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Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891401
06/05/20 09:25 PM
06/05/20 09:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
James must be thinking about going to church this weekend..........


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891402
06/05/20 09:26 PM
06/05/20 09:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,337
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,337
The Hill Country of Texas

James I have tried to view things from other points of view. When I accomplish the goal I am capable of great empathy (ok greater than usual).

Understanding some view points is simply beyond me. In the (movie) words of Doc Holiday "My hypocrisy only goes so far"



“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891403
06/05/20 09:26 PM
06/05/20 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,220
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,220
Alaska and Washington State


And I believe white privilege exists, because I've been a beneficiary of it. Mostly though I've been the beneficiary of a stable, two-parent upbringing.

Jim
[/quote]

Yes, and that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is culture and character, race has nothing to do with it.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: A view from the left [Re: Mac] #6891406
06/05/20 09:27 PM
06/05/20 09:27 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Mac
Mark June wrote: "I stand on; This battle is not about color of someone's skin as much as it about the battle between good versus evil."


Well, my friend you pretty much hit the nail on the head. But let me warn you, as you undoubtedly realize, you will not sway many with your argument, despite the statement being the truth. Folks do not want a simple truth. A simple truth like your statement does not bolster everyones theories and ideologies about what is really wrong with the world, so therefore it cuts everyone off at the starting line. The good Lord knows that people like to argue.

Peace to you.

Mac


Howdy Mac. Hope you're doing well in God's country sir!

You may be spot on.
But maybe the battle lines would be drawn differently if Americans of all creeds, tongues, and tribes starting talking about good versus evil instead of this endless hyphenated name nonsense. I'm a Scot-Frence-English-German-Irish-Norwegian-trapper-Christian-papa-hubby-dogowner-conservative-nationalistic-hunting-gold panning American.
Names we scrap over today will be "poof" "gone" "not remembered" 150 years from now anyway.
But if all you believe in is the here and now, grab it while you can!

Stay well friend!
Mark

Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891407
06/05/20 09:29 PM
06/05/20 09:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
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Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
Good point. Most beneficiaries of a stable two parent upbringing aren't rioters and looters.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891414
06/05/20 09:32 PM
06/05/20 09:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,200
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,200
Armpit, ak
I come from a broken family with an alcoholic father. I should be the liberal, not James. confused


Who is John Galt?
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891421
06/05/20 09:36 PM
06/05/20 09:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
He'll be reachin out to ya soon. If you could just make a small donation............

Last edited by Gary Benson; 06/05/20 09:37 PM.

Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891558
06/05/20 11:32 PM
06/05/20 11:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
Here's an email I just got from the board of Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America.

I want to be a Black writer and get in on all the free stuff.

My son is half-Asian...what about him?

I think I'll send a protest letter to the board.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891560
06/05/20 11:33 PM
06/05/20 11:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
/4/2020

Statement from SFWA on Black Lives Matter and Protests
“We give lip service to acceptance, as though acceptance were enough.”

― Octavia E. Butler, Parable of the Sower

People ask how worlds like Octavia Butler’s Parable of the Sower can exist. It happens through the slow creep of power aided by the complacency of those shielded by their position in society.

It is not enough to have an anti-harassment policy and call that good. We must work for equity and diversity to make sure that underrepresented voices are heard, to increase inclusion in the genre of science fiction and fantasy, in the larger ecosystem of publishing, in our writing community, and in life.

We support Black Lives Matter and the protesters who are seeking justice for centuries of white supremacy and police brutality.

We acknowledge that SFWA has historically ignored and, in too many instances, reinforced the injustices, systemic barriers, and unaddressed racism, particularly toward Black people, that have contributed to this moment. We have allowed those who spoke for change in SFWA to be drowned out by those who clung to the status quo. We have a responsibility to admit our failings and to continually commit to dismantling these oppressive and harmful systems, both within this organization and ourselves.

“People who say change is impossible are usually pretty happy with things just as they are.”

― N.K. Jemisin, The City We Became

These are the actions that SFWA is taking as first steps to clean our own house and work towards making our community safer for Black writers.

For the month of June, 100% of registrations for the Nebula Convention content will go directly to the Carl Brandon Society and the Black Speculative Fiction Society.

We are creating a matching program for the Nebula convention so that each registration purchased this month creates a seat for a Black writer.

For the next year, we are waiving fees for SFWA membership for Black writers.

We are waiving registration fees for next year's Nebula conference attendance for Black writers.

We are creating a travel fund to help defer the costs of Black writers attending the Nebula conference

We are committing to reaching out to Black-led science fiction and fantasy organizations about applying for the additional grant money that we have available.

For those who wish to learn more about what you can do to help, here is a list of resources:

An Antiracist Reading List from Ibram X. Kendi

We Need Diverse Books Resources for Race, Equity, Anti-Racism, and Inclusion

Truth, Racial Healing & Transformation (from ALA’s Public Programming Office’s Great Stories Club)

List of Coretta Scott King Book Award Winners (books for children and young adults)

People of Color in Publishing

Many of us are feeling helpless in the face of racist terror, but there are ways for all of us to do our part with the time, money, and resources we have available. Our choices matter now more than ever. What we know from writing science fiction and fantasy is that the present we find ourselves in was avoidable but our nation chose not to avoid it. We can still choose a just and equal future, if we work together as a community to dismantle white supremacy.

If you wish to donate to organizations or causes, Black Lives Matter has curated a list of organizations that could use your support. In addition to those, these groups are part of the science fiction and fantasy community.

Black Science Fiction Society

FIYAH Magazine of Black Speculative Fiction

Carl Brandon Society

Black Tribbles

People of Color in Publishing

I Need Diverse Games

We Need Diverse Books

Let us know about additional resources that we can add to these lists.

Unanimously signed,

The Board of Directors of Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891562
06/05/20 11:36 PM
06/05/20 11:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,644
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
trapper
Nessmuck  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,644
New Hampshire
Don’t Latino lives matter, Asian lives Matter, Jewish, French, Spanish, ...on and on. I have nevah seen any of these people burn down city’s....like the Blacks. Why is that ?


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891564
06/05/20 11:39 PM
06/05/20 11:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
Maybe because they weren't enslaved here.

But I see your point. It's valid. Nothing justifies the violence and looting.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891574
06/05/20 11:58 PM
06/05/20 11:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,200
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,200
Armpit, ak
"An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work without pay for the owner of the indenture for a period of time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a specific payment or other benefit (such as transportation to a new place), or to meet a legal obligation, such as debt bondage. On completion of the contract, indentured servants were given their freedom, and occasionally plots of land. Indentured servitude was often brutal, with a high percentage[vague] of servants dying prior to the expiration of their indentures. In many countries, systems of indentured labor have now been outlawed, and are banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a form of slavery."

"Between one-half and two-thirds of white immigrants to the American colonies between the 1630s and American Revolution came under indentures. "

Last edited by Dirt; 06/06/20 12:01 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891576
06/06/20 12:00 AM
06/06/20 12:00 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



The Chinese were the lowest of the low in the 19th century, especially hated by those low in the economic sphere.

I scrolled the internet and found this intriguing summation from the current Illinois teaching manual about the Chinese culture in America. Seems Darwinism may not have just been used to explain evolutionary theory versus a divine creation, but also that some Americans used the old Englishman's teachings as fodder for white supremacy back in the 1800's. Or at least, that's what IL is teaching high school kiddos today. I quote their teacher's manual;

"To understand the treatment of the Chinese in the 19th century, one has to consider how white Americans viewed racial and cultural difference at the time. During the 19th century, European Americans looked more towards the social and natural sciences, rather than interpretations of the Christian bible, to find explanation and justification for their notions of racial superiority and inferiority. With scientific-sounding terminology and evidence, the theory of Social Darwinism applied Darwin’s biological theory to social phenomena. By the end of the century, the theory of Social Darwinism was widely accepted, especially among the middle and upper classes who attended lectures on the subject at libraries and museums, read books purporting the theory in book clubs, and saw posters and exhibits like those reproduced in this lesson. The theory held strong appeal for European Americans as it offered a scientific explanation for the successes and failures of various groups of people as well as individuals. Another old notion, that of noblesse oblige, also came into play as European Americans sought to bring other “less fortunate” races some of the advantages of European civilization without “polluting” their own gene pool. The expression of these ideas is evident in the materials in this lesson. Students can see how these ideas developed through the 19th century and how they were applied specifically to the Chinese."

Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891582
06/06/20 12:25 AM
06/06/20 12:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
I find the letter from USM to be unsurprising.

It is also unsurprising that author omitted the instance of Micah Johnson, a black man who killed 5 white police and wounded 9 more in 2016 because he "wanted to kill white people". Maybe that doesn't qualify as racism. shocked

But overall I think the letter is nothing more than cowardly virtue signalling among Democrats. Trying to insulate themselves in hopes that the mob they have created will kill them last.
Disgusting, but unsurprising.


But even worse is the Washington state supreme court. In their manifesto they clearly allude to what they see as their moral obligation to rule from personal bias rather than uphold the rule of law, in order to create a society that they perceive to be aligned with their social justice views..........as opposed to the law.

Reprehensible but , sadly , not surprising


Mean As Nails
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891584
06/06/20 12:37 AM
06/06/20 12:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
What exactly did the Washington SC say that showed an inclination to rule from personal bias?

I thought it was a good statement; but that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with all that it said.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891595
06/06/20 01:19 AM
06/06/20 01:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
"We can develop a greater awareness of our own conscious and unconscious biases in order to make just decisions in individual cases,and we can administer justice and support court rules in a way that brings greater racial justice to our system as a whole."


Seems pretty clear to me that the court intends to make decisions based on their perceptions of their " conscious and unconscious biases" as well a supporting court rules that bring "greater racial justice".............


First of all, why/how would one have an "awareness" of an unconscious bias " ?

Second: their statement implies that up until now they have not made "just decisions in individual cases"....by following the actual law and they now intend to disregard that law and rule from ideology.

Is the idea to live by the rule of law or by the rule of racial justice , regardless of the law ?


Mean As Nails
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891597
06/06/20 01:58 AM
06/06/20 01:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,553
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
T
turkn8rtrapper Offline
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trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,553
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
Ok so the Washington Supreme Court finally put it in writing. Justice is not blind it definitely takes sides and some times the outcome is pre determined. I would think JUSTICE applies to each human being equally. So are these justices saying it doesn't ? Maybe I lost my comprehension of the English language but I expect I interpreted it just fine. All lives matter and no one should be treated differently unless I guess you go before the Washington State supreme court. As for the University I am almost speechless. Almost. Can anyone say "Educated beyond your intelligence" I know I can. Now they have forced me to research the Dr. That wrote the book they are so proud of subscribing to and find out what it is really all about. What happened to Mr. Floyd is a tragedy that unfortunately happens daily. But I don't think it was racially motivated. I believe it was a bad actor that pretty much got caught doing what he did to pretty much anyone. I have a deep respect for law enforcement and what they do. It is a shame that one nimrod tarnishes all the good LEO's out there, the 99.9%. Hate to say it but that .1% is out there and the only way to stop them is for the 99.9 to call them out.


"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891607
06/06/20 03:54 AM
06/06/20 03:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
While I believe justice should be blind, I don't understand either your interpretation or conclusion, Ken.

To address your first point, EVERYONE should strive for an awareness of his or her unconscious bias. To not do so leaves you at the mercy of ignorant racism. It may sweep you up, and you won't even know it. You'll wind up hurting someone and looking like a fool yourself.

Second, the court admits it has not always been racially blind, citing one of its cases that once held a black family could be excluded from burying their child at a certain cemetery. There's no implication involved. No where do they say they'll disregard the law and rule from ideology.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: A view from the left [Re: James] #6891625
06/06/20 05:56 AM
06/06/20 05:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,785
Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds Offline
trapper
Feedinggrounds  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,785
Northern lower Michigan
Originally Posted by James
Originally Posted by waggler
Sounds like re-education camp to me.
These idiots who come up with this nonsense aren't a pimple on an elephant's hind-end relative to the breadth of human history.
History will not treat them kindly.


I'm always interested in your thoughts, Waggler. Colleges are education camps by nature. I think I'm mature enough to test claims made by authority figures.

I believe racism exists. The natural, instinctive tendency for most humans is to be racist, distrustful of those who are different. It takes special effort on the individual's part to identify and neutralize the racism inside the self.

Those who don't make that effort will likely fall into the mistakes of racist thinking.

I believe blacks have been and are still disproportionately the target of racism by police and other authorities.

And I believe white privilege exists, because I've been a beneficiary of it. Mostly though I've been the beneficiary of a stable, two-parent upbringing.

Jim
Even kids with two parents can have bad parents, it happens all too often. Sometimes a kid turns into a great adult, then sometimes the kid becomes a lawyer or crook. Hard to tell some apart anymore.


you're only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: A view from the left [Re: white17] #6891690
06/06/20 07:32 AM
06/06/20 07:32 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by white17
"We can develop a greater awareness of our own conscious and unconscious biases in order to make just decisions in individual cases,and we can administer justice and support court rules in a way that brings greater racial justice to our system as a whole."


Seems pretty clear to me that the court intends to make decisions based on their perceptions of their " conscious and unconscious biases" as well a supporting court rules that bring "greater racial justice".............


First of all, why/how would one have an "awareness" of an unconscious bias " ?

Second: their statement implies that up until now they have not made "just decisions in individual cases"....by following the actual law and they now intend to disregard that law and rule from ideology.

Is the idea to live by the rule of law or by the rule of racial justice , regardless of the law ?



More and more we are seeing the orthodoxy of the woke (new terminology defined by the AA as being aware of racial injustice) who seem to look at the US Bill of Rights ratified in 1791 as being written by;

1. Only men -strike #1
2. Godly perspective - strike #2
3. White, some of whom owned slaves - STRIKE #3!

You're out.
Any of us alive these past 60 years have sure witnessed a bent amongst more people to accept the rewriting of the governmental foundations of America. I ask folks all the time who think this way, "Whatcha gonna replace it with." The answer is always the same. It comes from the 19th century philosophers. They believe in FAIR. They don't know what that is, but 150 years of saying it has now sunk deep, deep roots.

The good news.
Providence may still be at work in our great land!

Blessings!
Mark

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