this will get close but every gun and brand of ammo is a little different

you can work up some easy numbers how ever

a normal person is 17-18 inches across the shoulders never mind I am 20 without any coat on 18 is the middle and a couple inches are not that big of a deal

18 inches at 100 yards is 18moa
18 inches at 200yards is 9 moa
18 inches at 300 yards is 6 moa
18 inches at 400 yards is 4.5 moa
18 inches at 500 yards is 3.6moa

you can see the target at 350 is just right about 5moa if you work that out 3.5x5moa=17.5 inches you have to do a decimal point slide this is working it in reverse the decimal point slide works decently inside 500 yards because it is close to 99.5 after that you need to work the full equation.

size of the target in inches x 99.5 / moa measured = distance




[Linked Image]





Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/30/20 01:34 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6823109
03/30/20 01:49 PM
03/30/20 01:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
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a 6moa measured 18 inch target is 289.5 yards if you work the 18inches x 99.5 / 6moa equation since the bullet will not change elevation more than a fraction of an inch between 298.5 and 300 and your the shoulders could be 16 to 20 inches

16x 99.5 / 6 = 265 yards but your assuming it is 18 inches because you have no real way to measure it just a average shoulder width

20 x 99.5 /6moa = 331 yards

understanding if your bullet will still be withing your mathematical margin of error and your personal shooting ability decides if you pull the trigger as does wind and your ability to read it

this actually works for a lot of reticles that have no hashes in it to have a 6 moa from the point where the cross hairs cross to where it gets fat you need to check it by putting a 6 inch target out at 100 yards 12 at 200 and 18 at 300 but if that works out then you have a go-nogo is it inside 300 yards or not.
if it is an 18 inch target be it a mans shoulders , distance between the legs of a broadside coyote or back to brisket of a buck

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/30/20 01:51 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6823191
03/30/20 03:32 PM
03/30/20 03:32 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
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Jonnytrapper Offline
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Maine
With this setup it's more about speed and being close enough. I mostly shoot wolf or bear ammo out of my AK so really my max is about 300 yards and I just need a quick reference. On the ACSS reticle I like the large semi circle for quick and dirty up close but it has the nice chevron so you can still take some longer shots. All this being theoretical as I have not used one yet but have high hopes.

Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6823274
03/30/20 04:57 PM
03/30/20 04:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,520
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Kentucky
Meanwhile a coke snorting, street smart thug, with a sawed off shotgun steps out from behind a blind spot and ventilates the GQ urban commando.....So ends the reign of the "Ultimate Urban Rifle"


Member - FTA
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: ky_coyote_hunter] #6823334
03/30/20 05:43 PM
03/30/20 05:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,738
carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man Offline
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carolina, Alabama
Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
Meanwhile a coke snorting, street smart thug, with a sawed off shotgun steps out from behind a blind spot and ventilates the GQ urban commando.....So ends the reign of the "Ultimate Urban Rifle"

A well placed crackhead with a wrench could kill rambo. Whats your point?


"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: ky_coyote_hunter] #6823342
03/30/20 05:48 PM
03/30/20 05:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
Meanwhile a coke snorting, street smart thug, with a sawed off shotgun steps out from behind a blind spot and ventilates the GQ urban commando.....So ends the reign of the "Ultimate Urban Rifle"


I am certainly not trying to be any sort of commando.
in the video Clint smith makes the point that virtually any dummy if they can load the gun can hit at 25 , 50 maybe even out to 250-300 but part of the reason the rifle is built to do close and far is to own the territory where it isn't a point blank shot back.
I took this for it's similarity to my build of what I find the best non urban general use rifle


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6823357
03/30/20 05:59 PM
03/30/20 05:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,520
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Lol, The GQ commando is the guy in the video pic....I'm just yanking the civilian tactical crowds chain....Most of that crowd would be the very first ones to get in over their head.


Member - FTA
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6823657
03/30/20 09:10 PM
03/30/20 09:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,144
Ohio
BuckMink Offline
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Ohio
What is your tactical situation that you would imagine using it in?

Strictly lone ranger at the house or getting together with allies in a fight against the A2? Obvisiously both, but.. would you intentionally leave to fight if they actually would call in guns? Where do you see yourself deployed?

Myself, i think it would be house.. just makes me wonder though when you think of the guard being brought in. How many would give up their service while others would fulfill their "duty".

Where do you draw the line if it would ever come to it for the reason we've bought and trained with these rifles, if you understand what im trying to say. I agree with possum man though, even a guy with a pipe could knock out rambo though. Just interested in your thoughts.

Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6824273
03/31/20 10:55 AM
03/31/20 10:55 AM
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Green County Wisconsin
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I am not looking for a fight I wasn't really building a rifle for fighting other humans if needed it could certainly be used for such.

what makes a handy all purpose rifle with few modifications can make a good general purpose battle rifle also.

most of the living things I shoot are actually from inches or feet for dispatch to 150 yards I enjoy shooting farther I have a steel target at the farm set up at 420 that I like to ring.

I like to Appleseed, Project Appleseed teaches rifle marksmanship and Revolutionary war history I am a volunteer with the program. https://appleseedinfo.org/

in Appleseed there are 4 stages to the course of fire
stage 1 , 100 yard scaled target on the 25 meter range or a full size target at 100 yards on a KD(known distance) range 2 minutes 10 rounds standing no reload.

stage 2 , 200 yard scaled target on the 25 meter range or a full size target at 200 yard on the KD range , 55 seconds , transition from standing to seated/kneeling , load , reload mags loaded 2 & 8.

stage 3 , 300 yard scaled target on the 25m range or full size at 300 yards on the KD , 65 seconds , transition to prone , load , reload , mags loaded 2&8

Stage 4, 400 yard scaled target on the 25m range or full size at 400 yards onthe KD (points double) 5 minutes , start prone , 1 mag 10 rounds

you, your rifle and sling you may use a shooting mat but no rest or bipod .

the shooting portion of the program is built around making solid 4moa shooter , people get lucky and will score qualification without all the lessons mastered but over 4 stages with the time limits they don't often luck into a score.

after a person has qualified Rifleman the goal is that they maintain the skill so that a qualification score isn't their best day but their every day , 90 degrees out sweat in your eyes and hot brass landing on your back and shoot a 210 or better, laying in the snow in Febuary , in an all day drizzle in October , after just a few hours sleep and a long work week.

I am not interested in fighting at all. If we can get 51% of citizens trained to this level I don't think we would every fight again.

the real goal of Project Appleseed is to make better citizens , ones who understand liberty , how our forefathers earned it , what a gift it was to us their heirs.
that those better citizens will preserve liberty and take an active role in self governance. serve their duty as constituent, voter , juror , possibly as a representative and if needed a soldier .

I posted this to show the similarities in what the video and thunder ranch trainer calls the ultimate urban combat rifle and a solid general purpose shooter that does well in Appleseed kd. Although I really didn't intend to talk about appleseed when I started the thread.

I know some want to be a Rambo but you are correct a meth head who steps out of an alley could take out rambo.

As much as rifle looks like a individual sport , it is best done as a team sport , build your team build their skill.

don't be rambo, be a team . but more importantly be a team in self governance.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: ultimate urban rifle [Re: ky_coyote_hunter] #6824394
03/31/20 12:45 PM
03/31/20 12:45 PM
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Alaska/Washington
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The last shooting I was witness to, 10 handgun shots were fired by drugged out gangbangers. The intended victims were unarmed an hid behind cars. Nobody was hit.

Is the trained guy with an AR-15 really going to fall victim to "coked out" idiots? Rarely!

I personally wouldn't mess with ANYONE who went through Clint's "Urban Rifle Class".


Give an illegal alien a fish and he eats for a day. Deport him and you never have to feed him ever again!
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