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What has become of conservation? #6974450
08/26/20 01:26 PM
08/26/20 01:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 820
Ohio, USA
Ave Offline OP
trapper
Ave  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 820
Ohio, USA
Hey guys. What has become of conservation and wildlife management? A lot of my outdoor classes are left leaning, and conservation seems to be more anti hunting, trapping, logging, etc. We as trappers and hunters know that the outdoors need to be managed. People are being taught that the key to healthy ecosystems is to do absolutely nothing. Conservation used to be defined by managing the outdoors, and now it seems to be by leaving the outdoors alone. If it was up to a lot of the so called experts, there would be no hunting, fishing, trapping, logging, etc. I see a lot of important people in our dnr and other outdoor related programs that seem to have no clue what the real outdoors are like. I know that a lot of it is due to liberals, but how long has this been going on? How did we get from where we were, to where we are now?


Ave don't go where the beaver don't flow
Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974453
08/26/20 01:31 PM
08/26/20 01:31 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,976
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Offline
trapper
KeithC  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,976
Champaign County, Ohio.
Petaphiles have invaded conservation, the pet trade and agriculture.

Keith

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974459
08/26/20 01:38 PM
08/26/20 01:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,885
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
Hodagtrapper Offline
Muskrat Master
Hodagtrapper  Offline
Muskrat Master

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,885
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
Back in the 60's and 70's a lot of the public school teachers used to hunt, fish and a few even trapped. I remember talking hunting with quite a few teachers and even had a high school teacher come out to my pick up truck to handle my Wingmaster shotgun. Today we would both be going to jail! Indoctrination from the left leaning media and our public schools could be an answer to your question. Not 100% though as there are other factors too.

Chris


>>In God we trust<<
Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974473
08/26/20 01:48 PM
08/26/20 01:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Online happy
trapper
SNIPERB🦝  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
Postmodernism confusion of language. Used to be these types were called preservationists.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974511
08/26/20 02:37 PM
08/26/20 02:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,884
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,884
Eastern Shore of Maryland
You let a bunch of whackos take it over. lol


-Goofy-
Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Hodagtrapper] #6974551
08/26/20 03:43 PM
08/26/20 03:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,171
Three Lakes,WI 69
C
corky Offline
trapper
corky  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,171
Three Lakes,WI 69
Originally Posted by Hodagtrapper
Back in the 60's and 70's a lot of the public school teachers used to hunt, fish and a few even trapped. I remember talking hunting with quite a few teachers and even had a high school teacher come out to my pick up truck to handle my Wingmaster shotgun. Today we would both be going to jail! Indoctrination from the left leaning media and our public schools could be an answer to your question. Not 100% though as there are other factors too.

Chris

x2

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974557
08/26/20 03:52 PM
08/26/20 03:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,257
Kenai AK
K
KenaiKid Online content
trapper
KenaiKid  Online Content
trapper
K

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,257
Kenai AK
Some might call me over-religious, but I believe every failing in society can be traced to the abandonment of faith. The direction of the world, society, families etc comes down to humanism vs deism (and the different deisms, but that's another topic.) Everyone worships something. Those who claim to worship nothing end up worshiping either themselves, humanity, a worldly higher power such as government, or something they deify like nature. Nature worshippers in the West are no different than the ones in Africa, they just use fancier words. Its simple animism.

The Bible says humans were created to rule, steward and dominate the earth (have dominion). To a Biblical mind, even though nature may look big and powerful and awe-inspiring, we know what we have both a right and a mandate to rule it.
When an atheist rejects the word of God, they also reject the divine authority given to men by God. Funny how humanism ends up making humans out to be weaker instead of greater. When you don't believe in divine rights or authority, you simply make everything out to be greater if it appears greater. Atheists typically believe men should serve nature, the government and society because those things appear greater. It was specifically because of their faith that our founding fathers and great conservationists believed the opposite: that we have a divine right to rule ourselves, our government, society and nature.

So that explains the theological roots. Now in the political realm, it's all part of the nefarious tactic of undermining human confidence, identity and rights. Telling people to feel guilty for disturbing nature is no different than telling them to feel guilty for being white, or having money. If you can make people feel guilty and undermine their identity, you can tell them what to do and lead them like sheep. That's just a part of the political strategy of earth worship. The other part is reducing self-reliance and economic independence.


Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Boco couldn't catch a cold.

But if he did, it would be Top Lot.
Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974566
08/26/20 04:13 PM
08/26/20 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 948
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
T
turkn8rtrapper Offline
trapper
turkn8rtrapper  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 948
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
The liberals have taken over higher education in most cases. Guess where most of the anti's were educated and by who. The biologist and such were taught left leaning thought processes. A lot of today's youth have no experience with nature or the outdoors except Disney and the media mostly Social media. When they grow up and seek employment in conservation that's what you get. We are pretty lucky in Mississippi as our commission is appointed and and sportsmen and women still have a strong voice here.


"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974568
08/26/20 04:15 PM
08/26/20 04:15 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
P
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"
pcr2  Offline
"Twerker"
P

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
umm,khaki's









Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: KenaiKid] #6974571
08/26/20 04:23 PM
08/26/20 04:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,727
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,727
Georgia
Originally Posted by KenaiKid
Some might call me over-religious, but I believe every failing in society can be traced to the abandonment of faith. The direction of the world, society, families etc comes down to humanism vs deism (and the different deisms, but that's another topic.) Everyone worships something. Those who claim to worship nothing end up worshiping either themselves, humanity, a worldly higher power such as government, or something they deify like nature. Nature worshippers in the West are no different than the ones in Africa, they just use fancier words. Its simple animism.

The Bible says humans were created to rule, steward and dominate the earth (have dominion). To a Biblical mind, even though nature may look big and powerful and awe-inspiring, we know what we have both a right and a mandate to rule it.
When an atheist rejects the word of God, they also reject the divine authority given to men by God. Funny how humanism ends up making humans out to be weaker instead of greater. When you don't believe in divine rights or authority, you simply make everything out to be greater if it appears greater. Atheists typically believe men should serve nature, the government and society because those things appear greater. It was specifically because of their faith that our founding fathers and great conservationists believed the opposite: that we have a divine right to rule ourselves, our government, society and nature.

So that explains the theological roots. Now in the political realm, it's all part of the nefarious tactic of undermining human confidence, identity and rights. Telling people to feel guilty for disturbing nature is no different than telling them to feel guilty for being white, or having money. If you can make people feel guilty and undermine their identity, you can tell them what to do and lead them like sheep. That's just a part of the political strategy of earth worship. The other part is reducing self-reliance and economic independence.


^^^^
This is it exactly. While we can say the left has fully infiltrated western culture and classical education it is at it's roots an ancient battle from the beginning of time when the lie "ye shall be like gods" was first uttered.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974575
08/26/20 04:26 PM
08/26/20 04:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,666
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Online happy
trapper
DelawareRob  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,666
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Yíall must have different state biologists than I do. Most of the ones in my state that deal with Fish & Wildlife hunt and fish, some even trap. Iím good friends with a few and they seem to be decent.

I hope yíall get some better people.

#huntersareconservationists


You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974579
08/26/20 04:30 PM
08/26/20 04:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Online happy
trapper
SNIPERB🦝  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
In Ohio, you cant confuse the ODNR with the Division of Wildlife. Wildlife is basically a red headed stepchild to ODNR. Two different cultures.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: SNIPERB🦝] #6974581
08/26/20 04:32 PM
08/26/20 04:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,666
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Online happy
trapper
DelawareRob  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,666
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Originally Posted by SNIPERB&#129437;
In Ohio, you cant confuse the ODNR with the Division of Wildlife. Wildlife is basically a red headed stepchild to ODNR. Two different cultures.


Oh ok, makes sense. Itís the same here with different cultures between most of DNREC and F&W

We have the DNREC= department of natural resources and environmental control.

Fish & Wildlife is a section within that department.



You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: DelawareRob] #6974587
08/26/20 04:41 PM
08/26/20 04:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Online happy
trapper
SNIPERB🦝  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by DelawareRob
Originally Posted by SNIPERB&#129437;
In Ohio, you cant confuse the ODNR with the Division of Wildlife. Wildlife is basically a red headed stepchild to ODNR. Two different cultures.


Oh ok, makes sense. Itís the same here with different cultures between most of DNREC and F&W

We have the DNREC= department of natural resources and environmental control.

Fish & Wildlife is a section within that department.



Same thing here, Division of Wildlife is part of ODNR. But its semi-independent agency as its finances comes from the sportsman and PR funds. Most of the DoW employees have some background in hunting/fishing.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974592
08/26/20 04:56 PM
08/26/20 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 473
NE NE
W
Wife Offline
trapper
Wife  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 473
NE NE
Ave, The term CONSERVATION has been High-jacked by a lot hugger groups and substituted for the word PRESERVATION. I've talked to every one who is associated with this in the "teaching" media that I can ( Bob Noonan, Jim Spencer, Local paper, school groups etc etc. ) and tell them we as a group are not on the right page when one of these hugger groups uses that word in their "preservationist presentations". When testifying in front of a committee and its our turn I recommend people use the definition of "Wise Use" for the term Conservation even if you have to back-up and refute the other side's Name. Get the same page up. When you can get that across to the decision makers, the public, (or the news paper-TV folks) you have a good basis for the terms Sustainability, Management, Monetary Value etc. etc.. Usually your opponent will balk and not acknowledge the big difference. There are 3 facets of Wildlife Interaction with humans that society must deal with... The Biological side, the Economical side, and the Emotional side (anyone at the Minn Trappers Convention in '84 heard me harp on this when I gave my speal way back then). The groups on TV, news paper, and radio that are protectionist based only want folks to believe in the Emotional side and (again) High-jacked the term Conservation due to it sounding more applicable to their agenda in today's society. Part of it falls on us, the consumptive users of a resource, not to demand the definition of the word whenever we square off in a conversation is showing our weakness. My thoughts are always examining the definitions that our side can bring to the table for an equitable discussion and then let the facts come out.............................. off my horse........................ the mike.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974660
08/26/20 05:55 PM
08/26/20 05:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 335
MO
T
trap master Offline
trapper
trap master  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 335
MO
I've been sayin this for awhile now. The conservation agents and especially the higher ups that make management decisions are not hunters, fisherman or trappers. They just college educated pawns. They learned about it in a classroom but have no experience off the pavement. It really is something that should concern all outdoorsman.
A couple years ago I had a Quail Forever biologist come to my place and we took a tour so i could show him some habitat work i had done and get his professional advice. During the course of the conversation he says " I'd like to hunt quail someday" Guy is a QF biologist and tells people how and what to do and has never even hunted a quail... it just aint right.
If you dont know, the director of the USFWS is an african american woman. I'd bet my farm she has never been hunting and couldnt tell the difference between coilspring and a conibear. These people should have knowledge and hands on experience to be in these positions. Bottom line is fellas we're losing the long game....

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974667
08/26/20 05:58 PM
08/26/20 05:58 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 848
Saskatchewan
R
rvsask Offline
trapper
rvsask  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 848
Saskatchewan
I am perplexed by some of the posts and can see it as regional as Delewarerob sees things like me when it comes to biologists etc.
Make fun of Canada all you want but Iím a teacher who runs a trapping club and has butchered an entire deer in class for Practical arts.
Iíve since switched schools to where both deer and beaver have been skinned on stage in front of a full auditorium.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: rvsask] #6974690
08/26/20 06:26 PM
08/26/20 06:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 23
PA
W
wrestlecoach Offline
trapper
wrestlecoach  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 23
PA
Worked for the US Forest service in the panhandle of Idaho in the mid 80's. There was about a 50/50 mix in the regional office between new age treehuggers (don't cut anything) and old school slash and burners (clear cut everything). I felt like i was in the middle (conservationist?). By the mid 90's that office was probably 90% tree huggers. Wolves took over, elk population dropped, mills closed. Lots of east coast women were hired as foresters

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: Ave] #6974713
08/26/20 06:53 PM
08/26/20 06:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Online happy
trapper
SNIPERB🦝  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,474
Rodney,Ohio
It drives me crazy reading stories about almost anything having to do with wildlife and when they say "conservation groups are worried..." I dread scrolling down to find its something like Sierra Club, Defenders of Wildlife, or PETA. Its never NTA, Rocky Mountain Elk, Sportsman's Alliance, etc.

Re: What has become of conservation? [Re: wrestlecoach] #6974730
08/26/20 07:07 PM
08/26/20 07:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,942
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,942
East-Central Wisconsin
Conservation is still conservation in my mind, what has taken place over time is environmentalism has gained a lot of traction. One is now use conservation is wise use. There are still very practical colleges that have good under grad and master degree programs in wildlife management such as UW Stevens Point, SD state and many others. There is still a lot of course work in population dynamics and habit studies etc. Also if you are in a wildlife program take a few forestry courses or land use or Ag courses to broaden ones base on conservation practices that are green and productive. The fact that a lot of habitat is being lost probably drives the environmental movement a lot. Conservation will help establish the best uses with what we have now and how to best utilize the resource in the future. We don't have enough time or money to restore our landscape to the pre-settlement time, so we need to focus on managing the best we can with what we have and what we are willing to invest resources in. I am so very glad I had professors who were all grad students of Aldo Leopold and they instilled the conservation message in me. I also took geography, geology, soils, forestry and many ag courses to round out a natural resource degree. What a lot of environmentalists don't realize or like to admit is that manage a resource, say land and doing the BMPs for that land will optimize the biomass of that land area be it flora or fauna and that is something we need to address as we add a couple hundred million citizens to the world every year.

Bryce

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