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Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956281
08/06/20 03:58 PM
08/06/20 03:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,279
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
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charles  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,279
Asheville, NC
The Governor of Ohio tested positive today. Maybe he just is over tested. You tell me.

Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: charles] #6956306
08/06/20 04:22 PM
08/06/20 04:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,085
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,085
Central Oregon
Originally Posted by charles
The Governor of Ohio tested positive today. Maybe he just is over tested. You tell me.

Maybe he just wants time to himself ... grin


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Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956326
08/06/20 04:46 PM
08/06/20 04:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,445
n.e, iowa
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coonman220 Offline
trapper
coonman220  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,445
n.e, iowa
Supposed be 2 ppl I heard today that are positive for covid. At work, that not seen since call back a few wks ago, I thought they quit, no idea if true or not

Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956334
08/06/20 04:53 PM
08/06/20 04:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,085
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,085
Central Oregon
Welcome back , coonman


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Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956422
08/06/20 06:17 PM
08/06/20 06:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,890
NC
B
bowhunter27295 Offline
trapper
bowhunter27295  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,890
NC
These are two factual occurrences that I know of personally.

1. Daycare worker in infant room at our church had to have a minor surgery. She had to get tested before she could have the surgery. Test came back positive. She felt absolutely nothing. Totally asymptomatic. She needed the surgery. Health dept shut down the infant room for 4 days. She requested a retest. Test was negative. Had to get a second true negative to negate a false positive. Second test was negative. She had ZERO symptoms before first test showing positive. Was this positive removed from the numbers?

2. Coworker has couple friends whose child was stillborn. Cause of death on death certificate? Covid 19. No way to get a double negative to disprove the positive. Mother was negative. Parents were LIVID!!

That is only two from little old me.

Some of the claims may be hoaxes. Some of them are true. With the amount of money hospitals get for one positive covid case and/or death, who wouldn't think there is some corruption.

From the USA Today Fact check:

We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.


This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.

Our fact-check sources

The Spectator: "Hospitals get more to list patients as COVID-19 and three times as much if the patient goes on ventilator"
The World Net Daily: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
Snopes: "Is Medicare paying hospitals $13K for patients diagnosed with COVID-19, $39K for those on ventilators
PolitiFact: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
Kaiser Health News: "Estimated cost for treating the uninsured hospitalized with COVID-19"
Factcheck.org: "Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count"
Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services: "Guidance for Certifying Death Due to COVID-19"
Verywellhealth.com: "How a DRG determines how much a hospital gets paid"
American Hospital Association Special Bulletin
American Hospital Association special bulletin.
Email response from Marty Makary, a surgeon and professor of health policy and management at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Thank you for supporting our journalism. You can subscribe to our print edition, ad-free app or electronic newspaper replica here.


The world is full of sheep and wolves.

Be the sheepdog.
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956424
08/06/20 06:23 PM
08/06/20 06:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,890
NC
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bowhunter27295 Offline
trapper
bowhunter27295  Offline
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B

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,890
NC
So hospitals receive 5k for pneumonia or 39K for covid on a ventilator.

You do the math.


The world is full of sheep and wolves.

Be the sheepdog.
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: bowhunter27295] #6956468
08/06/20 07:24 PM
08/06/20 07:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,136
Rock Springs, WI
Z
Zim Offline
trapper
Zim  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,136
Rock Springs, WI
As Mark Twain said "there are 3 kinds of lies.
Lies, dam lies, and statistics."

Zim

Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956471
08/06/20 07:27 PM
08/06/20 07:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 1
NC
Jerry Lee Offline
trapper
Jerry Lee  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 1
NC
Not sure about that, but one thing I know for sure is there are alot of false positives that are counted. I am a correctional officer in NC at a processing camp. Every new arrival is tested and you wouldn't believe the amount of positive tests. The inmates are placed in segregation only to be let out a couple days later after they test negative. I would not hesitate to bet that this happens in 3 out of every 10 tests. We have only had 9 confirmed cases at our facility, staff and inmates combined. Keep in mind that we process apx 600 inmates every 3 weeks and ship throughout the state. So from what I have seen the numbers are "SKEWED" dramatically, as I am sure the false pos are not taken out of the count as medical staff have to report nightly. Just my observations....

Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956545
08/06/20 08:26 PM
08/06/20 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Online content
trapper
Dirt  Online Content
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
"We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases."

I'm lost. Hospitals get paid more than what?
confused


Who is John Galt?
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956547
08/06/20 08:28 PM
08/06/20 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,835
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,835
Marion Kansas
more than they if it wasn't covid. Now your found. Lol

Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956557
08/06/20 08:35 PM
08/06/20 08:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Online content
trapper
Dirt  Online Content
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
I see. If it is lung cancer they get less. smile


Who is John Galt?
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956561
08/06/20 08:40 PM
08/06/20 08:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,074
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
WadeRyan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,074
Nebraska
Dirt, hospital billing is a mess and I won't even try to dive into the different rates, charges, etc. That being said you can simply be charged differently for a hospital stay whether a physician admits you as "Observation" or "Inpatient." It's not much of a stretch to add a Covid- ICD 10 code for a little extra charge.


Follow me on YouTube if youíre bored

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ulx1woYMmCN3IPLB0wwFw


Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956562
08/06/20 08:41 PM
08/06/20 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 62
Republic of CO
Cootswatter Offline
trapper
Cootswatter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 62
Republic of CO
My sister runs a nursing home and they have to test all staff every week. 2 weeks ago the person that does the test screwed up and accidentally sent in 3 test that were never used. Meaning they never swabbed anything. All three came back positive.


"I've come to chew bubble gum and to kick ars, and I'm all out of bubble gum." - Rowdy Roddy Piper - They Live
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6956564
08/06/20 08:44 PM
08/06/20 08:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,394
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Online content
trapper
Leftlane  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,394
The Hill Country of Texas
Pee on this Ima go read about magnetic fields of 330s


"Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children."
D. Trump
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Leftlane] #6956572
08/06/20 08:48 PM
08/06/20 08:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,074
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
WadeRyan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,074
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Leftlane
Pee on this Ima go read about magnetic fields of 330s

I've inquired about that on the trapping only thread. I'm waiting to see where I can go read more about it.


Follow me on YouTube if youíre bored

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ulx1woYMmCN3IPLB0wwFw


Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6957057
08/07/20 11:04 AM
08/07/20 11:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Online content
trapper
Dirt  Online Content
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
What Medicare pays

By Tom Kertscher, PolitiFact reporter

An article shared on Facebook questions whether the count of COVID-19 patients is inflated, saying hospitals have a financial incentive to claim that a patient has the virus.

"Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19 ó 3 times as much if put on ventilator," the storyís headline states.

The article was posted on WorldNetDaily, a conservative news website. It was produced by The Spectator, which describes itself as a conservative publication. The Spectator reported on comments made by Dr. Scott Jensen, a Minnesota physician and Republican state senator, in an interview with Fox News host Laura Ingraham.

Jensen said on Fox News that doctors are being encouraged to cite COVID-19 as a cause of death on death certificates and he suggested that money is a motivation.

Medicare has determined that a hospital gets paid $13,000 if a COVID-19 patient on Medicare is admitted and $39,000 if the patient goes on a ventilator, he claimed.

Jensen did not respond to our request for information.

The federal government has decided to pay hospitals more for treating COVID-19 patients. But it isnít a windfall in the way the headline suggests. And there is no indication that hospitals are over-identifying patients as having COVID-19. If anything, evidence suggests the illness is being underdiagnosed.

How Medicare pays hospitals

Medicare pays for inpatient hospital stays using a diagnosis-related group (DRG) payment system. The hospital assigns a code to a patient at the time of discharge, based mainly on the patientís main diagnosis and treatment given.

Medicare then pays the hospital a prescribed amount of money ó regardless of what it actually cost the hospital to provide the care. The amount can vary in different parts of the country to account for labor costs and other factors.

The amounts

The dollar amounts Jensen cited are roughly what we found in an analysis published April 7 by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a leading source of health information. (Kaiser Health News, which partners with PolitiFact on health fact-checking, is an editorially independent program of the foundation.)

There isnít a Medicare diagnostic code specifically for COVID-19. Using payment rates for similar respiratory conditions, Kaiser estimated the average Medicare payment at $13,297 for a less severe hospitalization and $40,218 for hospitalization in which a patient is treated with a ventilator for at least 96 hours.

"A COVID patient on a ventilator will need more services and more complicated services, not just the ventilator," said Joseph Antos, scholar in health care at the American Enterprise Institute. "It is reasonable that a patient who is on a ventilator would cost three times one who isn't that sick."

Medicare will pay hospitals a 20% "add-on" to the regular DRG payment for COVID-19 patients. Thatís a result of the CARES Act, the largest of the three federal stimulus laws enacted in response to the coronavirus, which was signed into law March 27.

"This is no scandal," Antos said. "The 20% was added by Congress because hospitals have lost revenue from routine care and elective surgeries that they can't provide during this crisis, and because the cost of providing even routine services to COVID patients has jumped."

Last edited by Dirt; 08/07/20 11:10 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6957063
08/07/20 11:19 AM
08/07/20 11:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,615
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,615
pa
Ohio gov. now tests negative.

This is a common problem.

Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: bowhunter27295] #6957077
08/07/20 11:40 AM
08/07/20 11:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Online content
trapper
Dirt  Online Content
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,796
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
So hospitals receive 5k for pneumonia or 39K for covid on a ventilator.

You do the math.


"Compare Medical billing costs for Pneumonia (Simple Pneumonia & Pleurisy With Major Complications) in U.S. Hospitals

CMS.gov released billing data from 2575 hospitals for "Pneumonia (Simple Pneumonia & Pleurisy With Major Complications)" in 2011 . The average medical billing charge was $37,408.93 and the average medicare reimbursement was $10,053.70."

"Roughly 15% of people infected by the coronavirus could require hospitalization, and a small share require invasive mechanical ventilation. The cost of these admissions will vary by severity and payer. In an earlier analysis, we estimate that, among people insured through a large employerís private health plan, hospitalization for pneumonia ranged from an average of $9,763 to $20,292 in 2018 depending on severity and comorbidities associated with the condition. However, patients who need to be put on a ventilator would have much higher costs. In 2018, ventilation treatment for respiratory conditions ranged from $34,223 to $88,114 depending on the length of time ventilation is required, for patients in large employer plans. Treatment costs on a per patient basis for comparable admissions will be lower in Medicare and Medicaid, where providers are reimbursed at lower rates. For example, average hospital payments for pneumonia with major comorbidities or complications are $10,010 under Medicare, and hospitalizations for respiratory system infections requiring ventilator support are $40,218. Under the CARES Act, Medicare will pay a 20% premium for COVID-19 treatment, but per admission payment is still less than that for the same type of admission for people with private plans, on average."

Last edited by Dirt; 08/07/20 11:54 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6957097
08/07/20 12:10 PM
08/07/20 12:10 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,601
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,601
Southern Illinois
Don't worry the CDC is on top of the testing. If you believe that ask somebody with Lyme how accurate the testing is. Personally I think they could be spending time and money some other way than all the testing. There has been some thats been sick as dogs with it only to test negative. It seems to just be the nature of the beast and as long as you or I are not a statistic then it doesn't matter, lol.
One thing I have seen in the beginning was we only had 1 case, she worked at SIU University and she was kept at home. Then we had a girl at church came down with something in her chest and she tested positive then in a few days she remembered she had been sanding concrete with no mask. She tells her Dr. and they tested her 2 more times negative and let her go back to work. Both cases was on the county tally and the girl that had had the concrete dust was never taken off.

Then we went weeks with no other cases and then all of a sudden from another big hospital in an other county they brought in a 87 year old woman dying with it and on hospice. Our little hospital had an agreement with the other to help out each other. I assumed that since things were dying down that maybe they needed at least one patient so they could get in on the gravy train. Well she died here and never was counted. So I am thinking well she got counted somewhere else. Then my best buddy died from it at St. Louis and he has never showed up on the count here. So thats 2 that wasn't counted here.

Now we have 8 in our little hospital with it that is not from here. In the mean time the last week its gone like wildfire in the bank, grocery store and one church.

I guess when the vaccine comes out I will be first in line provided I can get it without the chip which is another prefabricated lie for dissension and thats the gospel, I guess!

Re: COVID Tests Skewed? [Re: Trapper7] #6957111
08/07/20 12:37 PM
08/07/20 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,835
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,835
Marion Kansas
They cant even get the testing right but you will be the first in line for a vaccine?? Seems it would be easier to develop a test than a vaccine.

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