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Cruelty For A Cause #7000554
09/25/20 11:54 PM
09/25/20 11:54 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,516
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline OP
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline OP
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F

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,516
Southern Illinois
Well just saw on the local news a episode from Chicago. A horse ridden with no shoes for I think 7 miles til he dropped. Authorities said he may not recover and have to be put down. I guess I just don't see the need for it, maybe I'm a closet animal rights nut. I just looked this up on Google.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...cowboy-adam-hollingsworth-animal-cruelty

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000586
09/26/20 12:36 AM
09/26/20 12:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,182
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,182
Eau Claire Wi
Messed up people out there.


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000590
09/26/20 12:56 AM
09/26/20 12:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 100
North Dakota
W
WakopaWalker Offline
trapper
WakopaWalker  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 100
North Dakota
No shoes on a horse may or might not be an issue, depends on the horse and conditioning. Likewise 7 miles of looking and trotting, if properly conditioned. But it sounds like that wasn't the case. Probably nerved the horse, which is not good in any way.

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000620
09/26/20 03:17 AM
09/26/20 03:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,500
Kenai AK
K
KenaiKid Offline
trapper
KenaiKid  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,500
Kenai AK
Think PETA will rally for his conviction, or not because he's a leftist?


Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Boco couldn't catch a cold.

But if he did, it would be Top Lot.
Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000621
09/26/20 03:22 AM
09/26/20 03:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
I doubt he was aware he was being cruel


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000632
09/26/20 05:04 AM
09/26/20 05:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,963
Central Ontario, Canada
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Crit-R-Dun Offline
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Crit-R-Dun  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,963
Central Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by Foxpaw
Well just saw on the local news a episode from Chicago. A horse ridden with no shoes for I think 7 miles til he dropped. Authorities said he may not recover and have to be put down. I guess I just don't see the need for it, maybe I'm a closet animal rights nut. I just looked this up on Google.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...cowboy-adam-hollingsworth-animal-cruelty


Animal rights and animal welfare are two very different things.

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: danny clifton] #7000647
09/26/20 06:22 AM
09/26/20 06:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,636
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,636
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I doubt he was aware he was being cruel

That's the impression I have from the interviews afterwards.

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: danny clifton] #7000665
09/26/20 06:49 AM
09/26/20 06:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,619
Iowa
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trapdog1 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,619
Iowa
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I doubt he was aware he was being cruel


I agree, because the guy is simply too stupid to know any better.

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: danny clifton] #7000733
09/26/20 08:41 AM
09/26/20 08:41 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,516
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline OP
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,516
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I doubt he was aware he was being cruel


You may be right with that line of thought. That kinda of coincides with the idea that one can get the public to give sympathy to a cause by burning down homes and businesses. Or the same logic that if a guy gets caught in a illegal act of say a broken tail light and he knows he has a list of more serious warrants then he is not going to comply with any police officer and resist and then if he gets hurt its the cop that is wrong.

In this case peta may be able to get a bigger outcry than all of the outcry over all the riots, but rest assured they will put a spin on it that will further tighten the noose on the average horse owner any animal owner as far as that goes.

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000753
09/26/20 09:01 AM
09/26/20 09:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,035
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

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Posts: 63,035
Minnesota
Ida traded for it... for Dog food


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: 330-Trapper] #7000767
09/26/20 09:13 AM
09/26/20 09:13 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,516
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline OP
trapper
Foxpaw  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,516
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by 330-Trapper
Ida traded for it... for Dog food


Yeah but the horse has a name. That is one thing I see in the bible that even the dog in the Book of Tobit doesn't have a name.

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000777
09/26/20 09:20 AM
09/26/20 09:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,035
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,035
Minnesota
Name would have been legally changed to dug-chow


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: 330-Trapper] #7000813
09/26/20 10:08 AM
09/26/20 10:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 23
northeast ohio
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mccormick Offline
trapper
mccormick  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 23
northeast ohio
Why would not having shoes on a horse mess them up .just curious I don't know anything about horses

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: mccormick] #7000814
09/26/20 10:12 AM
09/26/20 10:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,865
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline
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Wolfdog91  Offline
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Posts: 11,865
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by mccormick
Why would not having shoes on a horse mess them up .just curious I don't know anything about horses

Yeah I'm curious too, I guess it being in a paved hard surface had something to do with it

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: mccormick] #7000815
09/26/20 10:15 AM
09/26/20 10:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,576
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by mccormick
Why would not having shoes on a horse mess them up .just curious I don't know anything about horses

Run 7 miles on tar in bare feet with a load on your back. Feet are not highly enough considered when breeding horses, then most horses stand around in a pasture most of their life not working and getting fat, their joints, feet, body all need to be conditioned before hard work.

Horses originate from open grasslands with few hard surfaces, they can handle hard surfaces with proper conditioning and shoes.

Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: trapdog1] #7000817
09/26/20 10:18 AM
09/26/20 10:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 849
Washington
wildflights Offline
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wildflights  Offline
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Posts: 849
Washington
Originally Posted by trapdog1
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I doubt he was aware he was being cruel


I agree, because the guy is simply too stupid to know any better.


It appears to have been his horse and the motorcyclists were part of his Burn Loot Murder crew. https://kwwl.com/2020/09/22/horsema...9zoaXgjSX0Tj1ABO1_vpBHcE9Y9_rBJVwEOu1FCw

"The horse, in critical condition, continues to collapse during treatment, and is never expected to stabilize, Deboni said."


Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler
Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: mccormick] #7000829
09/26/20 10:35 AM
09/26/20 10:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Originally Posted by mccormick
Why would not having shoes on a horse mess them up .just curious I don't know anything about horses


A horse's hoof is basically the same type material as fingernails and is a shell over soft inner tissue backed by muscle and bone supporting the full weight of the animal. Imagine running on just your fingernails over a hard surface. They will crack and abrade into the quick crippling the animal. Should infection set in or permanent scarring occur the animal may be crippled for life. Further a horses physiology is predicated on being upright and mobile. Long periods of immobility will cause systemic complications and death.
Iron shoes provide a firm rim that can take the abrasion and a flat surface to spread impact however they do nothing to deter shock further up the leg so running a horse on hard surfaces can harm the bones and ligaments of the lower leg even if shod.


[Linked Image]
Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000836
09/26/20 10:47 AM
09/26/20 10:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593
Georgia
There is some debate within the horse community on the need and proper use of shoeing. Shoeing not only provides protection but since the hooves continually grow much like fingernails the shoeing and trimming process can remove growth that is excessive or may interfere with good posture or gait. In nature natural abrasion does occur usually keeping hoof growth in check however that varies by soil type the animal lives on.
Generally, shoeing should be done if the horse is to be on hard surfaces or in use that would damage the foot. Leaving a horse unshod is fine if normal wear is not excessive though one should also monitor growth and trim if needed.
Foot health in horses is vital. The old saying "No foot, No horse" is paramount.


[Linked Image]
Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: warrior] #7000843
09/26/20 11:01 AM
09/26/20 11:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 849
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 849
Washington
Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by mccormick
Why would not having shoes on a horse mess them up .just curious I don't know anything about horses


A horse's hoof is basically the same type material as fingernails and is a shell over soft inner tissue backed by muscle and bone supporting the full weight of the animal. Imagine running on just your fingernails over a hard surface. They will crack and abrade into the quick crippling the animal. Should infection set in or permanent scarring occur the animal may be crippled for life. Further a horses physiology is predicated on being upright and mobile. Long periods of immobility will cause systemic complications and death.
Iron shoes provide a firm rim that can take the abrasion and a flat surface to spread impact however they do nothing to deter shock further up the leg so running a horse on hard surfaces can harm the bones and ligaments of the lower leg.


Will add that there is a bone in the hoof structure known as a coffin bone that is protected by the hoof. If the coffin bone sinks/drops it causes laminitis. This can be caused from working a horse on a hard surface. Severe laminitis by itself is a reason to euthanize a horse.

"Laminitis can be caused by many factors, including overeating (obesity), working on a hard surface (commonly referred to as ROAD FOUNDER), running high fevers, exposure to black walnut shavings, and stress."


[Linked Image]

Last edited by wildflights; 09/26/20 11:08 AM.

Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler
Re: Cruelty For A Cause [Re: Foxpaw] #7000846
09/26/20 11:03 AM
09/26/20 11:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 100
North Dakota
W
WakopaWalker Offline
trapper
WakopaWalker  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 100
North Dakota
A life on concrete and asphalt might be one place where shoes on a horse would be helpful, so long as they have some grip added to them. Plain shoes on concrete are like ice-skates, it wouldn't surprise me if the horse fell several times if it did have shoes.

As was mentioned, horses haven't had enough attention given to feet structure in breeding. Many horses have thin hoof walls and soft soles genetically, because the last 4 or 6 generations were able and hoof structure ignored. Those horses need regular farrier work, including shoes. Other horses, who have been trimmed and kept in good shape, can work just as long and hard in most circumstances as shod horses. But their feet have been hardened and they have good structure and care.

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