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Why no wolves in early 1900"s? #6900710
06/15/20 11:09 PM
06/15/20 11:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,108
NW MO
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TurkeyTime Offline OP
trapper
TurkeyTime  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,108
NW MO
Hello. I am reading the book Alaska's Wolf Man about Frank Glasser. He reports of large numbers of sheep, moose, caribou. From 1915-1925 he saw very few wolf tracks and no howling. After 1925 the wold numbers picked up and the other populations went down. Question: Why were the wolf numbers low to non existent?

Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6900994
06/16/20 10:26 AM
06/16/20 10:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,337
Fairbanks, Alaska
Pete in Frbks Offline
trapper
Pete in Frbks  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,337
Fairbanks, Alaska
Wolf populations are cyclic. Historically, as now, when wolf numbers were high, they would prey heavily on the ungulates. Once ungulate populations were reduced significantly, wolves had little to eat and thus their population dropped way down. That is how that "balance of nature" thing works out!

Once the prey populations build back up, the wolf numbers follow. But the problem is that if left to the natural cycle, it takes a LONG time.

Luckily we have learned a thing or two about predator-prey population dynamics and wildlife management. Now, by cropping off reasonable numbers of wolves, we can maintain prey populations at reasonable numbers as well. We do not have to wait years and years between population cycles. Not difficult or complicated in terms of biology. VERY complicated in terms of politics!

Pete

Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6901969
06/17/20 12:33 PM
06/17/20 12:33 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 771
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
trapper
broncoformudv  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 771
Anchorage, Alaska
Well said Pete.

Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6902038
06/17/20 02:01 PM
06/17/20 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,221
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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waggler  Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
I have a book that was written in 1898 as a guide book for Yukon and Alaska bound gold prospectors. It's actually a very detailed book suggesting the pros and cons of all the various routes to the gold fields as well as supply suggestions.

What I found interesting is the writer says "there is no need to take a firearm since there is no game in the county". This was written very early in the stampede, so the reason for no game was not because the prospectors had shot it all. There just was much to begin with. There is a lot of other evidence to support the lack of game during this time period.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6902149
06/17/20 04:11 PM
06/17/20 04:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
I knew an old man who had grown up on the west side of the Alaska Range...fairly close to the mountains...........He was born about 1903... He said he never saw a moose until he was 14-15


Mean As Nails
Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: white17] #6902883
06/18/20 09:44 AM
06/18/20 09:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,337
Fairbanks, Alaska
Pete in Frbks Offline
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Pete in Frbks  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,337
Fairbanks, Alaska
Originally Posted by white17
I knew an old man who had grown up on the west side of the Alaska Range...fairly close to the mountains...........He was born about 1903... He said he never saw a moose until he was 14-15


There were virtually no moose on the Koyukuk until mid-last century. Seeing a moose track was cause for celebration. Federal predator control efforts allowed

There were almost no moose on the North Slope when I began hunting there! There were virtually no moose on the Y-K Delta in the 80's! Crap...………….. I am old!

Pete

Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6902982
06/18/20 11:33 AM
06/18/20 11:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Its interesting how things change in the bush if you get a long enough perspective time wise.
From talking with oldtimers around here,in the 40's there were very few Marten and lots of fisher.
When I started trapping here in the early 70's it was mostly all marten country with very few fisher.
Now it is more marten but fisher are also common.
Same with the moose-there were much more caribou back in the day and few moose,now it is opposite.
On my own trapline,I have seen a shift from lots of fox and few lynx to lots of lynx and few fox in the span of 35 years or so.
The wolves have always been present,but I have seen years switch from smaller packs to larger packs and back.

Last edited by Boco; 06/18/20 11:35 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6903036
06/18/20 12:30 PM
06/18/20 12:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA
star flakes Offline
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star flakes  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA
For a written history, two time stamp writers recorded the situation, in Jack London mentions wolves in serious numbers when the rush began. Something took place which thankfully reduced wolf numbers, as Russell Annabel mentions more problems with bears, until the wolf population exploded and was creating havoc on everything from sheep to moose.
In noting that the Europeans found huge numbers of cape buffalo, but as Peter Capstick noted, the cattle they brought in, brought in a disease which wiped out the herds, the logic is something was brought into Alaska and the Yukon which the wolves caught. Huge numbers of lower 48 dogs were brought north, and that is a likely source, in the sled and pack dogs were penetrating the interior with prospectors, and they probably brought in an influx of rabies, distemper and worms.

The opposite was in the lower 48 where Teddy Roosevelt advocated with John Burroughs the extermination of wolves, lions, coyotes and bears, and leaving only populations which benefit humans. In that case, poisons were readily available to wipe out the predators, which brought back game numbers and protected livestock to feed the world. When Nixon banned poisons, that is when the real problems began, along with the gopher police transplanting predators into areas they should not be. Florida banned trapping and that created the raccoon distemper epidemic of the 80's which spread across America.

The solution to all of this, as the markets have been targeted by liberals, is a bounty system to make it profitable to deal with the situation. South Dakota astutely instituted one last year, and took out around 65,000 predators in the lower order. Kirsti Noem and her Game and Fish responded with this success, by cutting the bounty to 5 dollars, forced trappers to buy expensive licenses and then criminalized trappers, which taught a new generation of kids that you can not trust the government as it is out to screw you over.

America is different from Canada in population and open areas, so the systems can not be compared, but the United States federal and state game policies are a detriment to wildlife, livestock and are designed like Kristi Noem and all governors to keep people out of their lands.

Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: Pete in Frbks] #6903135
06/18/20 02:29 PM
06/18/20 02:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Pete in Frbks
Originally Posted by white17
I knew an old man who had grown up on the west side of the Alaska Range...fairly close to the mountains...........He was born about 1903... He said he never saw a moose until he was 14-15


There were virtually no moose on the Koyukuk until mid-last century. Seeing a moose track was cause for celebration. Federal predator control efforts allowed

There were almost no moose on the North Slope when I began hunting there! There were virtually no moose on the Y-K Delta in the 80's! Crap...………….. I am old!

Pete



Are you sure they had evolved by that time ?


Mean As Nails
Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6904153
06/19/20 02:45 PM
06/19/20 02:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,337
Fairbanks, Alaska
Pete in Frbks Offline
trapper
Pete in Frbks  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,337
Fairbanks, Alaska
Probably more extensively evolved than ME......!

Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6904597
06/19/20 09:43 PM
06/19/20 09:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 356
Atlin, British Columbia Canada
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cat catcher Offline
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cat catcher  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 356
Atlin, British Columbia Canada
Waggler what is the name of the book from 1898?
Thanks

Re: Why no wolves in early 1900"s? [Re: TurkeyTime] #6904774
06/20/20 01:39 AM
06/20/20 01:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 276
alaska
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trapped4ever Offline
trapper
trapped4ever  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 276
alaska
I seem to recall reading of many of the early military explorations in the 1880's, lead by guys like (Frederick Schwatka, Henry Allen, George Stoney, Michael Healy, etc), all mentioned a serious lack of game animals. So I suspect there must have been low populations, over the majority of the interior. Sidney Huntington definitely mentions the lack of moose in the Koyukuk drainage, during the early to mid 1900's, in "Shadows on the Koyukuk".

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