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Unproven Canning recepie #6858105
04/29/20 07:37 AM
04/29/20 07:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 84
Wisconsin
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DadN3Boyz Offline OP
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Wisconsin
I make salsa, stew and chowder, but my recepies are not proven for canning. I put in quart bags and freeze. I pressure can meat and vegies but those were from the canning book. So if you can one of your own recepies, will you always know if it didn't work? If a jar lid is popped, or upon opening it has a bad smell or mold, you know it didn't go well. Could a batch be bad that doesn't show these signs?

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858142
04/29/20 08:59 AM
04/29/20 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,513
Nebraska
Trapset Offline
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Nebraska
There should be proven soup recipes in your canning book. I just use that. Have never found one for chowder so I donít can it. You canít see or smell botulism but bringing caned food to a boil for 5 min b4 eating should kill it. Myself, I donít mess with any unproven recipes. I look at it the other way, the unproven recipes have actually been proven to fail.


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Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858149
04/29/20 09:06 AM
04/29/20 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,032
Ontario, Canada
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slydogx Offline
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Ontario, Canada
You can't can dairy (at least it's not recommended). Noodles are also a no no


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Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858150
04/29/20 09:08 AM
04/29/20 09:08 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,855
Northern Michigan
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J.Morse Offline
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Northern Michigan
When canning soup, stew, etc. you must use the times/pressure recommend for the ingredient that needs the longest processing......for instance,I use the meat time/pressure on chili. As for undetectable pathogens in a can you open....absolutely is possible. Google Botulism.


Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858191
04/29/20 09:53 AM
04/29/20 09:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5,955
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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pressure canning or hot water bath? is the question.


pressure canning if you find a similar recipe and use the possessing time for that , like canned beef and you use it for canned venison both processed the same time and pressure things are fairly safe.

if hot water bath , it requires an % of acid also

unfortunately it gets harder and harder to get good science based info , because the extension offices are now being told they can't even teach home canning. I think that stinks of lawyers and industrial food lobby.


the ball blue book of canning is a good one that will have good possessing times for most things you might can or similar enough that you can make it work with some common sense.

I took the canning class with my Daughter when the extention offered it , they spend a lot of time insuring you would have to do more than one step wrong to have bad food.


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Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858209
04/29/20 10:17 AM
04/29/20 10:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,969
Asheville, NC
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charles Offline
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Wife used to can salsa a lot. Just like canning tomato.

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858211
04/29/20 10:19 AM
04/29/20 10:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,715
N.W. Iowa
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Tactical.20 Offline
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N.W. Iowa
I have pressure cooker incase i can meat or veggies,
I really like my steam canner for tomatoes, much better than a hot bath method

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858212
04/29/20 10:22 AM
04/29/20 10:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 46
manistee, county, Michigan
misterb Offline
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manistee, county, Michigan
What J. Morse said!

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: Trapset] #6858242
04/29/20 11:05 AM
04/29/20 11:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,715
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by Trapset
There should be proven soup recipes in your canning book. I just u[b][/b]se that. Have never found one for chowder so I donít can it. You canít see or smell botulism but bringing caned food to a boil for 5 min b4 eating should kill it. Myself, I donít mess with any unproven recipes. I look at it the other way, the unproven recipes have actually been proven to fail.

NO!!! Boiling does not kill botulism. Botulism is a toxin not an organism.


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Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858264
04/29/20 11:36 AM
04/29/20 11:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,080
Wyoming
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cmcf Offline
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Wyoming
Iíve opened a bunch of cans does that count?? Full disclosure I have never canned anything. However I have read several times in different posts that thoroughly cooking should kill botulism. It really doesnít matter if it kills the botulism or not. Botulism is an anaerobic bacterium so is tetanus. Which simply means they grow in absence of oxygen. They are some of the oldest living things on the planet and evolved before there was very much oxygen in the atmosphere. Oxygen kills them. It is their WASTE that is toxic to us. So even if the bacterium is dead their excretions are still present and extremely toxic. Thisís the reason it is called FOOD POISONING.
Hope this helps someone.

As an afterthought this thing about oxygen killing them, is the reason you are more likely to get tetanus from stepping on a rusty nail than a cut. The iron in the nail bonds the oxygen molecules to form rust which provides a low oxygen environment for the bacterium to live in. The puncture wound seals over and keeps oxygen from killing the germs. Also Iíve read that there CAN BE botulism spores in raw honey. This is the reason the experts say not to give raw honey to infants.


Go as far as you can see, and you will see farther
Zig Ziglar
Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858301
04/29/20 12:13 PM
04/29/20 12:13 PM
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Posts: 853
eastern washington
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BillyTraps Offline
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eastern washington

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858315
04/29/20 12:28 PM
04/29/20 12:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 84
Wisconsin
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DadN3Boyz Offline OP
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Wisconsin
Has anyone canned their own recipe that didn't work?

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858317
04/29/20 12:29 PM
04/29/20 12:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,080
Wyoming
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cmcf Offline
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Wyoming
Can a batch be bad that doesnít show these signs?
Yes.


Go as far as you can see, and you will see farther
Zig Ziglar
Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858404
04/29/20 02:35 PM
04/29/20 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,849
S.E. Ohio
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M.Magis Offline
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Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858569
04/29/20 06:16 PM
04/29/20 06:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 192
Missouri
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HayDay Offline
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Ball's Blue Book is a good place to start for anyone.....as is the instruction manual that comes with the pressure canners......like the All American.

As far as botulism, it turns out the bacteria that causes botulism poisoning is common and on a lot of foods we eat all the time....and normally causes no harm. Where things so south is when several things happen at once.......temps in the range of 40F to 140F, high moisture, low acid, low oxygen (anaerobic) environments. Under those conditions, the botulism goes active and starts producing the deadly toxins. That is almost exactly what happens inside a canning jar.

Water bath products are high acid.......and you are supposed to add acid and salt even to those.....lemon juice or citric acid to tomatoes, for example. Product also heats up to temp of boiling water, killing off bacteria. In doing so, contents (and air) expand and air is forced out of the jar. Then when you cool it down, lid seals the jar as contents contract to create a vacuum.

Pressure canning does the same thing, except heats up the contents to a higher temp.......about 240F or so......which really cooks stuff, and more so when you leave it in the canner for nearly an hour or so, as is the case with meats.

And the best way to test all this to be safe is to remove the rings when the jars cool down. As long as the lids stay sealed and tight, whatever is in there should be OK. Loose lids not so much. Same as any canned food where the can has swollen. You never eat that.

BTW, botulism is really critical when smoking meats like sausage, hams, bacon, etc.. Long times, low temps. You never do that unless you have added cure.

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6858629
04/29/20 07:22 PM
04/29/20 07:22 PM
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Wyoming
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cmcf Offline
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Wyoming
Good post Hay Day


Go as far as you can see, and you will see farther
Zig Ziglar
Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: cmcf] #6858677
04/29/20 07:55 PM
04/29/20 07:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,977
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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East-Central Wisconsin
I don't can meat but follow Hay Day's thoughts on my veggies. I do about 120-150 quarts of tomatoes in the form of stewed, juice and salsa every year. I do the 2 tablespoons of lemon juice per qt and 1 per pint to add acid to the tomatoes. Many salsa recipes call for corn starch to thicken the salsa. You don't want to do that as that increases the likelihood of having bacterial type issues. I leave mine juicy and strain off the excess juice to use as a base for my spicier tomato juice. I pressure can all of my veggies at the appropriate pressure for the designated time. When you remove the jars you can hear the lids pop when they seal. Tap them all and anyone that sounds flat I take that lid off, re-clean the jar lid rim put on a new cover and cook again. Every once in a while say one jar per year I might find a bad jar and you can see it quickly and I just toss those out.

Bryce

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6859047
04/30/20 08:53 AM
04/30/20 08:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 5,438
Michigan
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Trapper Dahlgren Offline
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Michigan
I have can chowder for years ,an never had a problem , I to take off rings ,an don't eat anything , that the lid don't go pop when I open it !!!

Re: Unproven Canning recepie [Re: DadN3Boyz] #6859050
04/30/20 08:56 AM
04/30/20 08:56 AM
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Posts: 5,438
Michigan
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Trapper Dahlgren Offline
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Michigan
according to internet you can't can anything ,with butter ,what do you cook with out butter in it ?

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