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Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6952807
08/03/20 04:58 PM
08/03/20 04:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,806
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,806
Georgia
Question, are these calves and sheep being raised by the government on government land for government purposes?
Or are they private businesses enjoying a government subsidy?

Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6952845
08/03/20 05:25 PM
08/03/20 05:25 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,954
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,954
Oakland, MS
Ha, someone mentioned Wiley E on another thread and now here he is, LOL.

Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6952853
08/03/20 05:28 PM
08/03/20 05:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,272
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Offline
"Trapperman custodian"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,272
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Mr. Scott Huber was also known as WileyE on here. He was a valuable asset through the informative posts he made. I hope to see him post more in the future.

Great to see you on here Scott.



Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6953127
08/03/20 07:36 PM
08/03/20 07:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
S
Scott Huber Offline
trapper
Scott Huber  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
Hello Paul! Thanks! Love the flag.

Hey Beav glad to see you still kicking up dust!

Warrior: "Question, are these calves and sheep being raised by the government on government land for government purposes?
Or are they private businesses enjoying a government subsidy?"


This is private livestock killed by public wildlife some of which are coming from public lands.

We can debate forever whether the government should be involved in predator control or not but one thing is for certain, in most cases fur trapping in the winter months, as some see as a viable alternative to predator control programs, has absolutely no impact on whether or not calf killing will occur on a particular ranch the following spring or lamb killing the following summer.

We go back into the same areas year after year and remove coyote pairs that showed up after the prime fur season. Livestock protection is about killing coyote pairs in February, March, April before they den and in the denning months of May, June, and July. I might also add that there is always a side benefit to livestock protection with deer and antelope in areas of suppressed deer and antelope populations which is also a public benefit. In addition the removal of problem coyotes in historic problem areas during the spring and summer is a better alternative to whole scale coyote population reduction. Broad scale coyote population reduction would not be cost effective in most situations which leaves many areas, outside of heavy sheep production areas, with a healthy population of coyotes for fur hunters and callers the following winter.

Most states in the west have county and federal predator control programs.

Which leads to a question for you, does the public have a responsibility to alleviate the damage caused by the public's wildlife when it impacts private livestock? How about considering that the public took away the livestock producer's ability to do that when they banned compound 1080 and promised them a professional, accountable government program in exchange?? Promises forgotten?

I have heard many times how some believe ranchers should learn to solve their own problems, That argument only holds water if you also expect every rancher to become a plumber, electrician, carpenter, concrete guy, mechanic, welder, and any other specialized occupation he chooses to pay for while he is busy calving. Even if they had the desire to learn to call, trap, snare, etc. coyotes, which some have, they don't have the time during calving and lambing. In fact, I had two friends who were both very accomplished coyote callers who requested my service when they were calving because they were busy calving.

If you don't think the counties, state, or Government should be involved in predator control, then they shouldn't be involved in determining how ranchers can kill coyotes either. Ranchers didn't need much help when they could use compound 1080 but it was banned because of secondary poisoning related to strychnine. The Federal government stepping in to save ranchers from themselves.

In SD, predator control is funded by county funds generated from a tax on livestock, matching funds from GFP, and less than a 1/3 in Federal funds towards an aerial hunting program.

In WY there is brand tax of $1 per head on cattle and sheep and there is also additional county and state funding. The county program had by far the best service and highest level of accountability between the two programs and trappers were not bound by a 40 hour work week like they are in state and Federal programs. Absolutely no comparison from a service and program efficiency standpoint.

Another reason county, state, and the Federal Government is involved in predator control programs is due to the accountability that is supposed to accompany the program and the vetting of employees. Yes, I know what I just wrote in my lengthy novel to the contrary but there is still more accountability than the private sector particularly when working with laws pertaining to aerial hunting.

Have a good one Warrior!



~SH~

Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6953210
08/03/20 08:37 PM
08/03/20 08:37 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,246
Montana
B
beartooth trapr Offline
trapper
beartooth trapr  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,246
Montana
Good read scott , alot of good points forsure.


Let me sugar coat this
Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6953304
08/03/20 09:36 PM
08/03/20 09:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,914
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper Offline
trapper
Jtrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,914
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
In case you were wondering Huber Goober i still have my buckey beaver award, found it 10 years ago when we were moving, lol.


Not my circus, not my clowns.
Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6953312
08/03/20 09:43 PM
08/03/20 09:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 939
SE Minnesota
D
dustytinner Offline
trapper
dustytinner  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 939
SE Minnesota
Very informative and interesting. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us Scott.


Life member Minnesota Trappers Association
FTA,NTA.
Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6953362
08/03/20 10:26 PM
08/03/20 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,806
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,806
Georgia
All valid points however the rancher can always call a plumber, electrician or trapper. The private sector is growing to meet multiple needs in the ADC world.

Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6953774
08/04/20 11:22 AM
08/04/20 11:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
S
Scott Huber Offline
trapper
Scott Huber  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
J Twappah, glad to see you are still out and about too. You know I can't even remember why you won the coveted "Bucky Beaver Badge" but I am sure it was well deserved. Haha! Good to hear from you 2.

~SH~

Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6953780
08/04/20 11:32 AM
08/04/20 11:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
S
Scott Huber Offline
trapper
Scott Huber  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
In re-reading my original post, there is something I forgot to mention that is extremely important for readers to understand. I realize there is lots of opinions on whether or not county, state, and federal trapping programs should exist (animal rights activists, perceived competition by private sector, etc.). If the majority of the public opposed these programs after careful debate (as if that ever happens) and decided to change the laws, I would accept that as that is how I believe these things should be handled. I wouldn't like it but I would accept it.

That is a huge contrast from what happened in SD GFP by an Administration and inexperienced management structure that placed their own personal anti predator control agendas ahead of state mandated responsibilities then tried to cover up the damage those decisions created. In addition, that same management structure still falsely believes that they are better equipped to run a predator control program with biologists than experienced predator control men and/or women.

That is what I cannot stomach.


~SH~

Last edited by Scott Huber; 08/04/20 11:34 AM.
Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6954003
08/04/20 04:33 PM
08/04/20 04:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 247
WYOMING
J
John Graham Offline
trapper
John Graham  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 247
WYOMING
Well said, Scott

Your insight to this topic is one of the reasons why I asked you to do a demo at Coyote Days!

Having both you, and Chris McAllister, be part of the program this year is a huge plus.

See you soon!

Re: Government Trappers [Re: Scott Huber] #6954024
08/04/20 04:52 PM
08/04/20 04:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,245
lovington NM
T
TravC Offline
"MCnasty"
TravC  Offline
"MCnasty"
T

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,245
lovington NM
Originally Posted by Scott Huber
In re-reading my original post, there is something I forgot to mention that is extremely important for readers to understand. I realize there is lots of opinions on whether or not county, state, and federal trapping programs should exist (animal rights activists, perceived competition by private sector, etc.). If the majority of the public opposed these programs after careful debate (as if that ever happens) and decided to change the laws, I would accept that as that is how I believe these things should be handled. I wouldn't like it but I would accept it.

That is a huge contrast from what happened in SD GFP by an Administration and inexperienced management structure that placed their own personal anti predator control agendas ahead of state mandated responsibilities then tried to cover up the damage those decisions created. In addition, that same management structure still falsely believes that they are better equipped to run a predator control program with biologists than experienced predator control men and/or women.

That is what I cannot stomach.


~SH~



We in nm are seeing the same sitchuation that you described instead of exrienced trappers biologists and students Are getting the positions andcauseing problems. Its becomeing a big mess


There i said it....
Re: Government Trappers [Re: warrior] #6954071
08/04/20 05:39 PM
08/04/20 05:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 753
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 753
Nebraska
Originally Posted by warrior
All valid points however the rancher can always call a plumber, electrician or trapper. The private sector is growing to meet multiple needs in the ADC world.


The landowner has that option to call a private trapper if they desire to do so and many have gone that route in certain areas. Just because WS may be an available option in the area the landowner still makes his own choice. WS can't just fly around and shoot coyotes from a plane or do ground work anywhere they please.

Re: Government Trappers [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #6954474
08/04/20 10:11 PM
08/04/20 10:11 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,246
Montana
B
beartooth trapr Offline
trapper
beartooth trapr  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,246
Montana
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
Originally Posted by warrior
All valid points however the rancher can always call a plumber, electrician or trapper. The private sector is growing to meet multiple needs in the ADC world.


The landowner has that option to call a private trapper if they desire to do so and many have gone that route in certain areas. Just because WS may be an available option in the area the landowner still makes his own choice. WS can't just fly around and shoot coyotes from a plane or do ground work anywhere they please.

In my area ws will work a ranch till they fire the rancher more less quite.
I hate doing coyote a.d.c. work , but not wanting to lose the biggest ranch i trap i say yes.
It's just too time consuming for me in the spring and early summer.
My hat's off to trappers that do it for a living whether it be a.d.c. private or wildlife service.


Let me sugar coat this
Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6955169
08/05/20 02:33 PM
08/05/20 02:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
S
Scott Huber Offline
trapper
Scott Huber  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
silkyplainscoyot: "The landowner has that option to call a private trapper if they desire to do so and many have gone that route in certain areas. Just because WS may be an available option in the area the landowner still makes his own choice. WS can't just fly around and shoot coyotes from a plane or do ground work anywhere they please."

That is correct and as the quality of service from a state or Federal trapper declines, due to mismanagement, you will see more and more work going to the private sector. For a private trapper, as with a Federal or State Trapper, there is still a responsibility to produce. Some private trappers are serious about it and will do their best to provide quality service but there is just as many would be looking at this as a possible opportunity to gain access to private ground the following winter for fur or access for hunting. Those types usually do more harm than good.

Larry Bowden wrote an excellent post a while back on developing landowner relations on a year round basis. I couldn't agree with him more on that. Being willing to throw a few calves at branding or learn to fix some fence can go a long ways in accessing private ground during the fur season. Helping resolve calf kills that are not being resolved by another entity could be one of those opportunities. With that said, the private trapper is going to have to produce results to gain possible access the following winter for fur trapping.

Lamb killing requires a lot more effort and knowledge than addressing calf kills because you can't leave any loose ends behind with sheep. With calf kills you get in and hammer them hard just before or during the problem and it is usually short lived once you break up the family groups.

Good point Silky!


~SH~

Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6955392
08/05/20 07:07 PM
08/05/20 07:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,914
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper Offline
trapper
Jtrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,914
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
I WISH more landowner's would call private people! Was several scattered about that helped take up the slack but seems alot of them
quit, cut back, something as call's seem to be getting more and more the past few years. Plus now we're over ran with feral swine which
is a whole other monster of it's own.


Not my circus, not my clowns.
Re: Government Trappers [Re: Jtrapper] #6955397
08/05/20 07:14 PM
08/05/20 07:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,186
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
"Wilbur"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,186
Coldspring Texas
Originally Posted by Jtrapper
I WISH more landowner's would call private people! Was several scattered about that helped take up the slack but seems alot of them
quit, cut back, something as call's seem to be getting more and more the past few years. Plus now we're over ran with feral swine which
is a whole other monster of it's own.



... hey Jtrap ... What are you talking about? ... them pigs smarter than you ?


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6955399
08/05/20 07:15 PM
08/05/20 07:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,186
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
"Wilbur"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,186
Coldspring Texas
.... try something other than a 330 for the big ones


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Government Trappers [Re: AuthorTrapper] #6955504
08/05/20 09:09 PM
08/05/20 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,914
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper Offline
trapper
Jtrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,914
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Thanks for that thoughtful contribution.


Not my circus, not my clowns.
Re: Government Trappers [Re: Jtrapper] #6955574
08/05/20 09:42 PM
08/05/20 09:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,186
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
"Wilbur"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,186
Coldspring Texas
Originally Posted by Jtrapper
Thanks for that thoughtful contribution.


..... you know where to find me if you ever need anymore tips partner


Insert profound nonsense here
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