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New cartridge has no brass #6831950
04/06/20 07:41 AM
04/06/20 07:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
https://www.yahoo.com/news/50-years-army-marine-corps-095548994.html

Wonder how expensive this stuff is? Will it be reloadable? It may return to its original dimension after firing? Anyway I thought it was interesting. Maybe in a few years ALL ammo will be copper bullets and polymer cases?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6831967
04/06/20 08:10 AM
04/06/20 08:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 142
Northwest Kansas
O
obaro Offline
trapper
obaro  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 142
Northwest Kansas
From what I understand it is non-reloadable, at least the stuff I researched.Biggest advantages as promoted is weight and cost savings. Guns and Ammo had a couple articles on it a while back.

Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6831977
04/06/20 08:31 AM
04/06/20 08:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
This polymer case ammo may become a popular military item due to reduction in weight and because military brass typically isn't recovered for reloading. I don't think it will become as popular in the civilian world because one of the big advantages of reloading is to tailor loads to your particular guns. However, I do see it becoming popular for 5.56 and maybe 9mm that often are not reloaded.

Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832010
04/06/20 08:57 AM
04/06/20 08:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
nm
A
adam m Offline
trapper
adam m  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
nm
A couple other perks to them is they are crazy lightweight and they shoot cooler thus extending barrel life.

Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832030
04/06/20 09:14 AM
04/06/20 09:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
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Getting There Offline
trapper
Getting There  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
Better stock up on brass!


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832031
04/06/20 09:14 AM
04/06/20 09:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,586
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Years ago, Herters, Inc made all plastic shot shells. The only metal in them were the primers. I still have some. They were reloadable.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: Trapper7] #6832039
04/06/20 09:21 AM
04/06/20 09:21 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,870
Mn
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nightlife Offline
trapper
nightlife  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,870
Mn
Originally Posted by Trapper7
Years ago, Herters, Inc made all plastic shot shells. The only metal in them were the primers. I still have some. They were reloadable.


True and not that long ago there was a company making plastic 38 special that was reloadable with a simple hand tool



�Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.�
― Robert A. Heinlein
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832048
04/06/20 09:29 AM
04/06/20 09:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
Law Dog Online content
trapper
Law Dog  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
Remington made a few rifles years back that used no brass they did not go over big then.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832051
04/06/20 09:35 AM
04/06/20 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,658
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,658
Minnesota
Interesting....but is it range free?
Hahaha! Sorry


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832074
04/06/20 09:52 AM
04/06/20 09:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
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Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
I've still got some plastic shot gun shells. I would have to look but I think Wanda Is what they were called.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832076
04/06/20 09:53 AM
04/06/20 09:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
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lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
They are talking about saving weight that GI's have to carry, and right there at the end of the article, was one of the brass talking about how they could carry more ammunition. They're not worried about the GI carring too much weight, they're more interested in having more firepower because of the lighter weight. Sounds like the normal way they would look at it!


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

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Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832080
04/06/20 09:56 AM
04/06/20 09:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Before long they will be back to powder and ball because its lighter ...... probably come up with some super lightweight carbon fiber powder horn next.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832127
04/06/20 10:45 AM
04/06/20 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,927
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
trapper
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SEPA
I wonder how much weight will be saved switching from brass to plastic? Seems to me the majority of weight in any cartridge is in the projectile.


Eh...wot?

Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832133
04/06/20 10:58 AM
04/06/20 10:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,951
rogers city mi.
J
jeff karsten Offline
trapper
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Posts: 4,951
rogers city mi.
daisy had their combustible 22 lr cartridge long ago just cant wrap their minds around the 7.62x39 as a better battle cartridge


olden tyred
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832144
04/06/20 11:13 AM
04/06/20 11:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
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cmcf Offline
trapper
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Wyoming
I think a company called Voer or Vocer (sp) made some 5.56 that had no case at all the propellant was molded around the projectile and primer. The only thing that was ejected on fireing was the spent primers. Daisy made a few rifles for the ammo. Total market fail. Maybe two separate and different caseless designs I don’t remember.


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: Lugnut] #6832145
04/06/20 11:14 AM
04/06/20 11:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Originally Posted by Lugnut
I wonder how much weight will be saved switching from brass to plastic? Seems to me the majority of weight in any cartridge is in the projectile.


Not so with the 5.56X45 or .223Rem. The bullets most in use in the NATO are 55 and 62 grains. The cases vary a bit depending on manufacturer but are around 96 grains in weight.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: Lugnut] #6832159
04/06/20 11:22 AM
04/06/20 11:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,374
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
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Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Lugnut
I wonder how much weight will be saved switching from brass to plastic? Seems to me the majority of weight in any cartridge is in the projectile.



look at 5.56 the case is 98grn the bullet 55gr powder around 26grn 98+55+26= 179grn

if they can cut the 40grn off every round you could then carry 22% more ammo with the same weight

it would be better than the savings between 30-06 @ 199 grn and 308 @ 177grn because of the smaller case you also went form 47gr of powder to about 42gr and gave up very little in velocity difference

with a 27gr difference between the brass in a 30-06 and a 308 for every 10 rounds of 30-06 you could carry 11 of 308 , because the rifle action was shorter it made up for the weight gained in carrying reusable magazines

308 to 223 was a bigger savings 177+42+147=366grn for a loaded round vs 179grn for every round of 308 you could carry 2.1 rounds of 223


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: Scuba1] #6832165
04/06/20 11:25 AM
04/06/20 11:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
nm
A
adam m Offline
trapper
adam m  Offline
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nm
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Originally Posted by Lugnut
I wonder how much weight will be saved switching from brass to plastic? Seems to me the majority of weight in any cartridge is in the projectile.


Not so with the 5.56X45 or .223Rem. The bullets most in use in the NATO are 55 and 62 grains. The cases vary a bit depending on manufacturer but are around 96 grains in weight.

I've held them and checked them out in .308, yet to shoot them. Just by holding them both in my hands I would estimate at least 50-70% weight reduction. The weight reduction is instantly noticeable.

Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832175
04/06/20 11:39 AM
04/06/20 11:39 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,738
Iowa
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coydog2 Offline
trapper
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Iowa
There was some 12 ga all plastic hulls that was made by Active if I remember right, I still got some, some where, They took the 209 primers and easy to reload.


Life member of DAV,NTA,NRA,ITA.Also member of FTA,CBA
Re: New cartridge has no brass [Re: danny clifton] #6832177
04/06/20 11:41 AM
04/06/20 11:41 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,738
Iowa
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coydog2 Offline
trapper
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Iowa
I know the navy on my first ship I was on ,for there 5" guns, the cases was all brass then later on they went to aluminum. This was back between 1979 to 1981 I was on that one ship.


Life member of DAV,NTA,NRA,ITA.Also member of FTA,CBA
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