Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: nyhuntfish]
#6935597
07/19/20 08:30 PM
07/19/20 08:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828 Hill City,Mn.
Rally
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828
Hill City,Mn.
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nyhuntfish, When using multi-strand cable/wire rope, such as 7x7, 7x19 (1x19 and 1x7 are classified as single strand cable) the following apply. If you have a swaging tool, you put the sleeve(DF) in the correct size notch sideways, start at one end and keep swaging until you run out of sleeve. If you only have a hammer, lay the sleeve flat and pound it flatter. A swaging tool has the correct size notches designated to specific sized sleeves (aluminum is different than steel) and when swaged sideways like demonstrated in that video clip, won't allow the aluminum to swage out the sides like you are doing when hammering any stop or sleeve, but restrains the sideways movement of the aluminum to the dimension of the notch, in the swaging tools jaws. The reason to start at one end when using a swaging tool, is that the sleeve or stop, elongates with each compression, and adds additional length to the stop or sleeve, which allows more number of compressions per fitting/sleeve/stop. What you are doing when you swage or pound a stop/sleeve onto any wire rope, is swaging the aluminum/steel/copper/bi-metal into the voids of the cable/wire rope. The denser the material is in the stop/sleeve, the more amount of tonnage you need to move the material, to fill the voids in the cable. With a swaging tool, and the correct sized stop/sleeves, you are filling more of the voids in the cable from about 75% of surface area. When you are pounding a stop/sleeve you are just filling the top and bottom of the voids in the cable, and not getting as much compression of the material the stop/sleeve is made of. The denser the material swaged into the voids, the finished length of compression, and depth of compression all add to the strength/weakness of the finished product. Not all cable/wire rope/sleeves/stops, are created equal, manufactured to the same specs, nor quality of material. With a swaging tool, you can also swage a sleeve full length, turn it 90 degrees, and also swage the fins/ribs left by the first swaging process to gain additional strength. What bctomcat has demonstrated above, is causing an interruption in the surface of the cable, or made the metal denser by applying a deeper compression of the sleeve in that direct area where pictured. There are commercial machines that swage in three stages that leave two large dents in one side of a sleeve and a single dent in the opposite side. Industry claims it exceeds cable strength.
Keep your boots dry
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: nyhuntfish]
#6935808
07/20/20 12:24 AM
07/20/20 12:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,834 Wisconsin
The Beav
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Wisconsin
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Then of coarse if you use the wrong sleeves for that specific cable and the wrong swagger notch your going to have loses.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: nyhuntfish]
#6936221
07/20/20 01:05 PM
07/20/20 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,100 New York
nyhuntfish
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,100
New York
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Thanks everyone. I think I'll try some of this now.
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: Rally]
#6936316
07/20/20 03:31 PM
07/20/20 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,100 New York
nyhuntfish
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Posts: 1,100
New York
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nyhuntfish, When using multi-strand cable/wire rope, such as 7x7, 7x19 (1x19 and 1x7 are classified as single strand cable) the following apply. If you have a swaging tool, you put the sleeve(DF) in the correct size notch sideways, start at one end and keep swaging until you run out of sleeve. If you only have a hammer, lay the sleeve flat and pound it flatter. A swaging tool has the correct size notches designated to specific sized sleeves (aluminum is different than steel) and when swaged sideways like demonstrated in that video clip, won't allow the aluminum to swage out the sides like you are doing when hammering any stop or sleeve, but restrains the sideways movement of the aluminum to the dimension of the notch, in the swaging tools jaws. The reason to start at one end when using a swaging tool, is that the sleeve or stop, elongates with each compression, and adds additional length to the stop or sleeve, which allows more number of compressions per fitting/sleeve/stop. What you are doing when you swage or pound a stop/sleeve onto any wire rope, is swaging the aluminum/steel/copper/bi-metal into the voids of the cable/wire rope. The denser the material is in the stop/sleeve, the more amount of tonnage you need to move the material, to fill the voids in the cable. With a swaging tool, and the correct sized stop/sleeves, you are filling more of the voids in the cable from about 75% of surface area. When you are pounding a stop/sleeve you are just filling the top and bottom of the voids in the cable, and not getting as much compression of the material the stop/sleeve is made of. The denser the material swaged into the voids, the finished length of compression, and depth of compression all add to the strength/weakness of the finished product. Not all cable/wire rope/sleeves/stops, are created equal, manufactured to the same specs, nor quality of material. With a swaging tool, you can also swage a sleeve full length, turn it 90 degrees, and also swage the fins/ribs left by the first swaging process to gain additional strength. What bctomcat has demonstrated above, is causing an interruption in the surface of the cable, or made the metal denser by applying a deeper compression of the sleeve in that direct area where pictured. There are commercial machines that swage in three stages that leave two large dents in one side of a sleeve and a single dent in the opposite side. Industry claims it exceeds cable strength.
Thank you for this wonderfully detailed answer. I printed it out and put in my trapping book for reference.
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: nyhuntfish]
#6936378
07/20/20 04:47 PM
07/20/20 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,794 100 Mile House, BC Can
bctomcat
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,794
100 Mile House, BC Can
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I would say yes but it will be a bit more awkward and I would think the iron block should be anchored to keep it from moving with a sideways blow.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: nyhuntfish]
#6936382
07/20/20 04:51 PM
07/20/20 04:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,834 Wisconsin
The Beav
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,834
Wisconsin
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I think the blunted edge of a chisel would be the way to go.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: nyhuntfish]
#6936804
07/20/20 11:52 PM
07/20/20 11:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 828 Hill City,Mn.
Rally
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Hill City,Mn.
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Walleye101, Yes there is something to the over pounding, but could also be you got some poor sleeves, poorly formed, thin walled and full of dirt. Best way to tell is to look at external finish and color of sleeve. If it appears frosty, rough, and has minute dark spots in metal (dirt), you most likely got some cheap import sleeves made of poor material, which is harder than it should be, penetrates/forms less or requires more strength in swaging. Lots of that stuff out there and manufacturing specs went out the window. Poor base metal being forced through swaging dies in manufacturing process causes the frosting on exterior and also some tempering/ hardening of exterior surfaces. Dirt in the finished product is just poor quality control, often leaving the end user to be quality control, or base metals of uncertified content. Some I've seen even have a yellow tinge to them from being cooled or tumbled in used oils, and actually feel "slick". Any guesses where it comes from? LOL
Keep your boots dry
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: nyhuntfish]
#6936973
07/21/20 08:42 AM
07/21/20 08:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,028 West Cent IL
illinideer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,028
West Cent IL
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I use my 3lb hammer but hit them flat just hard enough to squish them tight just a couple of taps. J
Coyote 5 Badger 1 Coons 17 Bobcats 2 Released Grinners All of them USN AE2 VF-31 Tomcatters Retired SMSGT IL ANG 183 Fighter Wing Coyote U Class #4
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Re: Ferrule advice for the newbe
[Re: illinideer]
#6937644
07/21/20 07:40 PM
07/21/20 07:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,467 MN
walleye101
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Posts: 3,467
MN
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I use my 3lb hammer but hit them flat just hard enough to squish them tight just a couple of taps. J That is exactly how I had been doing it but hat multiple failures last fall. Apparently not squished quite tight enough.
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