Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: chas3457]
#6826161
04/01/20 08:03 PM
04/01/20 08:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,147 Fontana KS
Andrew Eastwood
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,147
Fontana KS
|
Andrew, as it was explained to me, at the CCW class I took, you CAN NOT shoot anybody for just stealing your stuff. The only time you can shoot is if you are in eminent danger, then be prepares to be sued by the assailant or his family.
Charlie You are correct, but if 3 masked men don't make you fear for your life you is one heck of a lot badder than I. I would have been in eminent fear for my life and defended myself if 3 masked men came a bustin in. KS has castle law for when someone breaks into your home. Not sure how that would apply to work place, but with that fella sleeping there I would think it would be his temporary home. All states seem to have different rules, glad I live in KS for the most part. I think the fella worded his first statements wrong and it is hanging him. Should have shot to kill as he was in fear for his life, not I was trying to scare them and hit the fella. Wording will be his entire problem. IMO
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: stinkypete]
#6826179
04/01/20 08:14 PM
04/01/20 08:14 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,470 Iowa
trapdog1
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,470
Iowa
|
You shoot to kill. BeA[quote=stinkypete]You shoot to kill. Because your life was threatened. That store employee is screwed. Everyone knows when you take the permit to carry class what you are told. And because dead people can't testify against you.
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: trapdog1]
#6826184
04/01/20 08:20 PM
04/01/20 08:20 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,489 New Hampshire
Nessmuck
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,489
New Hampshire
|
You shoot to kill. BeA[quote=stinkypete]You shoot to kill. Because your life was threatened. That store employee is screwed. Everyone knows when you take the permit to carry class what you are told. And because dead people can't testify against you. Permit to carry class ? What in the Wide World of Sports is that ?....I go to the police station...give them 10.00 get my permit (good for 4 years)..Done .
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: virgil1972]
#6826223
04/01/20 08:47 PM
04/01/20 08:47 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 5,214 Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 5,214
Crivitz WI
|
Andrew, as it was explained to me, at the CCW class I took, you CAN NOT shoot anybody for just stealing your stuff. The only time you can shoot is if you are in eminent danger, then be prepares to be sued by the assailant or his family.
Charlie Are you going to wait to see what someone intends to do when they smash your window in the middle of the night. Probably not In your own home you have castle doctrine in some states and is totally different . An employee shouldn't be worried about the bosses stuff. He shoulda ran and hid and only fired if he was in danger. This guy did all the wrong things and is in big do do.
No Jab.
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: chas3457]
#6826228
04/01/20 08:51 PM
04/01/20 08:51 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,240 The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
"HOSS"
|
"HOSS"
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,240
The Hill Country of Texas
|
Andrew, as it was explained to me, at the CCW class I took, you CAN NOT shoot anybody for just stealing your stuff. The only time you can shoot is if you are in eminent danger, then be prepares to be sued by the assailant or his family. Charlie The first and last thing you say is admit you feared for your life. If you cant hold your tongu, the only other thing you'd want to say is that you want your lawyer. PERIOD!
Last edited by Leftlane; 04/01/20 08:52 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling
“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.” Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: 10bands]
#6826257
04/01/20 09:05 PM
04/01/20 09:05 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,470 Iowa
trapdog1
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,470
Iowa
|
Shooting to kill shows intent which is then prosecuted as murder. When defending yourself you shoot to stop the threat. Big difference in court. I wish I was better at explaining this and had references of the top of my head but people have gone to prison for saying they wanted to kill someone when what they were actually doing was trying to defend themselves. That is a good point.
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6826282
04/01/20 09:17 PM
04/01/20 09:17 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
|
"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
|
article says he told the cops he shot to scare them. that is likely why he was arrested.
fwiw here in ks you can take whatever steps are required to protect your property. different states have different laws.
personally i would not kill somebody for stealing. somebody who doesn't turn and run when you yell "what are you doing" "get out of here" just faces you, is a threat to your life
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6826469
04/01/20 10:59 PM
04/01/20 10:59 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,270 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,270
james bay frontierOnt.
|
Three Guys breaking into your home after dark aren't coming to kiss you goodnight. I would have peppered them with the 12 ga.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: Boco]
#6826493
04/01/20 11:13 PM
04/01/20 11:13 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,864 Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,864
Indiana
|
Three Guys breaking into your home after dark aren't coming to kiss you goodnight. I would have peppered them with the 12 ga. Only rock salt, bean bags, or rubber bullets right? I just hope I'm never in a situation like this. Protection of myself and family comes first. The bs legal crap 2nd. Sad that both the criminals and legal systems can run your life.
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6826523
04/01/20 11:50 PM
04/01/20 11:50 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
|
"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
|
I agree boco if they break into your home or anyplace your sleeping. This guy said he shot to scare them.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6826527
04/01/20 11:54 PM
04/01/20 11:54 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,692 Meridian, Idaho
10bands
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,692
Meridian, Idaho
|
Maybe I'm wrong in this thread but I've had this conversation in person before so I think there are some here who misunderstand the law. I get the impression that some think that the police will show up and say "Oh, you shot him in your home. Great! This is a Castle Doctrine state so excuse us while we haul the body away. Have a nice day!"
I'm not an expert on this but these laws aren't hard to read and cases involving them aren't hard to find.
Stand Your Ground and/or Castle Doctrine laws do not say you have the right to shoot someone in your home/business/whatever without consequences. What they say, and all states with these laws say this as the basis. "You do not have a duty to retreat." That's basically it. The prosecutor can't claim you were in the wrong because you could have run away instead of shooting.
If you shoot someone in your home/business/whatever you will be investigated, you will most likely go to jail and you will most likely be prosecuted. Castle Doctrine or not. It's literally the job of the states attorney's office to prosecute crimes. It's a crime to shoot someone so if they think they can prove you're guilty they're going to use the resources of the state to try. If everything goes well you will give your lawyer from $50,000-$150,000 he/she will defend you and then you get to go home. If things don't go well the sky's the limit for the prosecutor.
Having a dead witness simply means that the state will bring all the evidence it can find against you as it's witness.
I'm not saying don't defend yourself or don't use deadly force if you think you need to. I'm as prepared for all that as much as the next guy. Just realize that the consequences, even if everything goes your way, can be gigantic. Which is why I don't want to shoot someone for stealing my stuff.
|
|
|
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6826540
04/02/20 12:13 AM
04/02/20 12:13 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,382 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,382
Green County Wisconsin
|
the correct wording would be you SHOOT TO STOP THE THREAT.
I just didn't want to die , I just wanted them to stop. I shot them because they were armed and coming for me , they can only judge you (legally) on what you knew at the time you pulled the trigger.
time to throw any macho you had out the window and say the right things to keep your but out of prison for shooting a criminal you believed at the time was coming to hurt/kill you.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
|
|
|
|
|