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Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: waggler] #6832639
04/06/20 08:27 PM
04/06/20 08:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,761
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline OP
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loosegoose  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2018
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Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by waggler
All this talk about "rights" got me to thinking. I don't ever remember Jesus Christ demanding his rights. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in civil rights. Civics (the science of government) is separate from faith practically speaking.
Jesus came to serve, part of serving people is not making them sick. I think that pastor is off base in at least some of his views, I can't really see Jesus doing what that pastor did.

Jesus touched lepers and dead people and other sick people which was radical in his day both because it made him ceremonially unclean according to Jewish law, and also because it was just gross to touch sick and dead people since it could spread diseases and such, and there was no real medicine back then. Jesus, being not only fully God, but also fully man, was just as susceptible to disease as anybody else, and still made the effort to minister to those people.

Last edited by loosegoose; 04/06/20 08:32 PM.
Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6832734
04/06/20 09:38 PM
04/06/20 09:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,193
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
^^^^^^
Interesting point (Jesus being susceptible to disease), most of the time we dwell on Jesus's Divinity and don't really think too much about the other aspect of Jesus; his humanity.

Last edited by waggler; 04/06/20 09:40 PM.

"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6832906
04/06/20 11:25 PM
04/06/20 11:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,629
alaska
3
3 Fingers Offline
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3 Fingers  Offline
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alaska
Originally Posted by loosegoose

we're willing to put our health and maybe even other people's health, at risk, for what we believe...

hard to fathom

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6832971
04/07/20 01:32 AM
04/07/20 01:32 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,626
Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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Champaign County, Ohio.
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by waggler
All this talk about "rights" got me to thinking. I don't ever remember Jesus Christ demanding his rights. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in civil rights. Civics (the science of government) is separate from faith practically speaking.
Jesus came to serve, part of serving people is not making them sick. I think that pastor is off base in at least some of his views, I can't really see Jesus doing what that pastor did.

Jesus touched lepers and dead people and other sick people which was radical in his day both because it made him ceremonially unclean according to Jewish law, and also because it was just gross to touch sick and dead people since it could spread diseases and such, and there was no real medicine back then. Jesus, being not only fully God, but also fully man, was just as susceptible to disease as anybody else, and still made the effort to minister to those people.


If Jesus could heal people by touch or words, I don't see how he was fully susceptible to disease.

Keith

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6832993
04/07/20 04:18 AM
04/07/20 04:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,850
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Online content
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2006
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williamsburg ks
Wonder why no Muslims were arrested in FLA.? They are still having "school" at the Muslim center in Overland Park KS and I do not think the Muslims in FLA ever shut down their meetings, even after the christian preacher was charged with a crime.

I suspect it is because law enforcement and politicians were aware that Muslims would get violent if told they no longer had a recognized right to gather peacefully.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: KeithC] #6833129
04/07/20 08:38 AM
04/07/20 08:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,761
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline OP
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loosegoose  Offline OP
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Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by KeithC


If Jesus could heal people by touch or words, I don't see how he was fully susceptible to disease.

Keith

Jesus suffered various human sufferings being fully man along with fully God. He got hungry, he got tired, he got thirsty, he felt pain, he died. The Bible doesn't record him getting sick, but it's reasonable to believe that he was at least capable of getting sick.

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833161
04/07/20 09:13 AM
04/07/20 09:13 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,515
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Southern Illinois
Jesus knew his limits as a man and chose not to jump off any mountains. He had power to resist the devil and set him in his place behind Him. Jesus came with a purpose to save mankind. Had the Kung Flu killed him he would not have been able to do His work on the cross. He did not have His life taken from Him but gave it freely. He chose to give it in the open light on a hill and not have it taken from Him in a rat infested dark corner some where. So in one since he did have resistance to any disease the devil threw at Him, thus resist the devil and he will flee.

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833228
04/07/20 10:09 AM
04/07/20 10:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,240
West Michigan
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Getting There Offline
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They should have lock the doors and kept them inside for 15 days or so. JMO


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: Foxpaw] #6833231
04/07/20 10:15 AM
04/07/20 10:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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"Chippendale Trapper"

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Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Foxpaw
Jesus knew his limits as a man and chose not to jump off any mountains. He had power to resist the devil and set him in his place behind Him. Jesus came with a purpose to save mankind. Had the Kung Flu killed him he would not have been able to do His work on the cross. He did not have His life taken from Him but gave it freely. He chose to give it in the open light on a hill and not have it taken from Him in a rat infested dark corner some where. So in one since he did have resistance to any disease the devil threw at Him, thus resist the devil and he will flee.


I thought the Bible instructs us to flee from evil?


-Goofy-
Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6833264
04/07/20 11:00 AM
04/07/20 11:00 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,515
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by Foxpaw
Jesus knew his limits as a man and chose not to jump off any mountains. He had power to resist the devil and set him in his place behind Him. Jesus came with a purpose to save mankind. Had the Kung Flu killed him he would not have been able to do His work on the cross. He did not have His life taken from Him but gave it freely. He chose to give it in the open light on a hill and not have it taken from Him in a rat infested dark corner some where. So in one since he did have resistance to any disease the devil threw at Him, thus resist the devil and he will flee.


I thought the Bible instructs us to flee from evil?


Exactly, and thats why I am not going into any big crowds, I'm not Jesus nor do I in my self have the power to make a puppet out of the devil. Some grand standing preacher maybe makes puppets out of his congregation. Later if not sooner God will judge the congregation. Surely the sheep know their Masters voice, but I have raised sheep and they will follow a goat right past the executioner.

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833310
04/07/20 11:42 AM
04/07/20 11:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 725
western Oklahoma
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Davisfur Offline
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western Oklahoma
If Jesus had got the flu and died off it wouldn't have made for nearly as interesting of a story. Not a lot of people would have lined up behind someone that claimed to be the son of God and then got knocked off by the sniffles. On the same note it makes not much sense to read that Jesus was the only "human" to lead a sinless life and then somehow believe he was able to do that without divine intervention. If he had done it wholly as a "human" without any help from daddy then it would be something that could be duplicated today.

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833439
04/07/20 01:43 PM
04/07/20 01:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 68
Minnesota
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scotts Offline
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Minnesota
The state of Florida and the county that enforced this ban have determined that this action was most likely unconstitutional.

The church had prepared a federal lawsuit against the county that enforced the ban. Shortly before the suit was filed the county voted to overturn the church ban. They went even further when they decided that any future guidance the county may issue will be recommendations and not enforceable. Perhaps the timing is a coincidence.

The lawsuit has been put on hold. The church is still demanding retraction of certain statements, written guarantees, and charges being dropped. I suspect they will get all of these things because the county and the state are in cover your butt mode.

The state of Florida has also reversed course on this. Religious services is now essential. To take it a step further, the state of Florida amended the original order to prohibit local government from passing more restrictive restrictions. In short, the state is trying to limit the possibility of local restrictions rubbing off at the state level.

Put all of this together and it becomes pretty evident, the lawmakers who wrote this ban think it is most likely unconstitutional. When faced with a meaningful, legal challenge; they folded immediately. The stakes are high and legal ruling on this case would have far reaching implications. The most plausible explanation for the county and states actions is that the government's attorneys are telling them this not likely to be in the state's favor. The government does not run from fights it thinks it can win.

Here is a link for more details. It appears to be from the church's legal counsel.
https://www.lc.org/newsroom/details...ses-and-recognizes-churches-as-essential

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833508
04/07/20 03:37 PM
04/07/20 03:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
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hippie Offline
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pa
Too bad it didn't go to court.

I said earlier that was the reason they opened gun stores back up. Wasn't applied correctly by picking and choosing what they close.

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833578
04/07/20 05:15 PM
04/07/20 05:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,432
Akron, Ohio
bass10 Offline
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Akron, Ohio
If they decided to fight it and win they win nothing and costs the state a minimum $100k, if they lost probably have to pay additional for the morons attorney fees! Not worth the fight either way, imo.


"The more people I meet the more I love my dog!"
Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: hippie] #6833831
04/07/20 09:53 PM
04/07/20 09:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Indiana
Originally Posted by hippie
Too bad it didn't go to court.

I said earlier that was the reason they opened gun stores back up. Wasn't applied correctly by picking and choosing what they close.



Yup!

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833840
04/07/20 09:57 PM
04/07/20 09:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Indiana
Federal govt from what I understand still has only set forth "guidelines". Nothing official to date I do believe. All these executive orders are coming from govenors. From what I can see there is no athority given to govenors to do what they are doing.

Lol

Very tricky stuff!

Re: Pastor arrested for holding church [Re: loosegoose] #6833842
04/07/20 09:59 PM
04/07/20 09:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Indiana
Saw where DNR was requesting pictures of people fishing etc... Didn't understand that

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