Re: Government Trappers
[Re: AuthorTrapper]
#6953127
08/03/20 07:36 PM
08/03/20 07:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88 South Dakota
Scott Huber
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
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Hello Paul! Thanks! Love the flag.
Hey Beav glad to see you still kicking up dust!
Warrior: "Question, are these calves and sheep being raised by the government on government land for government purposes? Or are they private businesses enjoying a government subsidy?"
This is private livestock killed by public wildlife some of which are coming from public lands.
We can debate forever whether the government should be involved in predator control or not but one thing is for certain, in most cases fur trapping in the winter months, as some see as a viable alternative to predator control programs, has absolutely no impact on whether or not calf killing will occur on a particular ranch the following spring or lamb killing the following summer.
We go back into the same areas year after year and remove coyote pairs that showed up after the prime fur season. Livestock protection is about killing coyote pairs in February, March, April before they den and in the denning months of May, June, and July. I might also add that there is always a side benefit to livestock protection with deer and antelope in areas of suppressed deer and antelope populations which is also a public benefit. In addition the removal of problem coyotes in historic problem areas during the spring and summer is a better alternative to whole scale coyote population reduction. Broad scale coyote population reduction would not be cost effective in most situations which leaves many areas, outside of heavy sheep production areas, with a healthy population of coyotes for fur hunters and callers the following winter.
Most states in the west have county and federal predator control programs.
Which leads to a question for you, does the public have a responsibility to alleviate the damage caused by the public's wildlife when it impacts private livestock? How about considering that the public took away the livestock producer's ability to do that when they banned compound 1080 and promised them a professional, accountable government program in exchange?? Promises forgotten?
I have heard many times how some believe ranchers should learn to solve their own problems, That argument only holds water if you also expect every rancher to become a plumber, electrician, carpenter, concrete guy, mechanic, welder, and any other specialized occupation he chooses to pay for while he is busy calving. Even if they had the desire to learn to call, trap, snare, etc. coyotes, which some have, they don't have the time during calving and lambing. In fact, I had two friends who were both very accomplished coyote callers who requested my service when they were calving because they were busy calving.
If you don't think the counties, state, or Government should be involved in predator control, then they shouldn't be involved in determining how ranchers can kill coyotes either. Ranchers didn't need much help when they could use compound 1080 but it was banned because of secondary poisoning related to strychnine. The Federal government stepping in to save ranchers from themselves.
In SD, predator control is funded by county funds generated from a tax on livestock, matching funds from GFP, and less than a 1/3 in Federal funds towards an aerial hunting program.
In WY there is brand tax of $1 per head on cattle and sheep and there is also additional county and state funding. The county program had by far the best service and highest level of accountability between the two programs and trappers were not bound by a 40 hour work week like they are in state and Federal programs. Absolutely no comparison from a service and program efficiency standpoint.
Another reason county, state, and the Federal Government is involved in predator control programs is due to the accountability that is supposed to accompany the program and the vetting of employees. Yes, I know what I just wrote in my lengthy novel to the contrary but there is still more accountability than the private sector particularly when working with laws pertaining to aerial hunting.
Have a good one Warrior!
~SH~
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: AuthorTrapper]
#6953312
08/03/20 09:43 PM
08/03/20 09:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,561 SE Minnesota
dustytinner
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,561
SE Minnesota
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Very informative and interesting. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us Scott.
Life member Minnesota Trappers Association FTA,Sportsmen's Alliance
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: AuthorTrapper]
#6953780
08/04/20 11:32 AM
08/04/20 11:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88 South Dakota
Scott Huber
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 88
South Dakota
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In re-reading my original post, there is something I forgot to mention that is extremely important for readers to understand. I realize there is lots of opinions on whether or not county, state, and federal trapping programs should exist (animal rights activists, perceived competition by private sector, etc.). If the majority of the public opposed these programs after careful debate (as if that ever happens) and decided to change the laws, I would accept that as that is how I believe these things should be handled. I wouldn't like it but I would accept it.
That is a huge contrast from what happened in SD GFP by an Administration and inexperienced management structure that placed their own personal anti predator control agendas ahead of state mandated responsibilities then tried to cover up the damage those decisions created. In addition, that same management structure still falsely believes that they are better equipped to run a predator control program with biologists than experienced predator control men and/or women.
That is what I cannot stomach.
~SH~
Last edited by Scott Huber; 08/04/20 11:34 AM.
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: Scott Huber]
#6954024
08/04/20 04:52 PM
08/04/20 04:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,510 South Dakota
TravC
"MCnasty"
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"MCnasty"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,510
South Dakota
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In re-reading my original post, there is something I forgot to mention that is extremely important for readers to understand. I realize there is lots of opinions on whether or not county, state, and federal trapping programs should exist (animal rights activists, perceived competition by private sector, etc.). If the majority of the public opposed these programs after careful debate (as if that ever happens) and decided to change the laws, I would accept that as that is how I believe these things should be handled. I wouldn't like it but I would accept it.
That is a huge contrast from what happened in SD GFP by an Administration and inexperienced management structure that placed their own personal anti predator control agendas ahead of state mandated responsibilities then tried to cover up the damage those decisions created. In addition, that same management structure still falsely believes that they are better equipped to run a predator control program with biologists than experienced predator control men and/or women.
That is what I cannot stomach.
~SH~ We in nm are seeing the same sitchuation that you described instead of exrienced trappers biologists and students Are getting the positions andcauseing problems. Its becomeing a big mess
There i said it....
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: warrior]
#6954071
08/04/20 05:39 PM
08/04/20 05:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,487 Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,487
Nebraska
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All valid points however the rancher can always call a plumber, electrician or trapper. The private sector is growing to meet multiple needs in the ADC world. The landowner has that option to call a private trapper if they desire to do so and many have gone that route in certain areas. Just because WS may be an available option in the area the landowner still makes his own choice. WS can't just fly around and shoot coyotes from a plane or do ground work anywhere they please.
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: silkyplainscoyot]
#6954474
08/04/20 10:11 PM
08/04/20 10:11 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,982 Montana
beartooth trapr
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,982
Montana
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All valid points however the rancher can always call a plumber, electrician or trapper. The private sector is growing to meet multiple needs in the ADC world. The landowner has that option to call a private trapper if they desire to do so and many have gone that route in certain areas. Just because WS may be an available option in the area the landowner still makes his own choice. WS can't just fly around and shoot coyotes from a plane or do ground work anywhere they please. In my area ws will work a ranch till they fire the rancher more less quite. I hate doing coyote a.d.c. work , but not wanting to lose the biggest ranch i trap i say yes. It's just too time consuming for me in the spring and early summer. My hat's off to trappers that do it for a living whether it be a.d.c. private or wildlife service.
Let me sugar coat this
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: AuthorTrapper]
#6955392
08/05/20 07:07 PM
08/05/20 07:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,377 Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,377
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
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I WISH more landowner's would call private people! Was several scattered about that helped take up the slack but seems alot of them quit, cut back, something as call's seem to be getting more and more the past few years. Plus now we're over ran with feral swine which is a whole other monster of it's own.
Not my circus, not my clowns.
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: Jtrapper]
#6955397
08/05/20 07:14 PM
08/05/20 07:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,082 Coldspring Texas
Savell
"Wilbur"
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"Wilbur"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,082
Coldspring Texas
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I WISH more landowner's would call private people! Was several scattered about that helped take up the slack but seems alot of them quit, cut back, something as call's seem to be getting more and more the past few years. Plus now we're over ran with feral swine which is a whole other monster of it's own. ... hey Jtrap ... What are you talking about? ... them pigs smarter than you ?
Insert profound nonsense here
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Re: Government Trappers
[Re: Jtrapper]
#6955574
08/05/20 09:42 PM
08/05/20 09:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,082 Coldspring Texas
Savell
"Wilbur"
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"Wilbur"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,082
Coldspring Texas
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Thanks for that thoughtful contribution. ..... you know where to find me if you ever need anymore tips partner
Insert profound nonsense here
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