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Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884758
05/29/20 08:13 AM
05/29/20 08:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Most business owners don’t have a criminal mind or they could be taking advantage of this situation as well.

“The incident occurs. They know what’s coming. The following day they are closed, (busy wiring the place). The riots break out. The windows break and 60 seconds later, an explosion leveling the place. The insurance pays to rebuild and weight is added to the scale of the looting mind.”


-Goofy-
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884768
05/29/20 08:27 AM
05/29/20 08:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 606
Southaest Kansas
C
Coyote Clayton Offline
trapper
Coyote Clayton  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 606
Southaest Kansas
The use of lethal force when someone is stealing your property will get you arrested, convicted, and you will go to prison. The defense of fearing for your life alone is not enough. To say or imply different is leading people astray to reality. There has to be other elements and actions that occur in the event.



Compulsive Coyote Washer
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884777
05/29/20 08:33 AM
05/29/20 08:33 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,726
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,726
SW Georgia
All I’ll say is do what’s best for you and your family.
Basically what I’m reading here is a home/business owner has no rights and thieves do. What one has worked for their entire life belongs to thieves. My daddy always said better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I can say with 100% certainty that a thief that enters my home through a locked door/window, will not leave or at least leave in the same health he entered in.

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: Wanna Be] #6884783
05/29/20 08:42 AM
05/29/20 08:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,963
Central Ontario, Canada
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Crit-R-Dun Offline
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Crit-R-Dun  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,963
Central Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
All I’ll say is do what’s best for you and your family.
Basically what I’m reading here is a home/business owner has no rights and thieves do. What one has worked for their entire life belongs to thieves. My daddy always said better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I can say with 100% certainty that a thief that enters my home through a locked door/window, will not leave or at least leave in the same health he entered in.


Not too many would argue your point with your home, but as someone else put it, looting a store is still shoplifting and that makes it pretty hard to argue the right to shoot and kill someone.

Last edited by Crit-R-Dun; 05/29/20 08:42 AM.
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884805
05/29/20 09:01 AM
05/29/20 09:01 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,895
michigan,USA
S
seniortrap Offline
trapper
seniortrap  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,895
michigan,USA
If someone robbed a bank or store in 1890, wouldn't the people call the sheriff? And after awhile he shows up. The robber is gone along with the money, radio, tv or whatever?

Its nice to see people who are willing to give away their goods (money) with no punishment for the robber. mad


Vietnam--1967 46th. Const./Combat Engineers

"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction."
"After the first shot, all plans go out the window!"
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: Crit-R-Dun] #6884808
05/29/20 09:06 AM
05/29/20 09:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Crit-R-Dun
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
All I’ll say is do what’s best for you and your family.
Basically what I’m reading here is a home/business owner has no rights and thieves do. What one has worked for their entire life belongs to thieves. My daddy always said better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I can say with 100% certainty that a thief that enters my home through a locked door/window, will not leave or at least leave in the same health he entered in.


Not too many would argue your point with your home, but as someone else put it, looting a store is still shoplifting and that makes it pretty hard to argue the right to shoot and kill someone.


The truth is, it is difficult to prove a chain of events different than what you describe when you are the only one left to describe them. lol


-Goofy-
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: Crit-R-Dun] #6884813
05/29/20 09:11 AM
05/29/20 09:11 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,726
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,726
SW Georgia
Originally Posted by Crit-R-Dun
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
All I’ll say is do what’s best for you and your family.
Basically what I’m reading here is a home/business owner has no rights and thieves do. What one has worked for their entire life belongs to thieves. My daddy always said better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I can say with 100% certainty that a thief that enters my home through a locked door/window, will not leave or at least leave in the same health he entered in.


Not too many would argue your point with your home, but as someone else put it, looting a store is still shoplifting and that makes it pretty hard to argue the right to shoot and kill someone.

If I’m in my locked business, and someone busts down the locked door or breaks through a locked window, I have no clue of their intentions. Are they there to rob me or kill me? I’ll let a jury make that decision. They broke through the door/window with an object that could very well be used on me or my employees.
I’m not referring to shoplifters where the business is open and they steal something. This is a locked business/home. By some of the definitions on here, banks don’t need armed security...it’s just shoplifting. They should be able to shoplift all the money they want and get away with it. Y’all can give away all you want, I’m on the stingy side. Worked to hard for what’s mine.

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884816
05/29/20 09:17 AM
05/29/20 09:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
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Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
The way some of the trappers on here defend criminals, is it any wonder our country is in the predicament we're in?


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: Wanna Be] #6884818
05/29/20 09:18 AM
05/29/20 09:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Wanna Be

If I’m in my locked business, and someone busts down the locked door or breaks through a locked window, I have no clue of their intentions. Are they there to rob me or kill me? I’ll let a jury make that decision. They broke through the door/window with an object that could very well be used on me or my employees.
I’m not referring to shoplifters where the business is open and they steal something. This is a locked business/home. By some of the definitions on here, banks don’t need armed security...it’s just shoplifting. They should be able to shoplift all the money they want and get away with it. Y’all can give away all you want, I’m on the stingy side. Worked to hard for what’s mine.


You feel that way because of your racism.


-Goofy-
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884828
05/29/20 09:38 AM
05/29/20 09:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Just seen a protester jumped on the front of a vehicle and rolled off onto the street the driver then tried to run him over. LOL Might not be popular to block the roads if that keeps up.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: Gary Benson] #6884832
05/29/20 09:41 AM
05/29/20 09:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Originally Posted by Gary Benson
The way some of the trappers on here defend criminals, is it any wonder our country is in the predicament we're in?



The cop was wrong for sure but again the common tread was all the guy had to do was get into the vehicle but he fell on the ground instead.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: ] #6884861
05/29/20 10:21 AM
05/29/20 10:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
K
K52 Offline
trapper
K52  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
Originally Posted by dirtydogtrapping
Originally Posted by Gary Benson
The way some of the trappers on here defend criminals, is it any wonder our country is in the predicament we're in?


In no way am I defending any criminals, I'm trying to get a point across, we all know if you call the cops they will come. But when they get there you better have solid video evidence of what occurred. I was told once there's more crime on crime between criminals them self's. So the police don't believe a word anybody says about what happened. But they still have the obligation to protect the innocent.


The police don't have any obligation to protect the innocent, that was settled by the supreme court. If you think they have an obligation to protect the innocent then why is that coward deputy in the Florida school shooting drawing his pension and not in prison? He knew full well what was happening and he's a free man today.

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: ] #6884869
05/29/20 10:33 AM
05/29/20 10:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 254
Lakeland, Louisiana
C
CajunMan Offline
trapper
CajunMan  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 254
Lakeland, Louisiana
Originally Posted by dirtydogtrapping
No you don't have the right to shoot a shoplifting suspect. Especially an unarmed one. Do you see store security guards shooting people down in the parking lots in your town? Here the stores are all video monitored and if a guard does witness a theft they call the police to come get the video evidence first, then the law enforcement will use facial recognition and go arrest the person .

They might aught to arm themselves If they plan on stealing my stuff!

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884881
05/29/20 10:49 AM
05/29/20 10:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,207
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
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H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,207
Missouri
Not sure what the solution will be, but the status quo cannot continue. We are hurtling towards the scenario depicted in Death Wish 3, where the street gangs ruled and citizens cowered in fear of their lives. Only thing missing is the Giggler.

The problem now being when this stuff erupts....police are overwhelmed and cannot protect property if they wanted to. Property owners could step aside and let it happen, except their insurance probably does not cover the loss due to that being civil unrest.....so placed in a no win situation. Very likely wiped out due to no fault of their own, except for being stupid enough to try to run a business in the first place.

We used to have a saying in the country where I grew up. In a crisis situation, where seconds count.....the sheriff is only 20 minutes away. As a result, we practiced frontier justice. True story......small town main street where I went to school had a tavern next to the local bank. Robbers broke into the tavern and were in the process of busting a hole in the common wall between the two in hopes of gaining access to the bank vault. Problem being tavern owner slept in the back in a loft over the snooker table. When he woke up and realized what was going on, he opened fire. Dropped two of them where they were standing and got the other guy in the back as he was going out the door. Sheriff's response? He declared it a case of good shooting.......tavern owner being half asleep in dim lights and dark....fast moving targets.....not many people could have pulled that off. It may take that level of threat to bodily harm to get the looting and rioting stopped.

So one alternative is to have the Governor, mayor or whoever is in charge delcare a "state of emergency" which I tend to think of as "martial law" lite. What that means is normal rules are suspended. In this case, normal rules being a thug's right to enter and steal is suspended, and the property owner's risk of being held liable is also suspended. They enter, they can be shot. If Target wants to step aside and allow these midnight shopping sprees, they can. If Red Kneckerson's liquor emporium wants to arm himself and shoot looters, he can.

If not that, then to make it more interesting, make it so the mayor or Governor has some skin in the game. If they fail to act to prevent civil unrest, etc, then make it so that the jurisdiction they represent, as well as they themselves personally, could be held liable for the loss.

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884889
05/29/20 11:00 AM
05/29/20 11:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
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Sandhills Nebraska
Due to community leadership, the thugs in the city outnumber the law enforcement badly. On top of that, LEO has been throttled back to the point they can't even do their job without being scrutinized. Cops are going to start walking away from their jobs and let the thugs have their way. (Like they did yesterday)


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884910
05/29/20 11:38 AM
05/29/20 11:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 237
Missouri
riverbank Offline
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riverbank  Offline
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Posts: 237
Missouri
Be a real shame if a vigilante group of armed and masked citizens started cutting down looters. There is one he!! of a big difference between looting and protesting. Those that are looting don't give a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) about any kind of justice for a dead man. All they saw was the opportunity to get something for free and act like an uncaged animal. I firmly believe there will come a day when some common sense, hard working citizens have had enough and start taking the law into their hands because they are tired of being ran over by a bunch of worthless criminals. Hopefully it happens sooner rather than later.

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884970
05/29/20 01:24 PM
05/29/20 01:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 673
kansas
L
larrywaugh Offline OP
trapper
larrywaugh  Offline OP
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kansas
Breaking and entering a locked business is totally different from shoplifting. The law I read in kansas states that the castle doctrine extends to your car and place of business deadly force is justified if the victim was committing a felony. I checked and breaking and entering is a felony.


Won't take no prisoners,won't spare no lives.
Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6884975
05/29/20 01:31 PM
05/29/20 01:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,897
American In the Pyrenees; Fran...
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swift4me Offline
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American In the Pyrenees; Fran...
I remember in West Yellowstone in the late 60's there was a big group of bikers that came through the area and caused lots of problems. Some of you know Eagle's store, but my dad grew up with the owner's kids, they stood on the roof of the store with the rifles and the handguns to protect what was theirs.

In 2000 when everybody thought the world would stop because of the computers not getting the date right I slept in my store with my Benelli just in case.

Can't be too sure.

Pete

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: ] #6885003
05/29/20 02:27 PM
05/29/20 02:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
K
K52 Offline
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K52  Offline
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K

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
Originally Posted by dirtydogtrapping
[/quote] If you think they have an obligation to protect the innocent then why is that coward deputy in the Florida school shooting drawing his pension and not in prison? He knew full well what was happening and he's a free man today.


That's a good question. But one I can't answer.


The Supreme Court answered it, police have no legal duty to protect you or your property or even answer a call. When push comes to shove, you better be able and ready to protect your family and property. I’m glad I live in a state that recognizes that right.

Re: Use of deadly force protecting your business [Re: larrywaugh] #6885011
05/29/20 02:46 PM
05/29/20 02:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
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adam m Offline
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Posts: 25,692
nm
I was just talking about this on fb.
This reminds me, during the LA Riots Korean's stood their ground and were armed with ak's sks and other guns and defended their lives their businesses and livelihood. If I remember correctly it was that riot and the action the koreans took which caused the ban on "bad guns"

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