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30-30 question #6910174
06/25/20 10:12 AM
06/25/20 10:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline OP
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
So a friend of ours text yesterday and said he's been wanting to give The Boy a gun since he is really into hunting. He said he decided gifting him his Savage 340. He had the stock refinished and an older but new in box Leupold scope on it. He said has two mags for it and enough ammo to keep him shooting for the foreseeable future. It needs a sling but has the mounds attached. He is a small guy so his guns have shorter stocks or are youth models. Anyhow my question is since my son (The Boy) is only 9 and small is there a subsonic round or a lighter recoil round you would recommend? He has just started shooting my old youth 243 and it is about all he can handle as far as recoil I dont want him to get a flinch if I can help it. Thanks for looking.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
^^ The Boy shooting the 243


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910178
06/25/20 10:19 AM
06/25/20 10:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
central arkansas
T
the Blak Spot Offline
trapper
the Blak Spot  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
central arkansas
Do you reload?
Try some "cowboy" from ultramax or what ever that brand is


the just shall live by faith

member FTA, ATA, EAFT
1776 - the year we told a tyrant we weren't to be under a dictator
Caveat ater macula
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910183
06/25/20 10:25 AM
06/25/20 10:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,056
Western Wisconsin
T
TraderVic Offline
trapper
TraderVic  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,056
Western Wisconsin
I have both (243 & 30-30), in my opinion the 30-30 recoil less. It can depend on the platform, how light it is or is not, etc.
Let him shoot both and determine his comfort zone, so to speak.
If you load the 30-30 down, you'll want to keep your hunting distances a bit shorter or closer.

Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910189
06/25/20 10:30 AM
06/25/20 10:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline OP
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
I do not reload. But my buddy said the 30-30 is pretty light but we were shooting 100gr core-lokt in the 243. I haven't ever shot a 30-30 myself mom always shot one so can't imagine they are too awful rough. Guess we will see what he likes better. Shots from the stands he will sit should all be under 150 yard and most inside 75.


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910190
06/25/20 10:30 AM
06/25/20 10:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
C
cmcf Offline
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cmcf  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
Should be some reduced recoil loads from the major mfg. Sorry can’t give you a name, mid south shooters supply. , or Natchez probably have some offerings.
If you know someone that is a safe and meticulous reloader their are reduced power load data in the speer manuals . Good luck and good for you considering the flinch factor .


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910193
06/25/20 10:33 AM
06/25/20 10:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,851
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,851
perry co.Pa
I would suggest putting shooting muffs on over the plugs
I seem to believe the sound hurts young ears more than recoil hurts the shoulder
JMO

Re: 30-30 question [Re: cmcf] #6910196
06/25/20 10:34 AM
06/25/20 10:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline OP
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Originally Posted by cmcf
Should be some reduced recoil loads from the major mfg. Sorry can’t give you a name, mid south shooters supply. , or Natchez probably have some offerings.
If you know someone that is a safe and meticulous reloader their are reduced power load data in the speer manuals . Good luck and good for you considering the flinch factor .


I hate tracking marginally hit critters. Lol


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910201
06/25/20 10:44 AM
06/25/20 10:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
R
Rally Offline
trapper
Rally  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
Since you don't reload, use factory 150 gr. ammo rather than 170 gr., and maybe consider a slip on recoil pad and ear protection until he figures out it isn't going to hrt him.


Keep your boots dry
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Rally] #6910211
06/25/20 10:55 AM
06/25/20 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 674
Webster County W.V
matt Offline
trapper
matt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 674
Webster County W.V
Looking at the recoil numbers, they are going to be very close to the same. I am betting the 30-30 will feel less as it is a slower round. Let him try both and see what he has to say. I also think that adding muffs along with plugs is great idea.


Live each day as if it were your last. We know not at which hour it will come. Life is too short.Tell your loved ones each day how much you love them
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910214
06/25/20 10:59 AM
06/25/20 10:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline OP
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Might try muffs too thanks


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910215
06/25/20 11:03 AM
06/25/20 11:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
K
K52 Offline
trapper
K52  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
Originally Posted by Trap Setter
Originally Posted by cmcf
Should be some reduced recoil loads from the major mfg. Sorry can’t give you a name, mid south shooters supply. , or Natchez probably have some offerings.
If you know someone that is a safe and meticulous reloader their are reduced power load data in the speer manuals . Good luck and good for you considering the flinch factor .


I hate tracking marginally hit critters. Lol


I have reloaded reduced loads for kids for deer hunting with great success. They will kill deer just fine if put in the right place at a reasonable distance for the load, marginally hit critters has nothing to do with the load. Aim small, miss small. Sierra 125 sp in .30 cal. is a great bullet for kids loads for deer. Hodgdon powder has reduced loads on their site. This is a good excuse to get into reloading and you won't be at the mercy of panic buying if you use some fore thought.

Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910218
06/25/20 11:10 AM
06/25/20 11:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,928
La.
G
Gator Foot Offline
trapper
Gator Foot  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,928
La.
I think ether one would be fine, like everyone else said. But, if he uses a.243, he can use it for coyotes to, in the off season for deer.

Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910219
06/25/20 11:13 AM
06/25/20 11:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline OP
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Oh yeah didnt mean the marginal hits would be from lighter loads but from heavier ones causing the flinch action. Good info not sure I'm ready to get another hobby/obsession going just yet but I will keep it in mind.


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910232
06/25/20 11:28 AM
06/25/20 11:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 11,833
MT (Big Sky Country)
A
Allan Minear Offline
trapper
Allan Minear  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 11,833
MT (Big Sky Country)
My suggestion is to get him up off his butt and standing up so he can lean into the rifle and when he does shoot the recoil will just rock him backwards and the effects of the recoil will be marginal at best .

What I'm suggesting is similar to a trap shooters stance so hang onto the rifle firmly but relax from the chest down so the recoil pushes back the upper body it's way more enjoyable.

Quality ear muffs are important to foam roll up ear plugs don't always fit the best a and in some cases the noise can adversely effect accurate and enjoyable shooting experiences for a young shooter.

This method will allow the use of regular loads for what ever caliber you choose , shooting sticks can be used give it a try before you knock it you'll be surprised how well it works .
Allan


Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910238
06/25/20 11:43 AM
06/25/20 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,540
Sandhills Nebraska
When I was in basic training in Ft Dix there was a fella with a bad flinch at the rifle range. When we were done with basics and leaving on the bus, I remember looking out the window and there was Pvt Lance, standing in formation with his THIRD basic training unit, all because of a flinch he couldn't get rid of.

Last edited by Gary Benson; 06/25/20 11:44 AM.

Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910239
06/25/20 11:43 AM
06/25/20 11:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
C
cmcf Offline
trapper
cmcf  Offline
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C

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067
Wyoming
Did a search for reduced recoil amunition
Midway carries Remington managed recoil 135gr 30-30 Winchester currently out of stock but back order ok.
Sure glad I’m not at the mercy of supply and demand. Sorry I cannot agree that reloading is a hobby, it used to be
before the world went mad. Now I consider it an essential. I checked three sights and there were more products that were out of stock than in. Wow panic buying, guess everyone is stocking up for granddaddy’s old thuty-thuty.


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910243
06/25/20 11:44 AM
06/25/20 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,241
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,241
The Hill Country of Texas
Is a .223 not a legal means of take?


“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910244
06/25/20 11:45 AM
06/25/20 11:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,032
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
"Wilbur"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,032
Coldspring Texas
Give him a dip of snuff... a lone star longneck...and a green and yellow box of 170 grain


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910291
06/25/20 12:30 PM
06/25/20 12:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline OP
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,166
Eau Claire Wi
Thanks guys we will put the muffs on and get him standing next time out.

That's what I want to avoid Gary fixing a flinch can be next to impossible if it takes hold.

Cmcf you are right about the supply side I may have to bite the bullet and get into reloading.

A 223 is legal but I own 2 youth 243's and The Boy is getting the 30-30 given to him today so not looking to buy another caliber right now.

I think Savell has the best answer not the best solution for a 9 Y/O but a great response for sure laugh


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: 30-30 question [Re: Trap Setter] #6910346
06/25/20 01:10 PM
06/25/20 01:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,388
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,388
Green County Wisconsin
cowboy loads , I make cast reloads that are like a 22 but I reload

although that 30-30 savage 340 you can really make gains with because it can use a spitzer bullet no tube so learning to reload might keep him in ammo and make him a real master with that gun.

having an action and bolt lugs that can take 55Kpsi as it was chambered in other cartridges in that pressure range the 340 not that I advocate going or cartridge spec but the action is solid way beyond what factory 30-30 can produce . just the change to a spitzer bullet can make 30-30 really excel , the round nose bullets have much more air drag , the pointed spitzer bullets retain more velocity and energy at distance.

if you keep to Leverevoluion powder for normal book pressures you can get 2500fps with a 150gr spitzer puts that little rifle on the heals of a 308win

I looked at a bunch of 340 and 325 savage rifles , kicked myself a little for not buying one of those handy little rifles a few times when I saw one but wasn't fast enough to get it before it was sold.

in end I could buy a new 308 for what those in good shape now sell for and I did and do not regret it , but the savage 340 was a prized possession of many hunter.

if he has a problem holding the weight make him a set of shooting sticks , then he can be stable and stand and lean into it. very easy to make with a table saw rip some 1x4 into 3/4 by 3/4 strips , use a bolt and wing nut , put some padding on the V where the gun rests , some 3 inch screws in the bottom cut off with a grinder it will stick in the grass nice and make a steady enough rest for the rifle.

or stand at the bench sort of half laying over it , his head should be farther forward sort of half laying on the table with a rest up front , roll up one or two of those towels tight and put a couple wraps of duct tape around

you may well need to build up the cheek so that with a good cheek weld he can see clear through the glass, that half chin touching , the gun moves more and smacks you foam sleeping pad and horse wrap or hornady makes a pad with some cartridge loops https://www.opticsplanet.com/hornady-gun-cheek-piece.html
it will get you about 1/2 inch of rise he may need more than that then put foam sleeping pad and horse wrap under it

to make sure he isn't developing a flinch you load the gun place the safety on and hand it to him he shoots , mix it up randomly put a spent case back in and watch him if flinches you need more ball dummy till he doesn't.

foam and muffs can help also , when you do this you should work out that if you put your hand on his shoulder he freezes finger off trigger incase he can't here your instruction then you have a safety protocol in place and you can pull the muffs and talk to him. even if he can hear still that is always a good plane hand on shoulder is a full stop finger off trigger maintain a safe direction.

more time on the 22lr then a few rounds on the 30-30 stop before he starts to flinch.

do you have a 22lr in a similar configuration ?

you can always do more 22 and wait till he grows a bit if the recoil is too much , keep his experience positive

I have shot 170gr green and yellow box rem in my 30-30 and don't think they have much recoil , less than a 20ga shotgun , my son's first non 22 when he was 10 and we had just gotten mentored hunting in WI.




Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 06/25/20 01:15 PM.

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