No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products

Joe Goodman Prints
Please support Joe Goodman because he supports us with donations


Print Thread
Hop To
20Ga reloading help #6993027
09/17/20 03:08 PM
09/17/20 03:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Got the wife a MEC Jr. so she can reload her 20Ga shells that are cluttering up the place. I want to get some supplies but I'm having difficulty finding a recipe I want to use. This is just for shooting trap in the backyard so I don't need or want hot loads. Also, I have a few different brands of shells. I have some Federal target load, Estate target load and Winchester universal. I want to reload 7/8 load with Federal 209A primers, Green Dot powder and I was thinking of WAA20 wads. Now there are sort of recipes for this but I can't find one that has all three components for these various shell brands. Anyone have this in a recipe book? Or can you give me an idea of pressures? I'm looking for a universal load for her so she doesn't have to worry about sorting shell brands and use different components. You know, trying to make it "wife proof" grin By the way, it looks like Green Dot powder would be about 15 grains. Also, I don't know if the Winchester Universal hulls are tapered? I believe the Federal and the Estate are both straight.

Last edited by Finster; 09/17/20 03:47 PM.

I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993074
09/17/20 04:12 PM
09/17/20 04:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 425
Hilton, NY
P
Paul D. Heppner Offline
trapper
Paul D. Heppner  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 425
Hilton, NY
Finster, I load a lot of 20 ga shells. My preferred case are the Remington game loads, gun clubs, or sts premier. They last the longest with better crimps. be mindful of the crimp segmenting, some are 6 and some are 8. Both work well, just use the right starter. I also use Federal primers and WAA20 wads (claybuster clone). My go to powder is Alliant 20/28. The bushing in my charge bar is a #19. I threw a quick charge and weighed it at 15.2, haven't changed it in years. Shot weight is 7/8 ounce of magnum 8.5. If i'm chasing farm birds or rabbits I go to 7/8 of 5's. Green Dot in the 20 has over the years fallen by the wayside. Hard to find any modern data. Scuttle-but was the skeet shooters were splitting tube sets using green dot. The Estate and universals don't crimp well at all. The Federals will work but take some very careful setting up of the press. The crimp starter has to be set to completely close the started crimp and the finisher stations have to be set to apply just the right amount of final crimp. If they are off just a little bit the case will buckle right at the brass and they won't chamber. If you get everything just right you will end up with a good looking shell. Having said that the occasional one will still go south. The Federals will also not last very long, one or two loads. The Remingtons seem to go forever. I use a 9000G.

Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993086
09/17/20 04:31 PM
09/17/20 04:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,444
ND
M
MJM Offline
trapper
MJM  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,444
ND
I found this in a trap shoot forum.
Green Dot is really a 12 gauge powder, though in the past some considered it sutiable for 20 target loads. Starting several years ago Alliant began stepping down their recommended Green Dot loads for 20 gauge. Improved pressure testing methods showed that the old 14 gr. load behind 7/8 oz of shot was generating excesive pressure. Alliant considers Green Dot in any charge weight unsafe in 20 gas except behind 3/4 oz in 20 ga., and that generates a good amount of pressure. A lot of recipes that we have used for years have changed in recent times and it pays to get current with all the powders you have in inventory.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993088
09/17/20 04:33 PM
09/17/20 04:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,550
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,550
McGrath, AK
I have to agree with Paul. The Remington Premier cases turn out beautiful loads.

The Federal primer is what complicates your recipe IMO> It's a touch hotter than the Rem/ Win 209

I load strictly 3/4 oz loads for the 20. Green Dot is nice in that but it burns dirty in my experience.

I prefer 12.1 gns of International Clays and the Claybuster clone of the Win AA wads.

I also load AA cases with the same recipe but much prefer the Premiers.

Consider 3/4 oz loads and save some money. The clays will never know


Mean As Nails
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993091
09/17/20 04:40 PM
09/17/20 04:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Well, data on the Alliant powder site is showing federal plastic hulls with 15 grains of Green Dot, 7/8 load and a WAA20 wad at around 10,960 PSI. That looks about middle of the road pressure, maybe "middle high". I am good with that. I just don't know how that will work with an Estate hull that has the fiber bottom wad? The 20/28 powder looks like it may be a better choice on the low end of pressure. It's showing much higher pressures with the WAA20 wads in the Winchester than the same setup in the Federals. I just don't want to blow a gun up so I'm trying to figure out something foolproof if possible.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: white17] #6993093
09/17/20 04:43 PM
09/17/20 04:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by white17
I have to agree with Paul. The Remington Premier cases turn out beautiful loads.

The Federal primer is what complicates your recipe IMO> It's a touch hotter than the Rem/ Win 209

I load strictly 3/4 oz loads for the 20. Green Dot is nice in that but it burns dirty in my experience.

I prefer 12.1 gns of International Clays and the Claybuster clone of the Win AA wads.

I also load AA cases with the same recipe but much prefer the Premiers.

Consider 3/4 oz loads and save some money. The clays will never know

I agree about the federal primers. However, I would like to stick with them if possible. It's what I use for the 12Ga and I want to buy as few different components as possible.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993102
09/17/20 05:07 PM
09/17/20 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,643
southern oregon cascades
dirtydogtrapping Offline
trapper
dirtydogtrapping  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,643
southern oregon cascades
Looking in my reloading manual it shows one recipe for 7/8 oz Federal plastic cases .350 paper Basewad, fold crimp
Green Dot 14.5.- Fed. 209A -One Fed. 20S1. Velocity 1160. Pressure 9,500

There are also six recipes for. Green Dot in Winchester shells no 209A primers in these.


Last edited by dirtydogtrapping; 09/17/20 05:10 PM.

Violator 7 smells like Heaven!
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993107
09/17/20 05:19 PM
09/17/20 05:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,132
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,132
sometimes PA sometimes ME
Originally Posted by Finster
Got the wife a MEC Jr. so she can reload her 20Ga shells that are cluttering up the place. I want to get some supplies but I'm having difficulty finding a recipe I want to use. This is just for shooting trap in the backyard so I don't need or want hot loads. Also, I have a few different brands of shells. I have some Federal target load, Estate target load and Winchester universal. I want to reload 7/8 load with Federal 209A primers, Green Dot powder and I was thinking of WAA20 wads. Now there are sort of recipes for this but I can't find one that has all three components for these various shell brands. Anyone have this in a recipe book? Or can you give me an idea of pressures? I'm looking for a universal load for her so she doesn't have to worry about sorting shell brands and use different components. You know, trying to make it "wife proof" grin By the way, it looks like Green Dot powder would be about 15 grains. Also, I don't know if the Winchester Universal hulls are tapered? I believe the Federal and the Estate are both straight.


Take this info for what is worth from someone that has shot more than a million shot shells and completely wore out two MEC 650's and put a hurtin on a PW size-o-matic.
Sort the hulls. better yet pick the one you like and pitch the rest. Find a load that matches the primer, wad & powder to the hull and load away. When you need hulls buy a few cases of new shells and you'll be good to go.

Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993113
09/17/20 05:25 PM
09/17/20 05:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 592
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 592
Washington
Your issue is the variety of hulls. A safe load in a Federal/Estate (they are the same hull if they both have the fibre basewad) is way overloaded in the Winchester Universals.

IMHO you would do well to toss those Winchester hulls in the garbage. While the Universal hull has the same general construction as a Win. AA hull, they use the flimsiest plastic and brass to make the Universal hulls price point. In a word- GARBAGE.


Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: ebsurveyor] #6993115
09/17/20 05:26 PM
09/17/20 05:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by ebsurveyor
Originally Posted by Finster
Got the wife a MEC Jr. so she can reload her 20Ga shells that are cluttering up the place. I want to get some supplies but I'm having difficulty finding a recipe I want to use. This is just for shooting trap in the backyard so I don't need or want hot loads. Also, I have a few different brands of shells. I have some Federal target load, Estate target load and Winchester universal. I want to reload 7/8 load with Federal 209A primers, Green Dot powder and I was thinking of WAA20 wads. Now there are sort of recipes for this but I can't find one that has all three components for these various shell brands. Anyone have this in a recipe book? Or can you give me an idea of pressures? I'm looking for a universal load for her so she doesn't have to worry about sorting shell brands and use different components. You know, trying to make it "wife proof" grin By the way, it looks like Green Dot powder would be about 15 grains. Also, I don't know if the Winchester Universal hulls are tapered? I believe the Federal and the Estate are both straight.


Take this info for what is worth from someone that has shot more than a million shot shells and completely wore out two MEC 650's and put a hurtin on a PW size-o-matic.
Sort the hulls. better yet pick the one you like and pitch the rest. Find a load that matches the primer, wad & powder to the hull and load away. When you need hulls buy a few cases of new shells and you'll be good to go.

Yup, probably good advice.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993126
09/17/20 05:50 PM
09/17/20 05:50 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,951
The great cage state Colorado
M
Monster Toms Online content
trapper
Monster Toms  Online Content
trapper
M

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,951
The great cage state Colorado
Although the MEC jr is a forgiving press, they don't do well with different types of hulls. Best advice your getting here is pick one quality hull and stick with it. one hull, one powder, one wad, one shot charge. Have loaded ten of thousands of 20 gauge with international clays and 7/8 oz of 9's for skeet.






Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993136
09/17/20 06:16 PM
09/17/20 06:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 425
Hilton, NY
P
Paul D. Heppner Offline
trapper
Paul D. Heppner  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 425
Hilton, NY
Getting hulls. I am considered by many members in the clubs that I belong to, to be the hull (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman). One of the reasons that I became a certified NSCA referee was that I would have access to untold numbers of nice virgin once fired hulls. A group would finish shooting a station, we would schmooze for a minute or two and move on. I would scramble grabbing hulls waiting for the next group to show up. I probably have two 32 gallon trash cans full of once fired 12ga Remington gun club and STS hulls and over one of 20s. Join a local sporting club, shoot some clays and start scrounging. If you are grabbing them that's less work for the trap boys to clean them up.

As far as pressures are concerned. For 12s, IMHO, the sweet spot performance wise is 8 to 9k, 20s around 10 to 11k. A factory 20 normally operates around 11k or a little more. If pressure gets too low loads get real dirty in all of them. Be mindful of crimp quality. A nice tight crimp goes a long way when talking constancy of performance. I have so many hulls in storage that I get pretty ruthless on the condition of my hulls and toss a lot of them.

Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993216
09/17/20 07:50 PM
09/17/20 07:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,972
7mtns of CENTRAL PA
GROUSEWIT Offline
trapper
GROUSEWIT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,972
7mtns of CENTRAL PA
International clays is a much better 20ga powder for target loads of 7/8 and 3/4 oz of shot!!


NRALIFER,HUNTER,FURTAKER(PTA)(FTA)(NMTA)(RMEF)
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993222
09/17/20 07:58 PM
09/17/20 07:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,550
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,550
McGrath, AK
I have 4000 Remington RXP20 7/8 0z wads that I can't use Good deal for someone


Mean As Nails
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993228
09/17/20 08:04 PM
09/17/20 08:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,550
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,550
McGrath, AK


Mean As Nails
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993233
09/17/20 08:06 PM
09/17/20 08:06 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,699
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Online content
trapper
Wanna Be  Online Content
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,699
SW Georgia
Its a wonder Im still alive and my parents arent in prison, lol.
My best friend and I talked our parents into buying us a reloader when we were 12. We reloaded thousands of shells with everything from #9s to BBs out of the packs wed buy at our local country curb store. We had a few squibs once in a blue moon, but knew to immediately safe the gun, unload, and clear the barrel. And believe it or not, I still have the same Winchester 1300 I got the same year I got the reloader.
We loaded everything hot, pretty sure they had a preset amount when reloading. Same with shot. Heck, we even substituted rock salt with light loads for taking care of varmints around trash cans.

Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Wanna Be] #6993502
09/18/20 05:59 AM
09/18/20 05:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Its a wonder Im still alive and my parents arent in prison, lol.
My best friend and I talked our parents into buying us a reloader when we were 12. We reloaded thousands of shells with everything from #9s to BBs out of the packs wed buy at our local country curb store. We had a few squibs once in a blue moon, but knew to immediately safe the gun, unload, and clear the barrel. And believe it or not, I still have the same Winchester 1300 I got the same year I got the reloader.
We loaded everything hot, pretty sure they had a preset amount when reloading. Same with shot. Heck, we even substituted rock salt with light loads for taking care of varmints around trash cans.

LOL... Yup, I did the same thing when I was a kid. I had a Lee load all for my 16 ga Mossberg Bolt action. I loaded all kinds of crap just like you. I even mixed powders! eek The only reason that gun probably still exist is because it was built like a howitzer. That was my first shotgun, I bought it for $20 I think and I still have it. Looking back on it, I'm surprised I still have my hands and fingers if not worse. For me, it was ignorance of youth and no mentor for the outdoor world.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993622
09/18/20 08:47 AM
09/18/20 08:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 592
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 592
Washington
I think that my idea of a "universal" load is likely different than yours but this is what I've landed on.

All of my 20 gauge presses are currently set for 20 gr of Longshot in Federal/straight walll hulls. By changing wads, I have published recipes for lead, bismuth and tungsten shot types. Those loads can be done without making changes to the settings on the press. Longshot is a versatile powder in the 20 gauge, capable of both high speeds and subsonic.

My Remington and Winchester AA hulls are reserved for lighter target loads. Winchesters have the least volume of any 20 gauge hull.


Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler
Re: 20Ga reloading help [Re: Finster] #6993846
09/18/20 04:31 PM
09/18/20 04:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,751
Fredonia, PA.
Ok, after playing with this for a couple days now, I figured out a recipe that works well. I've reloaded a couple shells and tried them out. It's looking good. This is for both the estate hulls and the Winchester universal hulls. The load is errored on the side of caution to be light (ish) but they are being shot out of a Mossberg 500 that will handle 3" so I'm quite sure that I'm within pressure range. I'm doing 13.5 grains of Hodgdon International, 7/8 load, WAA20 wads and Fed 209A primers. Seems like the load I was looking for.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread