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Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826025
04/01/20 06:26 PM
04/01/20 06:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,912
Idaho Falls, ID
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Grandpa Trapper Online content OP
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Idaho Falls, ID
One good reason to have insurance through an organization like USCCA

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826135
04/01/20 07:43 PM
04/01/20 07:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,912
Ohio
S
stinkypete Offline
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Ohio
You shoot to kill. Because your life was threatened. That store employee is screwed. Everyone knows when you take the permit to carry class what you are told.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: chas3457] #6826161
04/01/20 08:03 PM
04/01/20 08:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,147
Fontana KS
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Andrew Eastwood Online content
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Fontana KS
Originally Posted by chas3457
Andrew, as it was explained to me, at the CCW class I took, you CAN NOT shoot anybody for just stealing your stuff. The only time you can shoot is if you are in eminent danger, then be prepares to be sued by the assailant or his family.



Charlie

You are correct, but if 3 masked men don't make you fear for your life you is one heck of a lot badder than I. I would have been in eminent fear for my life and defended myself if 3 masked men came a bustin in. KS has castle law for when someone breaks into your home. Not sure how that would apply to work place, but with that fella sleeping there I would think it would be his temporary home. All states seem to have different rules, glad I live in KS for the most part. I think the fella worded his first statements wrong and it is hanging him. Should have shot to kill as he was in fear for his life, not I was trying to scare them and hit the fella. Wording will be his entire problem. IMO

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826172
04/01/20 08:09 PM
04/01/20 08:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 469
SW MISSOURI
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Rockfarmer Offline
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SW MISSOURI
Lock and load boys and girls. Gonna get worse before it gets better. Because of the Corona, judges are releasing people left and right on signature. Trust me, I have some one in law enforcement. Every gun in my house is loaded and ready. Be safe my friends.


www.nationwidecartparts.com
3rd Infantry Division
1st Infantry Division
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Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: stinkypete] #6826179
04/01/20 08:14 PM
04/01/20 08:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,470
Iowa
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trapdog1 Online content
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Iowa
Originally Posted by stinkypete
You shoot to kill. BeA[quote=stinkypete]You shoot to kill. Because your life was threatened. That store employee is screwed. Everyone knows when you take the permit to carry class what you are told.


And because dead people can't testify against you.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: trapdog1] #6826184
04/01/20 08:20 PM
04/01/20 08:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,489
New Hampshire
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Nessmuck Online content
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New Hampshire
Originally Posted by trapdog1
Originally Posted by stinkypete
You shoot to kill. BeA[quote=stinkypete]You shoot to kill. Because your life was threatened. That store employee is screwed. Everyone knows when you take the permit to carry class what you are told.


And because dead people can't testify against you.


Permit to carry class ? What in the Wide World of Sports is that ?....I go to the police station...give them 10.00 get my permit (good for 4 years)..Done .


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826191
04/01/20 08:28 PM
04/01/20 08:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,692
Meridian, Idaho
10bands Offline
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10bands  Offline
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Meridian, Idaho
Shooting to kill shows intent which is then prosecuted as murder. When defending yourself you shoot to stop the threat. Big difference in court. I wish I was better at explaining this and had references of the top of my head but people have gone to prison for saying they wanted to kill someone when what they were actually doing was trying to defend themselves.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: virgil1972] #6826223
04/01/20 08:47 PM
04/01/20 08:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 5,214
Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty Offline
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Crivitz WI
Originally Posted by virgil1972
Originally Posted by chas3457
Andrew, as it was explained to me, at the CCW class I took, you CAN NOT shoot anybody for just stealing your stuff. The only time you can shoot is if you are in eminent danger, then be prepares to be sued by the assailant or his family.



Charlie

Are you going to wait to see what someone intends to do when they smash your window in the middle of the night. Probably not


In your own home you have castle doctrine in some states and is totally different . An employee shouldn't be worried about the bosses stuff. He shoulda ran and hid and only fired if he was in danger. This guy did all the wrong things and is in big do do.


No Jab.
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: chas3457] #6826228
04/01/20 08:51 PM
04/01/20 08:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,240
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Online content
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Leftlane  Online Content
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Posts: 20,240
The Hill Country of Texas
Originally Posted by chas3457
Andrew, as it was explained to me, at the CCW class I took, you CAN NOT shoot anybody for just stealing your stuff. The only time you can shoot is if you are in eminent danger, then be prepares to be sued by the assailant or his family.
Charlie



The first and last thing you say is admit you feared for your life. If you cant hold your tongu, the only other thing you'd want to say is that you want your lawyer.
PERIOD!

Last edited by Leftlane; 04/01/20 08:52 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling

“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826242
04/01/20 08:58 PM
04/01/20 08:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,912
Idaho Falls, ID
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Grandpa Trapper Online content OP
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An update on this story tonight on Tucker Carlson, Fox News. The employee that did the shooting is reported to have diabetes and passed out at his hearing. The prosecutor is a liberal democrat solidly against cash bail and she is very much against for deporting illegal aliens. But yet the judge and the prosecutor are still denying the employee bail and letting him rot in jail even with being a high risk person for getting the Coronavirus. The more I read about this story and how the justice system is treating this individual as compared to criminals, I am more than convinced it all has to to with making him an example and their hatred for law abiding gun owners.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: 10bands] #6826257
04/01/20 09:05 PM
04/01/20 09:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,470
Iowa
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Iowa
Originally Posted by 10bands
Shooting to kill shows intent which is then prosecuted as murder. When defending yourself you shoot to stop the threat. Big difference in court. I wish I was better at explaining this and had references of the top of my head but people have gone to prison for saying they wanted to kill someone when what they were actually doing was trying to defend themselves.


That is a good point.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826282
04/01/20 09:17 PM
04/01/20 09:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Online content
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williamsburg ks
article says he told the cops he shot to scare them. that is likely why he was arrested.

fwiw here in ks you can take whatever steps are required to protect your property. different states have different laws.

personally i would not kill somebody for stealing. somebody who doesn't turn and run when you yell
"what are you doing" "get out of here" just faces you, is a threat to your life


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826393
04/01/20 10:05 PM
04/01/20 10:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
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meadowview, Virginia
Three perps wearing masks inside the building with you is adequate reason to fear for your life and use deadly force, but that's not the way it went down per the shooter himself. I think he bought himself a heap of trouble. Having a firearm when he was prohibited from having one shows a callous disregard for the law and that's not going to help his case any or make any of the pro-gun groups inclined to support his legal battle.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826394
04/01/20 10:06 PM
04/01/20 10:06 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,726
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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SW Georgia
If you shoot to kill, it’s your word against theirs and they ain’t talking.
Sounds like the guy didn’t have the brain cells to own a firearm.

“I was sleeping and heard what I thought was a shotgun blast when all of a sudden I see three guys rushing me. I drew and fired before they could shoot again. Seeing how I only hit one means I need to spend more time at the range. Hopefully the police will be able to catch the other two before they kill someone.”

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826469
04/01/20 10:59 PM
04/01/20 10:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,270
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Online content
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james bay frontierOnt.
Three Guys breaking into your home after dark aren't coming to kiss you goodnight.
I would have peppered them with the 12 ga.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Boco] #6826493
04/01/20 11:13 PM
04/01/20 11:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,864
Indiana
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Indiana
Originally Posted by Boco
Three Guys breaking into your home after dark aren't coming to kiss you goodnight.
I would have peppered them with the 12 ga.


Only rock salt, bean bags, or rubber bullets right?

I just hope I'm never in a situation like this. Protection of myself and family comes first. The bs legal crap 2nd. Sad that both the criminals and legal systems can run your life.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826523
04/01/20 11:50 PM
04/01/20 11:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Online content
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I agree boco if they break into your home or anyplace your sleeping. This guy said he shot to scare them.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826527
04/01/20 11:54 PM
04/01/20 11:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,692
Meridian, Idaho
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Meridian, Idaho
Maybe I'm wrong in this thread but I've had this conversation in person before so I think there are some here who misunderstand the law. I get the impression that some think that the police will show up and say "Oh, you shot him in your home. Great! This is a Castle Doctrine state so excuse us while we haul the body away. Have a nice day!"

I'm not an expert on this but these laws aren't hard to read and cases involving them aren't hard to find.

Stand Your Ground and/or Castle Doctrine laws do not say you have the right to shoot someone in your home/business/whatever without consequences. What they say, and all states with these laws say this as the basis. "You do not have a duty to retreat." That's basically it. The prosecutor can't claim you were in the wrong because you could have run away instead of shooting.

If you shoot someone in your home/business/whatever you will be investigated, you will most likely go to jail and you will most likely be prosecuted. Castle Doctrine or not. It's literally the job of the states attorney's office to prosecute crimes. It's a crime to shoot someone so if they think they can prove you're guilty they're going to use the resources of the state to try. If everything goes well you will give your lawyer from $50,000-$150,000 he/she will defend you and then you get to go home. If things don't go well the sky's the limit for the prosecutor.

Having a dead witness simply means that the state will bring all the evidence it can find against you as it's witness.

I'm not saying don't defend yourself or don't use deadly force if you think you need to. I'm as prepared for all that as much as the next guy. Just realize that the consequences, even if everything goes your way, can be gigantic. Which is why I don't want to shoot someone for stealing my stuff.

Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826540
04/02/20 12:13 AM
04/02/20 12:13 AM
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Green County Wisconsin
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the correct wording would be you SHOOT TO STOP THE THREAT.

I just didn't want to die , I just wanted them to stop.
I shot them because they were armed and coming for me , they can only judge you (legally) on what you knew at the time you pulled the trigger.

time to throw any macho you had out the window and say the right things to keep your but out of prison for shooting a criminal you believed at the time was coming to hurt/kill you.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Virginia county jails citizen for shooting robber [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6826568
04/02/20 01:46 AM
04/02/20 01:46 AM
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Posts: 7,630
Virginia
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Virginia
Jail is better than dead any day. He'll get out eventually.

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