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Re: 1 million dead? [Re: jbyrd63] #6824176
03/31/20 09:18 AM
03/31/20 09:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
I suppose it depends on how long they track.

USA has a population of 327 million. If 20% get covid (65 million) and if covid has a 2% mortality rate we end up with 1.3 million.

Re: 1 million dead? [Re: jbyrd63] #6824251
03/31/20 10:29 AM
03/31/20 10:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,227
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,227
Missouri
Do you guys understand the significance of the ventilators? As the numbers have proven out, approximately 5% of those who are infected wind up in an ICU and require a ventilator to breathe. You go on one of those when you are no longer able to breathe for yourself. You are on life support and without a ventilator breathing for you, you are dead. It requires not only the machine, but an attendant running it to constantly adjust it to your needs. And even with the ventilators, it seems about 1 in 5 die anyway. But without ventilators, best to assume that all 5 die.

So the only number that matters in any of this gets right down to you at the local level. If you are the one who is among the 5% who needs a ventilator, it had better be there when you need it or you die. If your local hospital has 1 ICU bed with ventilator, and trained staff to run it, your community can support about 20 infected persons. More than that, and somebody gets left out.......meaning somebody dies. To summarize.....ratio is 20 infected per 1 ventilator. With that, 1% death loss....without, death rate may soar to 5% or more.

So far, in the US anyway, no place has run out of ventilators where needed....so death rate is still running around 1%. In places like Italy and Spain, they don't......and death rate is about 10% of those infected. Good news is we recognized that early are are taking steps to remediate. Isolation to reduce demand.....cranking up production to increase supply.

So goals on many fronts are........

a. isolate to reduce the rate of infection to the point your local hospital's ICU beds can absorb the flow......aka, "flatten the curve". In general, we are about 2 weeks into this plan and it seems to be working to reduce the rate of infection. The curve does appear to be flattening.

b. make more ventilators........to increase ICU beds to increase capacity. If ratio is 20:1, so if follows that if 1 bed can support 20, 5 beds can support 100.

c. find drugs to slow or kill virus to lesson severity

d. improve and expand testing.......if infection rates are much higher than we think.......then the 1% death loss to infection rate is way off........say 0.1% instead of 1%, then the big death curve isn't coming.......was never as bad as was forecast. ICU bed ratio is still important but 200:1 being far better than 20:1. I would suspect when the virus is better understood and we reach the point where we can handle what comes, call will go out......."let it come......we can handle it".

e. most important test needed now is for antibodies, revealing folks that have been infected and have gotten better. This test needs to be simple, fast and accurate.....along the lines of a pregnancy test. If some of us have been sick without even knowing it, and are not testing positive, assumption is we can go back to work and normal life. That changes everything. If not, then wave hasn't hit yet and we stay the course.

Re: 1 million dead? [Re: jbyrd63] #6824261
03/31/20 10:43 AM
03/31/20 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
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B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512
james bay frontierOnt.
Excellent explanation Hayday.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: 1 million dead? [Re: Pike River] #6824264
03/31/20 10:47 AM
03/31/20 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Originally Posted by Pike River
I suppose it depends on how long they track.

USA has a population of 327 million. If 20% get covid (65 million) and if covid has a 2% mortality rate we end up with 1.3 million.


The mortality rate from covid is no where near 2%. As more testing is done the rate keeps dropping. Stanford doctors ran some models and are now predicting a mortality rate of .01%. I agree with Trump, one death is to many, but we need to keep this in perspective. If the US and Canada are locked down for an extended period of time we will find ourselves in an recession the likes of which we have never seen. Keep in mind how many Americans died in 2009 from H1N1....almost 15,000. At this point we are no where near those numbers and the malaria drugs are showing real promise. One doctor in New York has treated 699 covid patients with it and had zero deaths and not one had to be intubated.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: 1 million dead? [Re: Pike River] #6824270
03/31/20 10:52 AM
03/31/20 10:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Pike River
I suppose it depends on how long they track.

USA has a population of 327 million. If 20% get covid (65 million) and if covid has a 2% mortality rate we end up with 1.3 million.


Is that on top of the 2.7 that will die this year from other causes?

4 million deaths total for 2020.


-Goofy-
Re: 1 million dead? [Re: jbyrd63] #6824287
03/31/20 11:08 AM
03/31/20 11:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,833
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,833
KY.usa
Could you please give a direction as to where one could find a link to that article about the doctor.

Re: 1 million dead? [Re: jbyrd63] #6824291
03/31/20 11:10 AM
03/31/20 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
One thing to keep in mind is the fact hat we are all going to get it eventually. Thats how viruses work. Thats how our bodies build immunity to viruses. Unless of course a vaccine is available first. If Covid really is as contagious as it seems, and if the timeline for a vaccine is right, the chances of it working its way through the population before a vaccine is available is quite high. Luckily the vast majority of people have very mild symptoms.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: 1 million dead? [Re: HayDay] #6824296
03/31/20 11:16 AM
03/31/20 11:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
Originally Posted by HayDay
Do you guys understand the significance of the ventilators? As the numbers have proven out, approximately 5% of those who are infected wind up in an ICU and require a ventilator to breathe. You go on one of those when you are no longer able to breathe for yourself. You are on life support and without a ventilator breathing for you, you are dead. It requires not only the machine, but an attendant running it to constantly adjust it to your needs. And even with the ventilators, it seems about 1 in 5 die anyway. But without ventilators, best to assume that all 5 die.

So the only number that matters in any of this gets right down to you at the local level. If you are the one who is among the 5% who needs a ventilator, it had better be there when you need it or you die. If your local hospital has 1 ICU bed with ventilator, and trained staff to run it, your community can support about 20 infected persons. More than that, and somebody gets left out.......meaning somebody dies. To summarize.....ratio is 20 infected per 1 ventilator. With that, 1% death loss....without, death rate may soar to 5% or more.

So far, in the US anyway, no place has run out of ventilators where needed....so death rate is still running around 1%. In places like Italy and Spain, they don't......and death rate is about 10% of those infected. Good news is we recognized that early are are taking steps to remediate. Isolation to reduce demand.....cranking up production to increase supply.

So goals on many fronts are........

a. isolate to reduce the rate of infection to the point your local hospital's ICU beds can absorb the flow......aka, "flatten the curve". In general, we are about 2 weeks into this plan and it seems to be working to reduce the rate of infection. The curve does appear to be flattening.

b. make more ventilators........to increase ICU beds to increase capacity. If ratio is 20:1, so if follows that if 1 bed can support 20, 5 beds can support 100.

c. find drugs to slow or kill virus to lesson severity

d. improve and expand testing.......if infection rates are much higher than we think.......then the 1% death loss to infection rate is way off........say 0.1% instead of 1%, then the big death curve isn't coming.......was never as bad as was forecast. ICU bed ratio is still important but 200:1 being far better than 20:1. I would suspect when the virus is better understood and we reach the point where we can handle what comes, call will go out......."let it come......we can handle it".

e. most important test needed now is for antibodies, revealing folks that have been infected and have gotten better. This test needs to be simple, fast and accurate.....along the lines of a pregnancy test. If some of us have been sick without even knowing it, and are not testing positive, assumption is we can go back to work and normal life. That changes everything. If not, then wave hasn't hit yet and we stay the course.





Like I said earlier clean out the "vent" farms !!!
People that don't have a chance of recovery vs someone that does. THEY are making HARD decisions everyday let this one be an easy one !!!!!!

Re: 1 million dead? [Re: Pike River] #6824302
03/31/20 11:23 AM
03/31/20 11:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
Originally Posted by Pike River
I suppose it depends on how long they track.

USA has a population of 327 million. If 20% get covid (65 million) and if covid has a 2% mortality rate we end up with 1.3 million.


Yea and IF it has a mortality rate of 4% then 2.6 million will die. easy to plug in "if" numbers . That's one of the big problems !!!

Re: 1 million dead? [Re: yukon254] #6824307
03/31/20 11:26 AM
03/31/20 11:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
Originally Posted by yukon254
One thing to keep in mind is the fact hat we are all going to get it eventually. Thats how viruses work. Thats how our bodies build immunity to viruses. Unless of course a vaccine is available first. If Covid really is as contagious as it seems, and if the timeline for a vaccine is right, the chances of it working its way through the population before a vaccine is available is quite high. Luckily the vast majority of people have very mild symptoms.


May not get it but can build up an immunity. Little dirty kid playing in the mud hardly ever gets sick. Or the homeless for example.

Re: 1 million dead? [Re: jbyrd63] #6824328
03/31/20 11:42 AM
03/31/20 11:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512
james bay frontierOnt.
No not everyone is going to get it eventually.It will die down like bird flu and swine flu and spanish flu and the other viruses.Many have never nor will never get the bird flu or swine flu.19 will only be pandemic until herd immunity relegates it to a footnote each year like the others.

Last edited by Boco; 03/31/20 11:45 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: 1 million dead? [Re: rex123] #6824628
03/31/20 04:54 PM
03/31/20 04:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by rex123
Could you please give a direction as to where one could find a link to that article about the doctor.

I also would be interested in reading that.

Re: 1 million dead? [Re: jbyrd63] #6824630
03/31/20 04:56 PM
03/31/20 04:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by Pike River
I suppose it depends on how long they track.

USA has a population of 327 million. If 20% get covid (65 million) and if covid has a 2% mortality rate we end up with 1.3 million.


Yea and IF it has a mortality rate of 4% then 2.6 million will die. easy to plug in "if" numbers . That's one of the big problems !!!

Those "if" numbers should be based on established pass rates. This isn't rocket surgery....

I'm not terribly scared of Covid or buying into the media hysteria but it is a real thing. Practice some common sense and follow the guidelines from your state's DHS.

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