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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960536
08/10/20 10:38 PM
08/10/20 10:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,075
Southeast Idaho
F
Furvor Offline
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Furvor  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,075
Southeast Idaho
What the intruders are saying is "the end justifies the means." That doctrine is the basis of communism.

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960579
08/10/20 10:54 PM
08/10/20 10:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,106
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,106
Virginia
Hey Providence Farms, I care about your cows.
Swamp wolf said that he "could care less about your cows." which means he must care about them a little bit. If not, he would have stated, "I couldn't care less about your cows."
Your cows will understand.

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960656
08/10/20 11:41 PM
08/10/20 11:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 178
Central Wisconsin
C
cwtrapper Offline
trapper
cwtrapper  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 178
Central Wisconsin
A couple years back someone was flying a drone around my property. I'm sure they say me with the shotgun and took off. If it would have been in range it would have come down. Same would be with a camera. Or anyone sneakin around my place.

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: Cragar] #6960677
08/11/20 02:01 AM
08/11/20 02:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 746
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 746
Indiana
Originally Posted by Cragar
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
I didnt say anything about the "greater" good. I said the public go9od as held in public trust for the people. If we as hunters, trappers, etc. dont support the best wildlife conservation system on Earth to ensure we maintain sustainable populations of wildlife then who will? This has nothing to do with socialism.

I could care less about your cows.


Swamp Wolf , I doubt many would chastise you for enforcing game laws. It's a good thing , game laws preserves game which we all want , more game.
I think most are concerned about overreach , not seeking out and capturing poachers.


BIG difference , imo.


This is it in a nut shell. I am a big supporter of conservation and never had a bad experience with a conservation officer but If someone breaks a game law to feed their kids I care less about it. Now when someone shoots a good buck legally cuts off the rack and leaves the rest to rot in a ditch it makes my quite angry. Yet one is legal yet morally wrong the other illegal yet not right but not wrong either.

I shoot a opossum a few weeks back that was eating my cantaloupe in the garden. By law I should have reported it to the state within 24 hrs. I just tossed it out and didn't call. Same with the last several problem coons. Guess I'm a criminal.

The cows were just pointing out the State claims ownership of the deer but not the damages caused by them. Whether that's vehicle collision or crop damage. I bet you would darn sure care about my black cow when it's in the road in front of you at night when your driving 60mph. Infact you could sue me if you lived. Yet the state is not responsible for their deer I have hit or the one my wifes aunt hit on her motorcycle. She died. Double standards.

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960679
08/11/20 02:17 AM
08/11/20 02:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,388
AK
A
ApocalypticGoatH Offline
trapper
ApocalypticGoatH  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,388
AK
Somehow they managed to enforce game laws prior to game cameras. No need to violate any private property owners expectation of privacy. A hand thrower and a clay pigeon should take care of the problem. Let them prove it was intentional.


If I'm going to drink Kool Aid It's going to be the flavor I choose.

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960680
08/11/20 02:39 AM
08/11/20 02:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,284
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Online content
trapper
danny clifton  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,284
williamsburg ks
The only reason anyone in government is interested in wildlife is money.

Wardens may (at least most of them) believe in what they are doing to preserve the natural world. Politicians see only dollars. Politicians spend more time trying to expand their authority and power than they do anything else, with the possible exception of getting more money from constituents.

Judges want to make politicians happy. If you want a judicial appointment you need to make sure the person doing the appointing is happy with your politics/decisions


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960683
08/11/20 04:09 AM
08/11/20 04:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 516
MI.
F
Feedinggrounds Offline
trapper
Feedinggrounds  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 516
MI.
Originally Posted by warrior
I'm not afraid of men of character like Swamp Wolf exercising the authority to surveil.

However the likes of Comey, Obama, et al scares the living hades out of me.

Like was said most states have to much land and to few wardens for me to worry about it. But again there's always.....

I also fully understand the why wardens have free access BUT those laws and the severe taboo placed on "poaching" were enacted in a time of zealous over protection of wildlife with the goal of restoring lost populations of wildlife. I think we can all agree that save for a handful of unique species american wildlife has rebounded to the point of over abundance in many areas.

Perchance it's time to rethink some things and reestablish some boundaries.
I agree
200% go ahead and survey my land with video. I also think tight regulations and public reporting after the fact. Make non criminal non charged, camera placement public record after the fact. Id those agencies and officers involved. Could even require landowner access to pictures and video. Like a cops body cam footage. The officers and agencies have nothing to hide, right???


your only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: Swamp Wolf] #6960684
08/11/20 04:17 AM
08/11/20 04:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 516
MI.
F
Feedinggrounds Offline
trapper
Feedinggrounds  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 516
MI.
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
I didnt say anything about the "greater" good. I said the public good as held in public trust for the people. If we as hunters, trappers, etc. dont support the best wildlife conservation system on Earth to ensure we maintain sustainable populations of wildlife then who will? This has nothing to do with socialism.

I could care less about your cows.
Careful the slippery slope you tread, it may be ok and legal per say now. All that is really needed to stop this practice is, a aware public and angry bunch of voters. A politician will do, say, or change stance on any topic at all, when it comes down to keeping their job.


your only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: Feedinggrounds] #6960690
08/11/20 04:55 AM
08/11/20 04:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 746
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 746
Indiana
Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
I didnt say anything about the "greater" good. I said the public good as held in public trust for the people. If we as hunters, trappers, etc. dont support the best wildlife conservation system on Earth to ensure we maintain sustainable populations of wildlife then who will? This has nothing to do with socialism.

I could care less about your cows.
Careful the slippery slope you tread, it may be ok and legal per say now. All that is really needed to stop this practice is, a aware public and angry bunch of voters. A politician will do, say, or change stance on any topic at all, when it comes down to keeping their job.



When have we ever seen a politician throw law enforcement under the bus?

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960692
08/11/20 05:16 AM
08/11/20 05:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 516
MI.
F
Feedinggrounds Offline
trapper
Feedinggrounds  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 516
MI.
Providence Farm, I don't call it throwing law enforcement under a bus....What bus? More like switching on a light in a dimly lit or dark area...What do I have to hide?? What does law enforcement have to hide?? If I, or Law enforcement have nothing to hide, what is the problem? No bus to throw anyone under.


your only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960733
08/11/20 07:05 AM
08/11/20 07:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 661
Southern NJ
maintenanceguy Offline
trapper
maintenanceguy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 661
Southern NJ
What's more egregious?

1) Killing a deer out of season
2)The government violating individual property rights?


-Ryan
Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: Feedinggrounds] #6960741
08/11/20 07:15 AM
08/11/20 07:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 746
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 746
Indiana
Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
Providence Farm, I don't call it throwing law enforcement under a bus....What bus? More like switching on a light in a dimly lit or dark area...What do I have to hide?? What does law enforcement have to hide?? If I, or Law enforcement have nothing to hide, what is the problem? No bus to throw anyone under.


I was referring to current events. Democrats wanting to defund the police, prosecute them, and not allow them to do their job.

The guy in the cop shooting thread wasn't doing anything wrong and had nothing to hide. You can clearly see how well that worked out for him.

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960743
08/11/20 07:21 AM
08/11/20 07:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,284
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Online content
trapper
danny clifton  Online Content
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,284
williamsburg ks
Wonder what crime you would be committing if you zip tied their camera to a coyote and turned it loose? Wonder if they could find it before the gps tracker battery goes dead?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960744
08/11/20 07:26 AM
08/11/20 07:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,351
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,351
La Vernia & Dallas TX
I would imagine that Boss Man is logging all the key strokes from all the folks on this site.


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host - 2021 is booked



Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: maintenanceguy] #6960751
08/11/20 07:35 AM
08/11/20 07:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 302
midland, michigan
M
midlander Offline
trapper
midlander  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 302
midland, michigan
Originally Posted by maintenanceguy
What's more egregious?

1) Killing a deer out of season
2)The government violating individual property rights?


What property rights? You dont even own your land outright as someone pointed out in a thread some months back. If you dont beleive , just stop paying your rental fees (taxes) and see how long your name stays on the property

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: maintenanceguy] #6960761
08/11/20 07:56 AM
08/11/20 07:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,786
Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29 Offline
trapper
Kart29  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,786
Hancock Co., Indiana
Originally Posted by maintenanceguy
What's more egregious?

1) Killing a deer out of season
2)The government violating individual property rights?



Aren't they one and the same? Only difference I see is who is doing the violating.

Something tells me the two characters in this story are a couple of redneck flea bags with a history of problems with the law - a couple of dumb, toothless hilljacks that think just because they own 136 acres they can do whatever they want with the wildlife on it. I suspect there was ample evidence to justify surveillance of these poachers. And if they were doing something wrong, I hope they get nailed to the wall for it.

Of course, I could also be wrong about them. crazy


What from Christ that soul can sever,
Bound by everlasting bands?
None shall take thee
From the Strength of Israel's hands.

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: Kart29] #6960764
08/11/20 07:58 AM
08/11/20 07:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 302
midland, michigan
M
midlander Offline
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midlander  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 302
midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Kart29
Originally Posted by maintenanceguy
What's more egregious?

1) Killing a deer out of season
2)The government violating individual property rights?



Aren't they one and the same? Only difference I see is who is doing the violating.

Something tells me the two characters in this story are a couple of redneck flea bags with a history of problems with the law - a couple of dumb, toothless hilljacks that think just because they own 136 acres they can do whatever they want with the wildlife on it. I suspect there was ample evidence to justify surveillance of these poachers. And if they were doing something wrong, I hope they get nailed to the wall for it.

^^^^x2

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: Kart29] #6960837
08/11/20 08:55 AM
08/11/20 08:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,275
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,275
Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted by Kart29
Originally Posted by maintenanceguy
What's more egregious?

1) Killing a deer out of season
2)The government violating individual property rights?



Aren't they one and the same? Only difference I see is who is doing the violating.

Something tells me the two characters in this story are a couple of redneck flea bags with a history of problems with the law - a couple of dumb, toothless hilljacks that think just because they own 136 acres they can do whatever they want with the wildlife on it. I suspect there was ample evidence to justify surveillance of these poachers. And if they were doing something wrong, I hope they get nailed to the wall for it.

Of course, I could also be wrong about them. crazy


It doesn't sound like you read the article at all, Kart. I know it's a long read, but worth the effort, IMHO.


Now officially an old fart
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Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960901
08/11/20 09:55 AM
08/11/20 09:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,634
South Ga - Almost Florida
S
Swamp Wolf Offline
trapper
Swamp Wolf  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,634
South Ga - Almost Florida
I read the article....one had been charged with baiting doves and the other's son had been charged with same thing. The article was written from the landowner's viewpoint so there may be more.

Now illegal dove hunting may not be a big issue with many but if you're a dove hunter and your place is near these guys would you want them to practice more ethical and legal ways of dove hunting? Maybe so its fair to all...so to speak.

TWRA or USFWS was likley trying to determine who does the baiting. Cause if they wanted to get them again for hunting doves over bait then just wait nearby until the shooting starts and walk in to property and handle business.

Use of cameras by GWs is not random.


Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 08/11/20 09:56 AM. Reason: More info

Thank God For Your Blessings!

Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine [Re: warrior] #6960971
08/11/20 11:29 AM
08/11/20 11:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 320
Bismarck Arkansas
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Arkansas87 Offline
trapper
Arkansas87  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 320
Bismarck Arkansas
^^that is true about the dove baiting. Makes it hard when the neighbor down the road has 500 pounds of sunflower seeds poured out all over the ground.that being said, I think they should just let everyone bait and just enforce the bag limmits. What does it matter if it takes me an hour to kill a limit or half a day. 15 birds is 15 birds. That would get rid of all the confusion on dove baiting because alot of the laws on it are very confusing. And people can get huge tickets over misunderstandings. Just my opinion

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