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Has an optimum BG trigger pattern for coon ever been established? The one's I'm familiar with are as follows.....
Outside of elevated traps in barns, we are limited to 5 x 5 BG's that I might use on coon. Past few weeks, I have been setting test traps in the barn with the 5 x 5's in boxes trying to decide if they are workable. So far, I've caught and killed every coon that tried it, but with less than optimum strikes. And a part of that is what shows up to be trapped. Still getting family groups with sows and this year's kits. Mostly catching the kits....which are running about 10 pounds. Measured heads on a couple of those and distance outside the ears around 3 1/2 inches.....so traps are big enough for those. Probably the ideal size for them. But that big boar that I see now and then on video......I'd worry about him.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6977532 08/29/2002:55 PM08/29/2002:55 PM
Pans or bell shaped trigger made from xtra long trigger wires from Southeastern Outdoors...whose catalog sposd to already be on yer desk. ...if Your local mentor has done their job.
www.sevenoakstrappingsupplies.com for trap mods and gear The 10 Commandments are not suggestions. Buy a soldiers meal EVERY chance you can.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6977702 08/29/2006:55 PM08/29/2006:55 PM
Pan triggers are the ultimate for most species when using a box or cubby set. A wide open space with no cold metal wires in their face to deter them from entering the set. As well, when the trap is recessed deep into the box just in front of the bait the animal, while stable at the trap, with its neck through the jaws fires the trap with its chin while working the bait.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6977823 08/29/2008:34 PM08/29/2008:34 PM
I run 160s in boxes and trails, a few 220s. For the 160s I like the trigger on the bottom with the wires making a T. The T starts maybe 1/4" up from the trigger body. They hit it with their chin just like with a pan but I don't have to fool with the pan. Catch a few reds in those boxes too. With 220s in trails I again put the trigger on the bottom but spread the V fairly wide - 90% neck catches on coon.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6977986 08/29/2011:27 PM08/29/2011:27 PM
I use #2 with a slight bend inward on ends. I pick mink sometimes in my coon 160s and mine are set in blind trail sets along weedy ditches and fencerows, or weedy trails to coon dens. Pull some of the weeds around the trap and over it they push right through and gets em behind the ears everytime. I get few misses in blind sets.
Last edited by jabNE; 09/07/2010:14 AM.
Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you a trapping license and that's pretty close.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: AnthonyT]
#6978255 08/30/2010:36 AM08/30/2010:36 AM
I run 160s in boxes and trails, a few 220s. For the 160s I like the trigger on the bottom with the wires making a T. The T starts maybe 1/4" up from the trigger body. They hit it with their chin just like with a pan but I don't have to fool with the pan. Catch a few reds in those boxes too. With 220s in trails I again put the trigger on the bottom but spread the V fairly wide - 90% neck catches on coon.
I'm a visual learner......so in that light, I have expanded my original set of options. I am assuming your T is like option 7?
I also have some 160's and they are a substantial improvement over these 5 x 5 traps.......in almost every way. But the 5 x 5 is what we have to work with. I can see the low set T opens things up a lot....as does the short stubs in option 8. In both options. Would love to see how these work when a coon pokes his head in there. What hits what to cause trap to fire and when. Also have the option of reversing these to place trigger wires to the back.
Seems to me a coon has about same distance between base of snout.......where his face and head widens out.....to neck area behind the ears......as his head is wide. Implication being with a small coon, triggers on these 5 x 5 traps may need to be towards front or open side of box......and with big coon, to the back.....to get enough of his head in there to catch him where it counts.
I have also discovered that the CMT 5 x 5 I've been setting appears to have a 2 way trigger. I set triggers like #1, pushed triggers to side and up and nothing happened. So that trigger pattern may not work for this trap. The T might not either if one of the actions that fires the trap is pushing down on one side of the T.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6978276 08/30/2011:09 AM08/30/2011:09 AM
I run 220s in trail sets here and I put my triggers straight down and off to one side. Gives a big opening . A few small ones probably get through but that's a good thing!
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: SNIPERBBB]
#6978654 08/30/2008:24 PM08/30/2008:24 PM
The short trigger stubs fire when the back of the neck hump on the coon hits the trigger so hes fully committed when the trap fires.
That configuration is what he recommends in this video for trail sets. In boxes he said to put the trigger on top to the inside of the box and bend them almost straight back toward the bait. Got a dozen of them this year to try since we have the same limitation. Going to run boxes.
The trapper formerly known as sanfo008
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6978701 08/30/2009:21 PM08/30/2009:21 PM
The short trigger stubs fire when the back of the neck hump on the coon hits the trigger so hes fully committed when the trap fires.
That configuration is what he recommends in this video for trail sets. In boxes he said to put the trigger on top to the inside of the box and bend them almost straight back toward the bait. Got a dozen of them this year to try since we have the same limitation. Going to run boxes.
Again, I'm a visual learner, so took a stab a a sketch of what is being suggested.
Depending on size, seems to me a coon could get pretty deep into the trap before it fired. Caught one large kit in 120 Belisle with triggers set on bottom in a V and to the rear and suitcased it.....rear bars caught the neck, but fronts landed in the middle of it's back......and it struggled a couple minutes. But an adult coon might set it off going through. Thinking about where the front of the head would be when triggers like this were reached, vs. where it would be with short stubs....or any of the other configurations.
This is staring to look like bass fishing with an ultralight and 4# test line. Takes some finesse.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6979028 08/31/2010:59 AM08/31/2010:59 AM
how high is the front of the box jacked up? I found 1"-1.5" dia stick under the front gets em to hit the wires (on bottom) or pan pretty fast and consistent.
Are you blending the box in, like draping local debris over it, and a vine or 2 or grass over the trap itself?
www.sevenoakstrappingsupplies.com for trap mods and gear The 10 Commandments are not suggestions. Buy a soldiers meal EVERY chance you can.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6979321 08/31/2005:45 PM08/31/2005:45 PM
For now, these are test boxes in my barn.....not hidden as there is no need to. Coon are aggressive to the point of being obnoxious about it. At one point back in July, I documented as many as 15 in my barn per night. They have stripped entire fruit trees, riddled gardens, etc. For now I'm treating this as nuisance work for myself. So probably not going to be setting a lot of boxes or setting trails. But if things change with fur prices, the opportunity is there. Could probably catch 50+ within a mile of my house.
First adult I went after managed to get in the barn, then on top of my shop, found a small hole I didn't know was there, so got inside my enclosed shop. Tore up a lot of stuff, and even used a shelf I store some tools and trapping stuff on as a latrine......and soiled of all things......a pair of body grip setters. That was just begging for it. Not trusting the smaller traps, left a 220 in a square bucket inside the shop and got that one the third night. Front was elevated on a 2 x 4, trigger pattern #5......and she got halfway through trap before it fired. Suit case strike on neck and middle of the back. Took a while. A long while. (BTW, 220 was a tuned Belisle)
Last one was a 5 x 5 in a box....not elevated.......trigger #2......but V not wide enough. About a 10# kit that stopped at trap and grabbed triggers with a paw. Trap fired and caught it just in front of the ears. Took a while. (all catches caught on game cameras). What that indicated to me was refusal.....so need a more open pathway and trigger setup that fires the trap just about when their ears are below that front bar, so it will catch them behind the ears. These are powerful traps, so if you can get the strike right, they should turn the lights out no problem.
BTW, we can use 160's and even 220's, but they have to be set inside a building and at least 6 feet off the ground. That may also be doable with this rowdy bunch, but for now want to decide on using the 5 x 5''s so I can use them in more places than just a barn. Legally at least.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980076 09/01/2001:45 PM09/01/2001:45 PM
I can't see how a pan can be of any value when using a BG In a trail set. I just twist the trigger wires together and place them dead center In the trap opening on my 160s I use In my trail sets. I can't see how a pan would work for a coon box. The coons head will be 6" ahead of It's feet as It enters the box. I can see It working on small critters like mink and marten and fisher but not coon.
Tune the BG trigger and most of your problems go away.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980095 09/01/2002:00 PM09/01/2002:00 PM
From MDC regulations.......it seems they are not keen on using dry land body grips in MO........or snares either.
Conibear or Killing-type traps must comply with the following:
With a jaw spread greater than 5 inches, may be set underwater, but not in any dry land set With a jaw spread not greater than 8 inches, may be set 6 feet or more above ground level in buildings
I'm guessing main concern is with domestic pets...........and that may be a valid concern in many areas of the state.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980185 09/01/2004:15 PM09/01/2004:15 PM
I can't see how a pan can be of any value when using a BG In a trail set. I just twist the trigger wires together and place them dead center In the trap opening on my 160s I use In my trail sets. I can't see how a pan would work for a coon box. The coons head will be 6" ahead of It's feet as It enters the box. I can see It working on small critters like mink and marten and fisher but not coon.
I agree pan triggers are not for trail sets as the animal may often step/jump over them. A pan trigger set up when placed close to the bait relative to the target animal (coon) stance will obtain consistent catches. The objective is to position the animal stable within the jaws of the trap at the appropriate distance from the bait for the target species so you get a consistent humane neck/thorax strike. This occurs because they are stable at the bait with their neck through the trap jaws with a foot or jaw pressing down on the pan, depending on the height of the pan above the cubby or box floor, while working the bait. The animal is not traveling thru the trap jaws to get to the bait.
Last edited by bctomcat; 09/01/2004:58 PM.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980213 09/01/2005:02 PM09/01/2005:02 PM
Bctomcat is correct. Pans are the answer when using boxes in my opinion as well. I use belisle 220’s and pans, they always get struck behind the ears and 95% are dead in the box, trap never moved. With 160’s When mink are around I’ll use a pan or a V facing up. If just coon I’ll do the one going down the side and other going across the top
Bctomcat is correct. Pans are the answer when using boxes in my opinion as well. I use belisle 220’s and pans, they always get struck behind the ears and 95% are dead in the box, trap never moved. With 160’s When mink are around I’ll use a pan or a V facing up. If just coon I’ll do the one going down the side and other going across the top
Trigger for the pan to the rear with pan facing out? Or to the front, with pan facing in to bait? May not seem like a difference, but seems to me it could move strike location forward or back by nearly 2 inches? If so, that would matter.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980825 09/02/2010:38 AM09/02/2010:38 AM
Trigger for the pan to the rear with pan facing out? Or to the front, with pan facing in to bait? May not seem like a difference, but seems to me it could move strike location forward or back by nearly 2 inches? If so, that would matter.
In order to function properly a pan trigger must angle up about 20 degrees over the back-trap jaw with the trigger dog pointing to the box entrance. The trigger should be set up so it takes a bit of pressure to fire, no trigger waxing.
If set to level the pan may hang up on the box bottom and not release from the dog thus, requiring additional pressure to release and fire the trap.
Last edited by bctomcat; 09/02/2010:40 AM.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980856 09/02/2011:44 AM09/02/2011:44 AM
Yes the pan is toward the bait at the back of the box close to the bait appropriate for the target animals stance. You want the animal stable at the bait with its head and neck thru the jaws when it fires the trap with its feet or chin pressing the trigger down while it is working the bait.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980878 09/02/2012:10 PM09/02/2012:10 PM
When you set these 160's and 220's with pans......do you get single bar neck strikes or suit case them with double strikes?
I ask, as I've got dozens of game camera videos of coons going in and out of my buckets and boxes (no traps in them) and it seems to me they always stick their neck out far forward of where their feet are. Just watching the videos it looks like their neck would always be centered to past center when the trap would fire.
Perhaps that changes when the trap is set in the back near the bait and they are not longer traveling, but have stopped and are sniffing and reaching?
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980883 09/02/2012:14 PM09/02/2012:14 PM
BTW, going over the videos, found something I missed the first time. Two kits are in a bucket and having a nasty wrestling match that spills out of the bucket and continues for a bit. Then one goes back in for the prize........a tin can with about 1/4 cup dry cat food that had been laced with a sweet/smokey BBQ sauce (Show Me brand if it matters). Never did find the can. Later video revealed why.......coon put tin can it's mouth and left with it.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980896 09/02/2012:40 PM09/02/2012:40 PM
When you set these 160's and 220's with pans......do you get single bar neck strikes or suit case them with double strikes? Perhaps that changes when the trap is set in the back near the bait and they are not longer traveling, but have stopped and are sniffing and reaching?
It depends on the size of the animal and its stance at the trap. An example is marten and fisher with 120 pan trap. With the trap placed within 4-5" of the bait, for mink, marten and fisher you will get a consistent humane neck/thorax catch virtually every time. The reason being that they are stable at the bait and standing on the pan or bumping it with their head/neck while working the bait, not moving through the trap to get to the bait. Mink and marten, due to their size, will get a neck/thorax strike consistently as they will be committed further into the trap than the larger fisher. The fisher, at the 4=5 inch set back, will have its feet in front of the trap pan with only its neck thru the trap jaws when it fires the trap by pushing down on the pan with its chin while working the bait. Thus resulting in a neck strike to the base of the skull and neck.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980903 09/02/2012:48 PM09/02/2012:48 PM
I did not have coon in my area so do not know what set back from bait and trap height above ground/box bottom would be best. As iv'e said before it all depends on the target animals stance at the bait, and that's for you to determine thru experiment/experience with coon behavior.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6980924 09/02/2001:11 PM09/02/2001:11 PM
If you place your trap way back In the box your chances of a catch start to diminish. Keep the trap right In the opening. You don' want the coon trying to crawl Into the box. A pan on a 160 has no value In a 160 coon box. Tune your trigger so you have a minimum of trigger travel before the trap fires. This will give you a perfect hit right behind the ears. keep your trigger wires close together and keep them offset from center about 3". Have the trigger on top and on the back side of the trap.
The thing about coon boxes Is you want to make it as easy as you can for the coon to work the box. Look at It this way if you had to get down on your belly to get Into some small opening would you think twice about It? Same with a coon raise the front of the box up about 6" so the coon can stand In front of the box and stick It's head In . Screw a section of 2X6 to the bottom front edge of the box. Then drill a hole through the box near the back and shove your T bar stake through that and Into the ground. This will stabilize the box and give you something to tie off your BG.
There are a lot better and more productive coon sets then BG boxes but this will help you make the box a little more coon friendly.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6982610 09/04/2001:58 PM09/04/2001:58 PM
Keep the triggers tight together and just off set them a few inches one way or the other. Were only talking about a 5" opening. I know It works on wood chucks.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6984191 09/06/2003:07 PM09/06/2003:07 PM
No, the pan pointed toward the bait. it makes the difference between them being struck behind the ears instead of being struck at the base of the neck.
Last edited by scotiantrapper; 09/06/2003:11 PM.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987170 09/10/2011:31 AM09/10/2011:31 AM
Took several nights, but finally got a decent video of a coon working a 5 x 5 body grip in a box. Jaws were wired open, trigger wires straight down and to the right side on back jaw. Triggers were not hanging straight down for the coon as a possum got there first and cleaned out most of the bait....and left wires up in the air when it pulled out.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987200 09/10/2012:09 PM09/10/2012:09 PM
Coon don't work a box set like a marten or a fisher. You want them caught as soon as they stick their head In the box. Because most If not all coon aren't going to crawl very far Into a 5x5 opening to get the bait.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987290 09/10/2002:24 PM09/10/2002:24 PM
Then I would suggest using a shorter box, with a pan trigger trap, that will just accommodate the bait and trap, and the coon does not have to crawl into the box but just put its head thru the trap jaws to get to the bait.
Last edited by bctomcat; 09/10/2004:08 PM.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987392 09/10/2005:25 PM09/10/2005:25 PM
The only time I ever used pans on BG was when I was trapping rats. I made a holder so I could place the trap In the horizontal position. I cut some of that plastic corrugated stuff and slipped It on the triggers as a pan. The trap with the pan was placed about 1" under water. I had It staked with a 1x2 and the bait was placed about 8" above the trap.The rat would stand on that pan and It's next move was to the skinning shed. It was a rat killing system
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987435 09/10/2006:12 PM09/10/2006:12 PM
Sorry about the low quality of the video. Not sure why it came out reduced as it is? Anyway, had a chance to view the video enlarged and frame by frame in slow motion. As coon's head passes through trap, can't tell if the trigger moved forward or to the side. Of course with jaws wired open, trigger was loose and not set, so not a good test. But if movement is to the side, that would take a 4 way trigger to fire. Trap shown is only 2 way. Gonna keep this going with various triggers to see if there is refusal. May not be valid, as this coon is now comfortable going in for the bait. But others will show up soon. There are still 3 or 4 hanging around.
Also noted coon put it's entire head through before it moved it's feet, but have also observed if they can reach the bait, they will always fondle it with paws first.....so would stop to reach if bait is too close to the trap. And that coon was not the old boar that comes round now and then. Curious to see how his head fits or if he even tries it.
Also appears to me best position for strike behind the ears with this 5 x 5 is if the trigger wire is on the back or inside bar. Front bar might not have his head in far enough to hit behind the ears?
Last edited by HayDay; 09/10/2006:15 PM.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987513 09/10/2007:59 PM09/10/2007:59 PM
Try a pan trap on the front bar over the back bar. You may be very surprised with a strike behind the ears/skull. Look at the coons head movements with its head thru the trap pushing down where a pan trigger would be positioned.
Last edited by bctomcat; 09/10/2008:07 PM.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987706 09/11/2012:35 AM09/11/2012:35 AM
LOts of coon will reach In instead of sticking their head In to the opening. So placing the trap at the entrance and placing the bait closer to the trap will just get you more reach Ins. And catching a coon by the leg Is not fair to the coon.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6987710 09/11/2012:42 AM09/11/2012:42 AM
LOts of coon will reach In instead of sticking their head In to the opening. So placing the trap at the entrance and placing the bait closer to the trap will just get you more reach Ins. And catching a coon by the leg Is not fair to the coon.
OK, so what's a better set other than blind trail sets?
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6988068 09/11/2001:47 PM09/11/2001:47 PM
LOts of coon will reach In instead of sticking their head In to the opening. So placing the trap at the entrance and placing the bait closer to the trap will just get you more reach Ins. And catching a coon by the leg Is not fair to the coon.
OK, so what's a better set other than blind trail sets?
You asked the question.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6988340 09/11/2010:35 PM09/11/2010:35 PM
A 330 puts their lights out. Although I never set a 330 for coon,the ones I caught on crossovers when trapping nuisance beaver up south were poleaxed double struck.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6988375 09/12/2012:55 AM09/12/2012:55 AM
But In my opinion a 330 Is a very poor trap choice for coon work. Your bound to get a fair amount of hip caught coon and that's not fair to the coon. When we use to to be able to use 220s for coon I figured I could push those trigger wires off to the side a bit so I would miss some of that junk stuff. I'm sure I did miss some junk but I also caught a fair amount of coon that were hip caught. And I will say It again It wasn't fair to those coon. Just because you can use some type of trap doesn't mean It's the right thing to do.
I know when I trapped In Canada we would kick a hole In snow drift and put a chunk of beaver meat In It then stabilize a 330 In front of that snow hole. It was a real fox killer. But we were In wilderness situation.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6990110 09/14/2009:28 AM09/14/2009:28 AM
Quick update on my test. Possums keep coming in early to steal the bait, so finally set a live trap to deal with those. Was using the trigger pattern recommended for boxes in the 5 x 5 coon DVD:
When set, this looked pretty good. Open look to encourage entry, yet at tips, there may not be 3 inches of space to get under. Looked to be impossible to get past without firing.
If purpose was to snuff me a possum, I got that done. Trap suitcased him with a neck AND thorax strike and he never moved which was a surprise that he got in that deep.....they had been moving the triggers upon entry and triggers are tuned to the point of not moving more than 1/2" before trap fired. Trap was right where I left it, except it now had a good sized juvenile possum in it. Curious thing was the bait was gone. Either a different possum came in over the top (none showed on game camera), or this guy got all the way past it, ate the bait and triggered it backing out. And of course game camera recorded him sniffing, but cut off just as his nose got to the trap. It was the last recording I had for the night.
Didn't find out much, but got rid of the bait stealing traffic so we can give a coon a chance to see what he does.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6990121 09/14/2009:38 AM09/14/2009:38 AM
When I posted before, I had only gone to the barn to see what I had. Now that I've had a chance to pull him from the trap, 99% certain he was the one who cleaned out the bait and was backing out. He was halfway through the trap when it fired. Bars with dog and to inside of trap caught him on top of back and behind front legs....... bars with trigger wires and to the outside caught him in front of back hips. Trigger wires pointing straight up, but were in front position, so would have traveled with / trailed front bars that caught on over the back hips.
So juvenile male possum half the size of even this year's coon kits, but still can't believe he got that far and spent that much time inside the trap without it firing. And I tested it again, and tips of triggers didn't move 1/2" and trap fired.
BTW, have several videos of at least 2 different possums going through this trap and all videos have possum stepping on the bottom bars....with one foot just below their chin...as head passes through the trap. With a possum, seems like a foot and leg inside the jaws is more likely than not.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6990283 09/14/2012:47 PM09/14/2012:47 PM
How far do the trigger wires move before the trap springs? This Is a critical adjustment. You need a minimum of a inch or so to get good base of the skull hits. To far and your going to get body catches.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6990300 09/14/2001:00 PM09/14/2001:00 PM
It the tips of these trigger wires move much more than 1/2", the trap fires. As BG's go, this one has a nice crisp trigger on it.
This trigger pattern was what was mentioned as being recommended in that 5 x 5 DVD for coon boxes. The pattern looks good in theory, as these guys routinely go under wires like this. Watched a cage released kit go under an electric poultry netting a few months back.....was no gap....he made one with his snout. He didn't even slow down. But to get trap with this trigger configuration to fire, crown of his head is gonna have to push on the short drops.....not much leverage there.....or push up on wires as his head passes through. Looks good, but jury is still out on this one.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: bctomcat]
#6990415 09/14/2003:47 PM09/14/2003:47 PM
Trigger for the pan to the rear with pan facing out? Or to the front, with pan facing in to bait? May not seem like a difference, but seems to me it could move strike location forward or back by nearly 2 inches? If so, that would matter.
In order to function properly a pan trigger must angle up about 20 degrees over the back-trap jaw with the trigger dog pointing to the box entrance. The trigger should be set up so it takes a bit of pressure to fire, no trigger waxing.
If set to level the pan may hang up on the box bottom and not release from the dog thus, requiring additional pressure to release and fire the trap.
I was wondering if anyone would mention using pans...they did and is far my favorite in a baited box set, cubby or bucket !
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6990616 09/14/2007:21 PM09/14/2007:21 PM
Boco, I have seen the same thing with 330 caught coon - suitcase and dead right there. I don't set them for coons, but a set in a shallow run, a bait stick set, or a crossover set will take plenty of coons in the south. I have one ditch that is as wide as a 330 that connects a large stream to a pond. It is a long ditch and I always have 3-4 sets in it as it is a beaver and otter hotspot. Coons run that ditch too and it is not uncommon to double or triple on them. They are always dead right where the trap hit them and it is often still on the support sticks. I run my 330 triggers on the bottom and a coon will usually hit it with its shoulders resulting in a hit behind the head and a hit lower on the body. A really big coon will bump it with its chest and get hit behind the head or across the chest, but it takes a really large coon to do this.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: LT GREY]
#6991361 09/15/2004:18 PM09/15/2004:18 PM
I was wondering if anyone would mention using pans...they did and is far my favorite in a baited box set, cubby or bucket !
Did you have many reach in, poor catch, problems as suggested by The Beav?
Originally Posted by The Beav
LOts of coon will reach In instead of sticking their head In to the opening. So placing the trap at the entrance and placing the bait closer to the trap will just get you more reach Ins. And catching a coon by the leg Is not fair to the coon.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6992831 09/17/2010:58 AM09/17/2010:58 AM
Videos continue. Have reset the restraint wires, so trap will set....but when it fires, bars only move 1/4" or so....(trap fires with a dull thud vs. the big bang you would get leaving this to the safeties).....so nobody gets hurt (yet)....but am still able to document what happens when coons come and go. Again, this is a CTM 5 x 5 trap. It is a hammer.
Of course....small possum got there first, and watching on video, it got all the way in and trap had not fired. It stayed low to avoid the trigger wires.....and video didn't catch him leaving, but trap had fired by then.
But shortly after, good sized coon showed up. Box sides are 9" tall....to give some perspective of scale. Turns out when coon goes in......as opposed to easing in slowly as possum did, coon punched his way in with some force....and likely would have fired the trap about here......ears just passing past center of trap....
Coon lowered his nose, so front of face was nearly vertical going through......would likely set off most trigger wires. Not sure what would happen with a pan. That is on the horizon to test as well.
But also found out that this good sized coon can get all the way through a 5 x 5 if he wants to....at one point he was hip deep.
In every instance......if food was within reach, would sit outside and reach in.....under, around and through the trap. If food is almost in reach.....say halfway back, he eases in with feet under his chin like a possum does. If food is all the way back, he punches in face first.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6993239 09/17/2009:13 PM09/17/2009:13 PM
Good solid information, thanks for taking the time to experiment and post your results. Gary.
In every instance......if food was within reach, would sit outside and reach in.....under, around and through the trap. If food is almost in reach.....say halfway back, he eases in with feet under his chin like a possum does. If food is all the way back, he punches in face first. [/quote]
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: garart]
#6993845 09/18/2005:30 PM09/18/2005:30 PM
Good solid information, thanks for taking the time to experiment and post your results. Gary.
If food is all the way back, he punches in face first.
This conclusion supports my suggestion to place a pan trigger trap close to the bait recessed deep into the back of the box. Yes we may still get some reach in catches but they should be minimal compared to other trigger set up reach in catches.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6993863 09/18/2006:16 PM09/18/2006:16 PM
But In that first picture the coon would have been dead before It's feet even reached a pan set up. I really don't see a need for a pan when trapping coon. For marten and mink and fisher I can see where the pan option would be a good thing.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6993948 09/18/2008:08 PM09/18/2008:08 PM
I agree beav,I wax all my bodygips. Wire triggers on a waxed trap work as well or better than pans. Trick to waxing bodygrips is to adjust dogs and triggers to fire crisply before waxing. If triggers are shoddy or have been worked to fire easily before waxing they are not reliable when waxed. A properly adjusted trigger when waxed will take a slight initial force,but will go all at once suddenly without any movement or sustained force.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6994602 09/19/2002:10 PM09/19/2002:10 PM
I wax the entire trap,it improves the striking force and the waxed jaws are easy on fur like marten and mink in freezing weather(dont stick and pull guardhair).
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#6995662 09/20/2008:18 PM09/20/2008:18 PM
Have watched Sam Woods Fast Track to Coon youtube (the one that runs over 2 hours) a few times, and he also uses trigger pattern #1 on his 160's, and claims to get nearly all catches right behind the head. Shows several caught that way. Assuming he didn't edit out the ones that were not, seems like a good way of setting them.
My videos continue, but it's slow going. No visits for 3 days.......then last night had 3 different groups come through, all of which are now trained to stick there head in these traps and will. Problem for getting good video being the only one that counts is the first one. Unless you get that, you don't find out much. Out of well over 50 videos of coon with heads in the trap, have yet to get one timed right to catch the trap firing. Again, jaws are wired open, so when trap fires, jaws only move 1/4" or so......so for now, using these guys as a research project.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7002842 09/28/2012:21 PM09/28/2012:21 PM
OK, have now obtained several videos of trap firing....so can document where they would be when trap goes off. In almost every case, coons are much deeper into the trap than I would have expected. Most already have one leg in and sometimes two. Have both adults and kits and response seems to be the same for all. Again, not what I would have expected.
First up is the trigger wires bent backwards towards the bait. The trigger position recommended in the video for trapping coon in boxes using 5 x 5 traps, except this has the clip on the outer jaw. Again, this is a CTM 5 x 5......strong springs, built of same stock as a 160 or 220 and heavy trigger wires (vs. some of the other 5 x 5's.....which except for stronger springs resemble 120's)
This was position of coon the moment the trap fired. In most cases, I have been able to advance the video frame by frame and can catch the dog motion. It happens fast.
Inner jaw might have caught him behind the ear, but with one leg in, I'm thinking the outer jaw would catch him in the chest?
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7002844 09/28/2012:24 PM09/28/2012:24 PM
Next one has what we had been referring to as trigger wire pattern #1.......same as Sam Woods used on his 160's in the Fast Track video.....
Both of these were this year's kits......half the size of some of the bigger coon that have been visiting. Still remarkable to me they can get that deep before the trap fires.
Trap is tuned well enough. Horizontal wire on top won't lift 3/8" before trap fires......vertical to the side won't move 3/4" before it fires.
Position of all coon is remarkable similar regardless of trigger configuration.
BTW, have all these documented on video, so will be putting together a youtube when I run out of triggers to test.
Next up is a pan trigger. With these guys bringing in a paw, it might fire sooner.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7042337 11/08/2009:19 AM11/08/2009:19 AM
Haven't updated lately, but tests have continued. Tough slogging. Been nights when it looks like as many as 10 coons came to visit, but the only one that matters is the first one that fires the trap. If the game camera misses that one, that day's test is ruined. So got a lot of nothing video.
Anyway, have concluded that these 5 x 5 traps in boxes are not for me. Never found a trigger pattern that would get a neck strike on the small coons......most would have been suitcased.......and yet not get a refusal from a big adult. Once fired, they can all get in, but a big boar is a tight fit. Another observation.......if the trigger pattern is open enough for a big coon to enter......it is open enough for the smaller juveniles of the year to make it all the way in and not fire the trap at all. Either they steal the bait or the trap fires with them fully in, so you would get a strike just behind the front legs and over the hips. Not acceptable to me. So for me, it's 160's or 220's or not at all.
Here is a slightly updated trigger pattern chart.
From my observations, the best timing of the strike came from trigger options 9 and 10. Both require a trap with 4 way trigger....and trap fires as they push the trigger to the side vs. back and in. Trigger pattern 9 got every coon that tried it. Some just way deeper than others.
One of the best may be the plain jane option 10. I've watched juveniles go all the way to the back, clean out the bait and never fire the trap. Yet an adult fires it when you want it almost every time. Came to realize that can also be a size filter. Small coon, cats, grinners, etc. are living on the edge, but probably won't fire the trap. An adult coon will. And as a bonus, no special fiddling required. Just use it as it comes out of the box. Centered or offset slightly. Neighbor down the road caught 10 coons and a possum in buckets this summer. I asked and he used trigger 10.....and centered it. He said every coon he caught was a neck strike and was found dead in the bucket.
Lastly, I'm putting any youtube video on hold for now. They just moved a harmless video of mine to the age restricted section. What offends their sensibilities has offended me.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7042450 11/08/2011:52 AM11/08/2011:52 AM
BTW, one other observation.......if you want to catch every coon that comes along, put a coil spring foot trap beneath the lip of an elevated box. You will probably get every one. If you do go that route, do not use a plastic bucket for your cubby. Next morning I had my coon, but the bucket had been destroyed......must have been shredded into 1000 pieces.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7060323 11/23/2009:11 PM11/23/2009:11 PM
years of experimenting settled me on a single long trigger wire set as far to one side or the other set on hardest notch for 220's in trails(95 % 0f my coon trapping) as it let most all smaller animals pass without settling trap off. Very few trash animals taken.
I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7060841 11/24/2008:40 AM11/24/2008:40 AM
years of experimenting settled me on a single long trigger wire set as far to one side or the other set on hardest notch for 220's in trails(95 % 0f my coon trapping) as it let most all smaller animals pass without settling trap off. Very few trash animals taken.
This is similar to what I concluded and mentioned 2 or 3 posts up. And one of those "trash" animals might be a young coon.
One of the problems that plagued these tests were the different age groups of the coon that showed up. There were about 3 of them. Adult boars and sows with kits.....year old males and open females......and this year's kits. The latter have been a big problem, as there are two groups of them......a pair and another group I refer to as "the three amigos". When going for video of the trap firing you only get one shot at it per night per trap. All too often, it would be one of the kits. So conclusions based on what happens to them leads to bad advice when it comes to the bigger adults.
So some definite trends would show up. Get the trigger space too open, and the kits could go all the way to the back, steal the bait and leave, and never fire the trap. Get it too choked down and you get refusals from the big adults. Typically, they reach, then move on. Also have watched two instances where a big boar stood outside the box, put his chin straight up in the air.....then straddled triggers with both arms and reached in as far as he could go to get the bait. In both instanced, he fired the trap. Had it been live, bars would have caught him above the elbows......probably breaking both arms, but not killing him. Would not want to find that in the morning.
So two best trigger patterns I found were #2......and #10. If offset to one side, #10 filters out the trash. If centered, #2 and #10 get about everything.......some deeper than others. Really small ones and grinners....probably a deep suitcase.......found dead but not the way I want to get em, if you get my drift.
BTW, as of this week, have begun thinning the herd. Found one of those kits shown in photos just this morning. A 160 in a box......trigger pattern #2, and a perfect neck strike behind the ears. Struggle lasted a few seconds and he was done. The way it is supposed to work.
Last edited by HayDay; 11/24/2011:30 AM.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7061057 11/24/2011:43 AM11/24/2011:43 AM
BTW, this all got started wondering if using body grips on coon would be a viable option, when upper size limit in our state is a 5 x 5. Have concluded no.....at least not for me.
Could be the traps I was using......which in my case was either a Victor, Belisle 120 or CTM. The latter is built heavy enough for coon, but mine only fires as a 2 way trigger, so only trigger pattern I could get to work was #2. I got refusals from big coon. The trigger patterns mentioned in DVD on coon trapping using 5 x 5 traps......let smaller animals and trash in but usually suitcased them eventually.
Don't know when I found these, but there is information out there on Best Management Practices........
BTW, before I get into any imperial entanglements with my warden, I am using both 160's and 220's, but using them in elevated boxes, inside my barn. As allowed.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7061116 11/24/2012:39 PM11/24/2012:39 PM
I’m using Bridger 160’s , pattern 3 in the type of box required in NY. Have not caught a lot but what I have trapped looks humane to me. Trigger wire bend to the back of the box. ps we don’t have Iowa coon here!
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7061263 11/24/2003:21 PM11/24/2003:21 PM
Thanks for the time to share results, HayDay. Have you tried a study with the circle triggers? If you haven't but would like to I would send you one to try and test.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7061377 11/24/2006:15 PM11/24/2006:15 PM
But I have gone so far as to put in same type of grass blocking used in trail sets, in upper corners even in the buckets. That is with the wide V pattern of #2. Without it, about 1 in 4 would try to go to the side and over......and likely as not, hit trigger with a foot and fire before being in far enough.
With blocking in the upper corners, what they see is basically a triangle shaped tunnel no different than a circle.......can see and smell the bait......and push in.....and trap usually fires at right time to get em right behind the ears. A double bend on the triggers to make a <> diamond would so about the same thing as circles, using stock triggers. But if the opening is too small, I think you get back to refusals from the big boys. When that happens, they almost always reach for a bit, then move on.
That US article on body grips made mention of something I had not thought of when using buckets. When making a trail set using H type stabilizers, sticks, stakes, etc, the trap is fixed in place. When it fires, springs are free to move both directions away from center of trap, so jaws close in same vertical plane trap was set. In buckets or boxes, with traps set in a slot and pushed all the way to the back, which is how 99% of us probably have done it, when trap fires, springs to the back have no where to go, so trap has to be propelled forward several inches out of the box to close. Would slow it down and change strike location deeper on the animal by the same distance. Might even weaken power of the strike as inertia of getting trap to move has to be overcome, plus any friction of springs moving in the slot.
Not sure if that's a theoretical solution in search of a problem, as a lot of coon been caught in buckets with 220's. But something to consider. Suggestion was to make slots deeper to allow for movement fore and aft so trap fires in place, but then the problem is fixing the trap in the slot to keep it from sliding around. I setup a 160 box like that to try. So far, its worked well.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7061418 11/24/2007:00 PM11/24/2007:00 PM
If you set a trap springs tight to the end of the slots,the trap will be ejected 25 feet from the box.Seen it demonstrated many times at trappers meetings.There is a lot of force there. Marten trappers use deep slots so the trap doesnt move when closing like you pointed out. A trap moving with that force can damage marten fur,probably not coon fur though.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: HayDay]
#7061421 11/24/2007:05 PM11/24/2007:05 PM
Wasn't there a post or article some time past about having longer over hang on boxes with smaller(<160) size traps ? Seemed to make a difference in that authors opinion
Re: Body Grip triggers for coon
[Re: eedup]
#7062277 11/25/2011:31 AM11/25/2011:31 AM
HayDay - I have always ran a tall rebar through the circles on the springs on bucket sets, as stabilizer posts. Started doing this as a kid bc I was afraid my traps would walk away if I didn’t get a clean hit. Now I know that isn’t a problem, but I rarely have anything but a clean neck strike, unless it’s something small. The small animals do get in too far bc I run the #2 trigger set up, but I don’t have a ton of that (a few opossums and one exceptionally small skunk from last year, all raccoons were clean hits).