As the morals of any nation or people decline, there is always disagreement over how immoral the immorality is.
This forum, and all others, show us that clearly.

All of us are sinful by nature.
Some profess this by their faith.
Others just think of themselves as a category of "why" I do the things I do.
Others say I like me this way.
Others say who cares.
Most say do not judge me.

Some of us, fewer by the day - in a growing culture of immorality (morals defined by Scripture, not by humans) just go about our business the best we can, prayerful that we can be a bit more righteous tomorrow than today by the power of the Spirit, because if it were up to just us...
I'd be a poor choice to change me.

Blessings!
Mark

Bingo.
That's the only sensible answer.

Did anyone respond to this? If not, educate me.

I’m just curious who is willing to put their money where their mouth is. There are currently almost half a million kids in US foster care, many available for adoption. Who fully supports government programs to take care of these children? Who gives financial aid (not in taxes) to help out these many children? Who supports programs that help these kids when they are adults and in trouble, whether legal, financial or mental? Who thinks that women should be forced to carry and give birth to a child that may suffer a terrible upbringing is so important that they are willing to financially and emotionally help those kids?

Unless you are willing to help carry the burden then I think the strong stances are blowing hot air around a topic that was moot until it became political.

To me it’s strange as all heck considering how many unwanted children become the very people so many on here despise, the social program users, the incarcerated, the uneducated, the poverty stricken. If you think most unwanted children end up living amongst beautiful row crops in Iowa or on a mountainside in Idaho then I think you are sorely mistaken.

When a society answers questions just as Aristotle advocated (from man to the heavens) rather than as Plato advocated (from the heavens to man), there is bound to be a difference. Western civilization (us) is Aristotilian in our education, our logic, and our laws.

So we wrestle with what one human says versus what another human says versus what another human says versus what another human says versus what another human says versus what another human says....

I'm going to need more space for this.

Perhaps a difference is that we have now had a century of publicly funded (so we know it's reliable) education and 4 good decades of higher education (universities) where most K-12 shuffle off to, where they have been taught repeatedly that what every human says is in fact correct. Grades, and results, and scores = toss those out = not fair = racist = suppressive.

This is going to get interesting in the coming years.
Some are going to decide they are correcter than the other correct.

I've read the Bible, I'm not so sure it's a great place to look for morality.

I won't even attempt to answer this one.

Why should we carry a burden that is preventable?

You are right. Them kids would be better off dead. Just like all people who suffer. It is not like we have to support other peoples kids voluntarily. The do gooders already made it mandatory. The same do gooders that want them kids dead, so they don't have to support them.

It has got so stupid now In Europe. The taxpayers pay people to have kids, because they need future people to support all them retired people.


That wore me out. Time to go chug a Brawndo "The thirst Mutilator" My body craves it.

rvask, please tell me what a great job Canada has done and how you support it?

Plato also reccomended all children be raised by the state and that incest between siblings would be fine.

Hobbietrapper, why worry about the burden then if you don’t wish to share carrying the weight of it just because it is preventable? Everything that is “problematic “ is preventable. Currently the about 4000 ex foster kids a year end up homeless, victims of ptsd, drug addiction etc. Foster care is described as the pipeline to prison in the USA as us, imagine how bad it’d be, seriously , picture it.

If you’re unwilling to share in the burden then you’re part of the problem if you think every aborted fetus should be born.

When your source of morality supports slavery, genocide and incest it may be more prudent to question the source.

Donnersurvivor,
What source is that?

Oh and I didn't recommend Platoian philosophy.
Clarification on that point.

Rex123, I’m unsure specifically what you are asking.

In terms of support I support our women’s right to choose. If they choose to terminate a pregnancy I support them I also support those kids that were carried to term and dumped in Foster Care by supporting all programs for them, spending my money at times to help those kids in need, by not whining when my tax money pays for their programs and treatments needed. I educate myself in their behaviours and likelyhood of social issues, dysfunction and traumas because of it and I teach my kids to be empathetic as well as about birth control. Kids have sex, the places that preach absutinence have the highest rates of teen pregnancies.The Foster system here is no better and I cannot fathom the problem being immensely worse with a huge influx of forced births.

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property"- Exodus 21-20

Find a verse that condemns slavery.

After God rains down fire on Sodom and Gomora destroying all in the city for being "immoral" Lotts daughters sleep with him and have two childeren, no holy fire was rained down by my memory for that.

As far as genocide goes, may as well go with samuel 15:3 here Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

It was the exact same question you asked american's on here . What do you do other than what we do . You seemed to be judging so I assumed you had a better answer. Sounds like that's not the case.

I grew up with no reward for bad behavior and so it goes now.

I'm afraid there is too much to dive into on TMan to right your apple cart. I will offer, you are not reading the narrative with the correct interpretation.

If an infinite Creator revealed Inspired Word to the created, would the finite created understand all that is revealed perfectly?
Protestants believe no. Might get a good jist, but we are not God so we pray the Holy Spirit, who Inspired the writing by human authors, assists us.
And we huddle as a church body to dialog, to add another layer of interpretive understanding.

I've been off kilter so many times in my hermeneutics that it's wondrous to have faithful brethren to work through the text together.

Mine is not a sincere deflection, but I think you're reading the Bible as one who seeks to sees himself and his ways advocated in it.
Very common in unbelievers, and those not saved through Christ.

Blessings
Mark

That is the crux of it is it not? Ambiguity which allows interpretation to justify about anything you want it to. Anyone who does something you disapprove of "they are not real Christians".

"would the finite created understand all that is revealed perfectly?"

Well consider billions of souls are riding on it I guess I would hope the creator would make things pretty clear cut.