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Re: Petr [Re: Sharon] #7000077
09/25/20 03:30 PM
09/25/20 03:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
amspoker Offline
trapper
amspoker  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
Originally Posted by Sharon

Seems to be a number of theories going on , though the thought of a moderator playing that role wouldn't come into my mind in a million years - interesting smile

Good of you to apologize , but an apology also given to the moderator would be most appropriate , I'm sure ... eh, "comrade" ?? wink


Lol. I doubt I hurt his feelings. If so, I do apologize. He is clever enough to pull it off is more what I meant

I didn't mean to imply anyone was doing anything wrong, just it was an interesting lesson in human nature.



Levi
Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000090
09/25/20 03:45 PM
09/25/20 03:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,494
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,494
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Oh I see what you mean now, Levi. Yes , human nature , honed by education has been fascinating, especially in these types of subjects. And trying to ascertain tone inflection and sound into writing alone , makes communications even more challenging at times ! grin

Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000097
09/25/20 03:50 PM
09/25/20 03:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,041
SE Iowa USA
A
AKAjust Offline
trapper
AKAjust  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,041
SE Iowa USA
" The cruelest thing we can do to wildlife is to fail to manage it"
Quote from the front cover of The Fur Taker magazine.

just

Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000107
09/25/20 03:56 PM
09/25/20 03:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,101
Central Pennsylvania
Nittany Lion Offline
Don't call me Mister, Mister
Nittany Lion  Offline
Don't call me Mister, Mister

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,101
Central Pennsylvania
Trying to figure out who Petr is, is like trying to figure where Paul's pint of Backbreaker is.


I got myself a seniors' GPS.
Not only does it tell me how to get to my destination,
it tells me why I wanted to go there.
Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000132
09/25/20 04:16 PM
09/25/20 04:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,276
NWT
Ryan McLeod Offline
trapper
Ryan McLeod  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,276
NWT
Im not going to debate any antis (or uncles) smile but one thing has been in my mind since reading his comment that had to do with why do we trap and looking into a trapped animals eyes. One of the reasons I trap, and trap/hunt wolves in particular is because I have looked into the eyes of several moose in my life with half a hind quarter gone, nose torn off, rectum gone, ears ripped off, and still standing with no fresh wolf tracks to be seen. Ive seen valleys with 20-30 dead reindeer calves with only the heads eaten. But I don't kill wolves in anger or spite. Theyre just being wolves. To me its just what we have always done and will continue to do as long as there are wolves. Very straight forward in my eyes.


If you take care of the land the land will take care of you
Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000136
09/25/20 04:22 PM
09/25/20 04:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,887
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,887
Amite county Mississippi
Anyone else notice how this guy just repeated him self and goes after the easiest seeming prosts that he can try to break down with his logic and avoiding everything else like the plague

Re: Petr [Re: Boco] #7000179
09/25/20 05:30 PM
09/25/20 05:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 325
Central Wisconsin
C
cwtrapper Offline
trapper
cwtrapper  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 325
Central Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Boco
Wild furbearer management and conservation is a complex subject steeped in science and biology.Trappers are the front line conservationists and the rest of society who enjoy the abundance of healthy wildlife populations for their own altruistic reasons should thank the dedicated wildlife managers with their boots on the ground(trappers) for our abundantly healthy ecosystems managed at an optimum carrying capacity by trappers for everyone's enjoyment.
Trapping in North America is highly regulated for the purpose of keeping wildlife at an optimum healthy sustainable level free from zoonotic diseases that have run rampant in the past before furbearer management was implemented.Diseases of all sorts devastated whole populations of animals in the past to the point where species were on the brink of extinction.Wild animal diseases often cross over to humans with equally devastating results(covid for example)Wild furbearer managers had the foresight to trap and relocate animals to save entire species and implemented regulations like seasons, quotas,licensing and trapper education to manage the populations at sustainable levels to prevent the devastating diseases from taking hold in the future in unmanaged populations of furbearers that were overpopulated.
In North America animal populations,habitat carrying capacities,and harvestable quantities of surplus animals have never been higher.
I doubt if Peter has any concept of wild furbearer management so In a nutshell-for peter-The land has a limited capacity to provide for a certain number of animals on the landscape long term.When the habitat is at optimum carrying capacity,there is a healthy population of animals with sufficient food and shelter opportunities.In spring these animals reproduce and more animals are now on the landscape.These extra animals will generally do well for the summer and even in the fall when the young disperse.This is when the resources become stressed from the influx of the extra animals.The older animals have an established home range which they defend against the dispersing juveniles seeking to establish a home range of their own to overwinter.Many of these animals will perish by late winter.Late winter is the leanest and harshest time on the landscape,and this is the time when the carrying capacity of the land is set and established.This is the time of year when the juvenile animals that have not been able to establish a home to sustain them die from starvation or disease.
The wildlife conservationist(trappers) role is to take the excess animals on the landscape that will not survive whether trapped or not in order to keep the population that remains healthy and in balance with the carrying capacity of the land.This paring back of the excess population is done in late fall and early winter which opens up areas for dispersing juveniles to establish home ranges for winter and/or take the excess juveniles that will not be able to find a place to live for winter because other animals are already there.Care must also be taken not to affect the breeding population responsible for reproduction by overtrapping or trapping at the wrong time of year(late winter,spring).

A good analogy is explained by the great wolfian bathtub riddle established by studies done by biologists in Algonquin park in the 50's and 60's.

Carrying capacity of the land was explained by picturing a bathtub tthat holds 300 gallons of water.From the 300 gallon mark to the 150 gallon mark there are a number of small holes drilled in the tub.The 150 gallons is the carrying capacity
The tub is filled with water up to the 300 gallon mark every spring.As soon as this is done,water slowly starts to leak out and will eventually leak down to the 150 gallon mark by the next spring.
Now if someone comes along and scoops out 10-20-30 or even 100 gallons of water out of the tub,after filling to 300 gallons ,the water will still leak down to the 150 gallon mark the same as it would if no water was taken out.
Now if more than 150 gallons of water is taken out say 250,then when you add the 150 gallons next spring the total will only be 200 gallons.This is equivalent to overharvest the seed animals affecting the animals available for harvest in the next year,maybe 2.

So as you can see the animals need to be kept in a balance to have the highest number of healthy animals on the landscape year to year available to harvest by the wildlife manager(trapper) to help pay for his job keeping the overall populations of the animals on the landscape in a prolonged healthy sustainable level in balance with the optimum carrying capacity as dictated by mother nature who provides surplusses that have to be used in order to keep the balance and the entire system healthy.
When things get out of balance like removing man as the top predator(manager) on the landscape then everything else suffers for it.

Just to add,a concientious wildlife manager(trapper) does not remove animals from the foodchain on the landscape.Trappers will "borrow" the animal only to take the fur(totally renewable natural resource). We will use the meat of some of those species that are suitable for human consumption as needed.The rest goes back into the food chain on the landscape,naturally,as part of the ecosystem.Many trappers often provide the carcasses to the animals long after trapping season in late winter when the times are lean and the carrying capacity is set-this will increase the carrying capacity of the land at this crucial time of year.

Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000186
09/25/20 05:36 PM
09/25/20 05:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 325
Central Wisconsin
C
cwtrapper Offline
trapper
cwtrapper  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 325
Central Wisconsin
Best post I've seen on the whole thread. I'm afraid it falls on deaf ears tough. The guy is simply running off his emotions. I don't believe he is one to listen to any reasonable conversation. Says he's on the high road. However when you revert to name calling. " Murderers" He has no meaningful argument.

Re: Petr [Re: amspoker] #7000194
09/25/20 05:41 PM
09/25/20 05:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,375
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,375
Iowa
Originally Posted by amspoker
Originally Posted by Paul

No, I don't have a moderator pretending to be Petr.



Ok. Sorry.

Petr seemed so over the top I thought he might have been fake.



Interesting. grin

Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000196
09/25/20 05:44 PM
09/25/20 05:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,963
Central Ontario, Canada
C
Crit-R-Dun Offline
trapper
Crit-R-Dun  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,963
Central Ontario, Canada
Who would have time for something like that? Even Paul has a life away from trapperman I'm sure, lol.

Re: Petr [Re: Boco] #7000207
09/25/20 05:59 PM
09/25/20 05:59 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,520
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,520
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Boco
Doesnt take long for a "conspiracy theory" to pop up nowadays,lol.


Its always the "Grassy Knoll".

Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000215
09/25/20 06:08 PM
09/25/20 06:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,446
OBX N.C.
Leary Sink Offline
trapper
Leary Sink  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,446
OBX N.C.
He spends his days mashing grapes for wine then takes his shoes off and climbs into a vat of skunky Backbreaker and mashes that around a little while. Probably smokes a good cigar then fills orders awhile while sipping Skeeter Pee & Backbreaker.
Then he will go out in typical Dobbin’s fashion declare a jihad on beavers somewhere in Eastern NC.

Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000227
09/25/20 06:19 PM
09/25/20 06:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,879
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,879
perry co.Pa
Ok Petr. You say you are a follower of Gaia.
You would use a non-renewable resource( crude oil) to make a fashion statement
And no one can use a renewable resource( the animals of mother earth) for anything
Please explain

Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000275
09/25/20 06:55 PM
09/25/20 06:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,640
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
trapper
Nessmuck  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,640
New Hampshire
Now all Yinz have some first hand experience.....on what Russian Interference is .....


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Petr [Re: Nessmuck] #7000301
09/25/20 07:17 PM
09/25/20 07:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Online content
trapper
Dirt  Online Content
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Nessmuck
Now all Yinz have some first hand experience.....on what Russian Interference is .....


Things must have improved a lot in Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union. They used to worry about thier own suffering, not the animals they wish they could eat. Millet again! frown


Who is John Galt?
Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000320
09/25/20 07:38 PM
09/25/20 07:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,562
Va
B
bandy Offline
trapper
bandy  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,562
Va
Hey Paul maybe Petr can come to the Bland convention in October and there he can finally understand.


No matter where you go there you are.
Re: Petr [Re: wetdog] #7000330
09/25/20 07:46 PM
09/25/20 07:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,954
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,954
Indiana
Originally Posted by wetdog
Ok Petr. You say you are a follower of Gaia.
You would use a non-renewable resource( crude oil) to make a fashion statement
And no one can use a renewable resource( the animals of mother earth) for anything
Please explain



Excellent, point. But he will never address it.

Infact we are much closer to living near Gaia and with Gaia being a part of the natural world.

Re: Petr [Re: Sharon] #7000332
09/25/20 07:48 PM
09/25/20 07:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted by Sharon
Oh I see what you mean now, Levi. Yes , human nature , honed by education has been fascinating, especially in these types of subjects. And trying to ascertain tone inflection and sound into writing alone , makes communications even more challenging at times ! grin

"ascertain tone inflection" ?!?!? Those are some awful big words. Did you go to college or something? laugh


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000338
09/25/20 07:52 PM
09/25/20 07:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
Last I knew Russia was so poor that folks had to use fur blankets as they couldn't buy heating oil. I'm sure Petr is a rich little prik that has had everything handed to him except common sense.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Petr [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7000368
09/25/20 08:31 PM
09/25/20 08:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Russia
P
Petr Offline
trapper
Petr  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Russia
BUT Mr. Boco what if u plug up those holes...some of them...so the water stays more in the tub? Then the tub has more carrying capacity right?

Someone said they feed the carcasses back to nature...plugging the holes. Why not plug most of the holes by feeding the animals through winter?

Instead of all the money u spend on trapping (and hunting, another vile sport) why don't u help pay for feed stations to help the animals through winter?

PLUG those holes!!!

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