Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: BernieB.]
#6992382
09/16/20 08:15 PM
09/16/20 08:15 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,848 Michigan
Michigander
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,848
Michigan
|
Here's another one to chew on. Only humans have emotion.
You can't be serious? You have never saw a happy animal? An animal that was scared?
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: nate]
#6992422
09/16/20 08:50 PM
09/16/20 08:50 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,077 Wyoming
cmcf
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,077
Wyoming
|
How about the animals graveside greaving for the loss of their master for so many years that monuments are erected to honor the animal. Many instances.
“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: nate]
#6992534
09/16/20 10:21 PM
09/16/20 10:21 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,505 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,505
james bay frontierOnt.
|
Reason and memory are two different things altogether. What is reason? In it's simplest for it is logic; basically the ability to figure out "If this, then that." No animal has ever been able to complete this basic logic, no matter how hard scientists try, they cannot find any behavior that cannot be explained by learned behavior. That includes communication, use of tools, etc. Humans can reason, animals cannot.
Here's another one to chew on. Only humans have emotion. [/quote]
C'mon Bernie, aren't you one of those guys that says big boar bear kill cubs so they can breed with the sow? I've heard that said by all manner of people. I think we are defining "reason" two different ways. I believe animals can reason, but I don't believe they have the ability to take it up a notch or two and, for and example, think " if I eat that cub, I can expect it's mother to come into estrous a year earlier than if I don't eat it". Isn't it reasoning when a bear shifts it's late summer range to take advantage of a good acorn crop, or other food source? How about the folks in Montana/Wyoming that say Grizzly Bear are habituated to rifle shots meaning food. Are they not reasoning that there may be grub over there where that shot just rang out? Is it not reason, or just memory? I say they can be one and the same. As for your statement about emotion.......I believe they have that too. Watch a dog you've known for years, you can tell when they are happy or maybe pouting.
[/quote]
Your describing pavlov's dog(pavlovian conditioning),not reasoning in the least.
Last edited by Boco; 09/16/20 10:23 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: nate]
#6992556
09/16/20 11:03 PM
09/16/20 11:03 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,515 West Central MN
20scout
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,515
West Central MN
|
Only humans have emotions? I have a hard time believing that. Everyone shows emotions differently so how can you say animals don't show emotions? Tell me your dog doesn't show happines when you give them a treat? Tell me they don't show remorse when they're done something wrong?
Last edited by 20scout; 09/16/20 11:04 PM.
Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: nate]
#6992720
09/17/20 08:05 AM
09/17/20 08:05 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,446 Houghton Lake, MI
strike2x
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,446
Houghton Lake, MI
|
I set trap, catch critter, dispatch said critter, skin critter, dispose of remains, sleep well at night, REPEAT. Maybe it is I, the wrapper that shows no emotions. Critters may remember things like where food is o what others smell like but it is all instinct driven. My 2 pennies.
Wish I had more time to trap....
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6992749
09/17/20 09:10 AM
09/17/20 09:10 AM
|
Mark June
Unregistered
|
Mark June
Unregistered
|
There appears to be as many types of reasoning as there are stray cats in an Asian restaurant dumpster.
I heard a goodin a few months back by a German pyscologist when asked about the American educational knowledge; He said, "They are a mile wide and an inch deep on all subjects." What? He are not a mile wide! Ouch.
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6993679
09/18/20 11:48 AM
09/18/20 11:48 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 345 Pennsylvania
coalbank
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 345
Pennsylvania
|
If my dog can't reason, he has me fooled. As a matter of fact he fools me often. You certain you aren’t fooling yourself? Not exactly. Perhaps my understanding of Reasoning is flawed. This morning my dog ran with the 4wheeler for quite awhile and was tiring some. He runs off the trail and down the hollow or whichever way his freedom takes him. A few times I noticed when he was downhill from me and saw my direction of travel was his way he sat and waited for me to get there. Is it reason that leads him to believe that he can wait there. He has never been on this trail before. Rudimentary reasoning? Not claiming he is Socrates but he suprises me all the time with his wit.
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: nate]
#6993698
09/18/20 12:38 PM
09/18/20 12:38 PM
|
Mark June
Unregistered
|
Mark June
Unregistered
|
I find it fascinating that we try to figure out the animal kingdom. I wonder if animals do the same about humankind?
|
|
|
Re: Reaoning power of animals
[Re: coalbank]
#6993707
09/18/20 12:57 PM
09/18/20 12:57 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
"Chippendale Trapper"
|
"Chippendale Trapper"
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
|
Not exactly. Perhaps my understanding of Reasoning is flawed.
This morning my dog ran with the 4wheeler for quite awhile and was tiring some. He runs off the trail and down the hollow or whichever way his freedom takes him. A few times I noticed when he was downhill from me and saw my direction of travel was his way he sat and waited for me to get there. Is it reason that leads him to believe that he can wait there. He has never been on this trail before. Rudimentary reasoning? Not claiming he is Socrates but he suprises me all the time with his wit.
I would say pack hunting instinct.
-Goofy-
|
|
|
|
|