Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: Pike River]
#7015785
10/12/20 07:06 PM
10/12/20 07:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
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Sweden is the perfect argument against Nordic socialism Awesome. Share the argument. The best argument is history. How Sweden Overcame SocialismIt’s a model for the U.S., but the lesson isn’t what Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks it is. Jesús Fernández-Villaverde and Lee E. Ohanian Jan. 9, 2019 7:06 pm ET Nearly half of millennials say they prefer socialism to capitalism, but what do they mean? “My policies most closely resemble what we see in the U.K., in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told “60 Minutes.” Yet Sweden’s experiment with socialist policies was disastrous, and its economic success in recent decades is a result of market-based reforms. Until the mid-20th century, Sweden pursued highly competitive market-based policies. By 1970 Sweden achieved the world’s fourth-highest per capita income. Then increasingly radical Social Democratic governments raised taxes, spending and regulation much more than any other Western European country. Economic performance sputtered. By the early 1990s, Sweden’s per capita income ranking had dropped to 14th. Economic growth from 1970 to the early 1990s was roughly 1 percentage point lower than in Europe and 2 points lower than in the U.S. Before its socialist experiment, Sweden had a smaller government sector than the U.S. By the early 1990s, government spending and transfer payments ballooned to 70% of gross domestic product, and debt had increased to 80% of GDP. Between 1966 and 1974, Sweden lost some 400,000 private jobs—proportionate to 16.7 million in today’s U.S. In 1991 a market-oriented government came to power and undertook far-reaching reforms. Policy makers have privatized parts of the health-care system, introduced for-profit schools along with school vouchers, and reduced welfare benefits. Since 1997, government ministries that propose new spending plans have been required to find offsetting cuts in their budgets. As a result, public debt has declined from 80% of GDP in the early 1990s to 41%. To increase incentives to work, Sweden reduced unemployment benefits and introduced an earned-income tax credit in 2007. The electricity and transportation industries were deregulated in the 1990s, and even the Swedish postal system was opened up to competition in 1993. The corporate tax rate was cut from its 2009 level of 28% to 22% today, and is scheduled to decline to 20.4% in 2021. This policy mix has earned Sweden a Heritage Foundation ranking as the 15th freest economy in the world. The U.S. is 18th. And it’s paid off. Since 1995, Swedish economic growth has exceeded that of its European Union peers by about 1 point a year. Sweden is now richer than all of the major EU countries and is within 15% of U.S. per capita GDP. While Sweden still has a larger government than the U.S., its tax code is flatter. The progressivity of the U.S. tax code distorts incentives. These distortions would become even larger under the tax-increase proposals of democratic socialists like Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. There is an example for the U.S. here, but the lesson isn’t what Ms. Ocasio-Cortez thinks. Command-and-control economic policies undermined Sweden’s prosperity, and they would do the same to America’s. Mr. Fernández-Villaverde is a professor of economics at the University of Pennsylvania. Mr. Ohanian is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and professor of economics at UCLA. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-sweden-overcame-socialism-11547078767
Mean As Nails
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: Pike River]
#7015788
10/12/20 07:10 PM
10/12/20 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,634 Georgia
warrior
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,634
Georgia
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Okay then let's argue who was worse Adolf Hitler, national socialism, or Joseph Stalin, international communism.
Y'all go first. I would say Hitler. With that out of the way Stalin was hated within the USSR but too feared to be removed. He laid the ground work for the corruption and mismanagement that the USSR became know for. Similar to crony capitalism. So without Uncle Joe utopia would have been achieved? What was Kruschev's failing?
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: warrior]
#7015798
10/12/20 07:23 PM
10/12/20 07:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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I would say Hitler. With that out of the way Stalin was hated within the USSR but too feared to be removed. He laid the ground work for the corruption and mismanagement that the USSR became know for. Similar to crony capitalism.
So without Uncle Joe utopia would have been achieved? What was Kruschev's failing? Didn't say anything like that.
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: white17]
#7015800
10/12/20 07:26 PM
10/12/20 07:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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[quote=Pike River] The best argument is history. How Sweden Overcame SocialismIt’s a model for the U.S., but the lesson isn’t what Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks it is. Jesús Fernández-Villaverde and Lee E. Ohanian Jan. 9, 2019 7:06 pm ET Nearly half of millennials say they prefer socialism to capitalism, but what do they mean? “My policies most closely resemble what we see in the U.K., in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told “60 Minutes.” Yet Sweden’s experiment with socialist policies was disastrous, and its economic success in recent decades is a result of market-based reforms. Until the mid-20th century, Sweden pursued highly competitive market-based policies. By 1970 Sweden achieved the world’s fourth-highest per capita income. Then increasingly radical Social Democratic governments raised taxes, spending and regulation much more than any other Western European country. Economic performance sputtered. By the early 1990s, Sweden’s per capita income ranking had dropped to 14th. Economic growth from 1970 to the early 1990s was roughly 1 percentage point lower than in Europe and 2 points lower than in the U.S. Before its socialist experiment, Sweden had a smaller government sector than the U.S. By the early 1990s, government spending and transfer payments ballooned to 70% of gross domestic product, and debt had increased to 80% of GDP. Between 1966 and 1974, Sweden lost some 400,000 private jobs—proportionate to 16.7 million in today’s U.S. In 1991 a market-oriented government came to power and undertook far-reaching reforms. Policy makers have privatized parts of the health-care system, introduced for-profit schools along with school vouchers, and reduced welfare benefits. Since 1997, government ministries that propose new spending plans have been required to find offsetting cuts in their budgets. As a result, public debt has declined from 80% of GDP in the early 1990s to 41%. To increase incentives to work, Sweden reduced unemployment benefits and introduced an earned-income tax credit in 2007. The electricity and transportation industries were deregulated in the 1990s, and even the Swedish postal system was opened up to competition in 1993. The corporate tax rate was cut from its 2009 level of 28% to 22% today, and is scheduled to decline to 20.4% in 2021. This policy mix has earned Sweden a Heritage Foundation ranking as the 15th freest economy in the world. The U.S. is 18th. And it’s paid off. Since 1995, Swedish economic growth has exceeded that of its European Union peers by about 1 point a year. Sweden is now richer than all of the major EU countries and is within 15% of U.S. per capita GDP. While Sweden still has a larger government than the U.S., its tax code is flatter. The progressivity of the U.S. tax code distorts incentives. These distortions would become even larger under the tax-increase proposals of democratic socialists like Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. There is an example for the U.S. here, but the lesson isn’t what Ms. Ocasio-Cortez thinks. Command-and-control economic policies undermined Sweden’s prosperity, and they would do the same to America’s. Mr. Fernández-Villaverde is a professor of economics at the University of Pennsylvania. Mr. Ohanian is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and professor of economics at UCLA. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-sweden-overcame-socialism-11547078767Thanks for the h research and resource
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: warrior]
#7015939
10/12/20 10:04 PM
10/12/20 10:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934 SE WI
DuxDawg
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
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“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!
If...if...
We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” -Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke "We are fast approaching... rule by brute force." -Ayn Rand
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: warrior]
#7015941
10/12/20 10:06 PM
10/12/20 10:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934 SE WI
DuxDawg
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
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"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote.
It is merely the difference between murder and suicide."
-Ayn Rand (1988). “The Ayn Rand Lexicon: Objectivism from A to Z”, p.466, Penguin
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke "We are fast approaching... rule by brute force." -Ayn Rand
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: warrior]
#7015955
10/12/20 10:13 PM
10/12/20 10:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934 SE WI
DuxDawg
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
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Under communism and socialism, millions of people wait many hours in long lines for very little food. (This has been the case in EVERY communist and socialist nation.) With capitalism, abundant food waits for few people. Choose wisely.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke "We are fast approaching... rule by brute force." -Ayn Rand
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: warrior]
#7016008
10/12/20 10:56 PM
10/12/20 10:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,074 North East Kansas
Marty
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,074
North East Kansas
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Trump will probably not win and then it will get very bad throughout the land...prepare.
E 'Honey Badger Militia' Sleep, the anti woke adote.
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: coonman220]
#7016027
10/12/20 11:24 PM
10/12/20 11:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,634 Georgia
warrior
OP
trapper
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,634
Georgia
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I wish had segretion like 1950-60s. Seperate drink fountains an restrooms. I am for it, maybe wouldn't be such covid problem, to many rights an privelages. Better treatment for minorities. There invite to move in, should be other way around. Like yesrs ago You do realize those were all progressive democrat policies don't you?
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: Marty]
#7016033
10/12/20 11:30 PM
10/12/20 11:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,202 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,202
Armpit, ak
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Trump will probably not win and then it will get very bad throughout the land...prepare. I loaded up with .22LR ammo. Not going through that again.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: warrior]
#7016048
10/12/20 11:46 PM
10/12/20 11:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,513 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,513
james bay frontierOnt.
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Better get some new stuff,that old stuff is likely half duds by now.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: warrior]
#7016096
10/13/20 02:24 AM
10/13/20 02:24 AM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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I wish had segretion like 1950-60s. Seperate drink fountains an restrooms. I am for it, maybe wouldn't be such covid problem, to many rights an privelages. Better treatment for minorities. There invite to move in, should be other way around. Like yesrs ago You do realize those were all progressive democrat policies don't you? So you two support Jim crow segregation?
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Re: For those who might have forgotten, Communism
[Re: mimusp]
#7016268
10/13/20 10:22 AM
10/13/20 10:22 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,720 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,720
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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A single authoritarian party? Can you say "Democrats' dream"? That is their ultimate goal. Listening to a man on the radio the other day who came here from a communist country. He said we shouldn't be fooled by the socialist agenda of the democratic party. They call it socialism when what they are proposing is really communism.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
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