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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: cattails] #7018549
10/15/20 09:34 PM
10/15/20 09:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,418
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Online content
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East-Central Wisconsin
In my opinion it depends heavily on how much water you are falling into or breaking through. Where I trap the bigger problem with falling in is not water depth but mud depth and being mired in mud and not being able to reach the canoe or boat. Also with hard water trapping I worry a lot more about leg, ankle etc. injury then going in to deep. When I went in over my shoulder last winter I bobbed up like a marshmallow. and got my elbows on solid ice and when under situations like that the adrenalin kicked in and I came out like a seal without having my feet on the bottom or in ooze.

If I were on water I know is quite deep I may look at the non belt factor but most importantly I would have my life vest on for sure. I will be trapping rats on the ice alone this winter and I will have some better gear than in the past.

I think this is a situation that has multiple solutions or BMPs depending upon many factors. Learning your trap line habitat and your own limitations etc. probably is the more important aspect.


Bryce

Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018578
10/15/20 09:54 PM
10/15/20 09:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,012
E central Il
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Golf ball Offline
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E central Il
I wish I was better at this computer stuff, but once upon a time I watched a video of a demo done with this theory of drowning in your waders was tested. This test was done in the summertime with divers in the water for safety. If I remember right the conclusion was with neoprene it didnt much matter if you were wearing a belt or not as they still remain somewhat buoyant even after a dunking. Rubberized canvas on the other hand needed a belt to retain buoyancy.
The presenter stresses that he was in warm water with safety divers and there for relaxed and regained his balance immediately . Even though the legs and boots floated, by bending at the waist he easily stayed up right .

Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018597
10/15/20 10:12 PM
10/15/20 10:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,388
New York border
Cragar Offline
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Cragar  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,388
New York border
Good thread/debate.

Safety is #1 , especially for outdoorsman like us. We need more information/input on this. I use a floatcoat when in a boat in colder months , even use it when bank fishing in cold months. Had a friend who was a fellow firefighter who borrowed my floatcoat to show to his firehouse to make them aware to its existence and maybe get some for their members for cold water rescue.

Safety is very important IMO.


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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018616
10/15/20 10:35 PM
10/15/20 10:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 6,712
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline OP
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If you have a link to that 'floatcoat,' please share it.


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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018631
10/15/20 10:48 PM
10/15/20 10:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,388
New York border
Cragar Offline
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Cragar  Offline
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New York border
Originally Posted by AJE
If you have a link to that 'floatcoat,' please share it.

Mine is a bit older than most. It is considered a type V(5) PFD (personal flotation device) only considered a good PFD when worn. Not something to be grabbed and then used. My brother who was in the Coast Guard who clued me into it. Fits like a cold weather gear like a heavy winter jacket.

https://www.boatingmag.com/comparisons-sake-float-coats/

It is very comfortable to wear as apposed to a normal life jacket. Not as bulky , just like a winter coat. I have even worn it on a winter day on dry land as it is warm and not bulky of sorta ridiculous like a life jacket.


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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018633
10/15/20 10:53 PM
10/15/20 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 6,712
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline OP
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Very interesting Cragar.


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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018646
10/15/20 11:06 PM
10/15/20 11:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,388
New York border
Cragar Offline
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Cragar  Offline
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New York border
I've had the one I have for over 10 years. Mine is kinda old tech compared to the ones they sell now.

Great freedom of movement , just like a heavy winter jacket , not a normal PFD which limits your movement. A bit spendy but ease of mobility is really good. Google for more options/prices/lower cost variations.

Safety is worth tons of money. Getting something that you don't mind wearing but keeps you safe , priceless.


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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018657
10/15/20 11:23 PM
10/15/20 11:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 83
MN
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MN
As long as we're talking safety, please be wearing some sort of traction devices on your footwear while out on the ice, It may be just as dangerous to fall ON the ice as THROUGH the ice.
There is a southern Mn guy who spent the night out on the slough ice after a fall.

Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018687
10/16/20 02:01 AM
10/16/20 02:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,087
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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I would agree with ditching the belt, the belt gives you a false sense security and a person wearing a belt is much less likely to wear a PFD. I've had several friends drown in the past few years; two while wearing chest waders.
A belt will buy you a few extra minutes in good weather and help provided you have someone close by to fish you out of the water, but while wearing one you can't really do anything except concentrate on keeping your knees up in order to keep air in the boots, you can't really do anything proactive to save yourself.
WEAR YOUR PFD, even on the nicest of days.
I insist my crewmen wear their PFD's even while nappingg on a flat calm day.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by waggler; 10/16/20 02:09 AM.

My life is better than your vacation
Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018831
10/16/20 09:38 AM
10/16/20 09:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,936
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
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La Crosse, WI
Ok finally a post I can jump in on that I know a bit about. Been a hunter, fisherman, river diver my whole life. Grew up here on banks of Mississippi river. Been 36 years now working in water/ice rescue out on river.
I too as a youngster was told had to have the belt in waders to keep water out. Was also told need hip boot or winter boots kicked off to swim..or would for sure drown. Boy scouts would have you blowing your pants up float on them..

Then in mid 1980s I got a chance to take a water survival class taught by old navy guy. That class changed my whole view on falling in water wearing hip boots, waders, even full fire fighting turn out gear. All of which I had been told would sink or drown me. I was the first person shoved in the pool the day wearing my industrial Black Rubber LaCrosse waders. No belt. Why me first ? Instructor ask if was any sinkers in class. I had my whole life been a person considered a sinker. My mom a very good swimmer couldn't not teach me to float for nothing..I did how ever learn to float that day. Both with and without my waders, hip boots and Fire Gear.

So to the original question? of belt or no belt? Yes a belt will help keep water out of waders and trap air in. So until the waders flood yes they can or may float you in a bad position. I would have to say it really is a personal choice. I don't need a belt to help hold my waders up so don't wear one.
Will flooded waders drag you down? they really shouldn't, but can if you fight them.
There is so much more to all this than I can even type here.

Panic is the usually the thing that causes people to drown when fall in wearing waders, hip boots, winter boots.
Next I would say in cold climates the killer is hypothermia. You just have to get out of the water get dry get warm.
In cold water time spent trying to remove boots or clothing. Is better spent with the focus on getting out of the water.

Regular rubber type hip boots, waders or even canvas waders alone will not sink a person. They actually can keep you a float and help you stay warm survive a fall in cold water..The big trick is to take the time in a warm water controlled area, to learn how to be in the water in your boots. It's like most every thing we do in the outdoors. Most things have to be practiced to become comfortable with doing.
It really is about staying calm, not panicking and getting your self in the right position in the water. That position is best described as kind of sitting in a chair, with your head up above water. What in a life jacket training class they call "Help Position"..
Not something you want to try to learn when the ice gives way and water is 32 degrees.

As for type of hip boots or waders? I would have to say if your wearing neoprene hip boots or waders. You pretty much have a type of life jack on. It's just on you legs and feet not your chest. That means you should in no way fully sink with neoprene hip boots or waders. You will of course float lower with hip boots just because there is less material than waders.
I also know from experience if wading in moving water. Neoprene waders being more buoyant than regular rubber or canvas. Will get you swept off you feet in shallower moving water because you have less weight on the bottom.
So like I said earlier I can't really do a class here typing it all. A person needs to learn their equipment in real time.
I've spent hours in a pool in both waders and full fire fighting gear. Many hours in various dive suits and rescue suits in the river.
I'm still learning new things all the time. Equipment and technology is improving and is better than ever.

I personally own both neoprene and canvas type waders I use. I don't always wear a float coat mentioned in one of the above post with either. Usually depends on weather what I'm doing.
I do wear a float coat with waders when water trapping if weather is cold. I do wear a float coat for cold weather fishing from boat and ice fishing. When I'm out on the ice with the rescue group doing what every. I often wear a 3/4 length float coat that is designed for cold weather immersion.
I own and have access to couple different type float coats. So yes I would say get one that would work for you if you can.
There are also as we all know dozens of different types of life jackets out there to chose from.
Much like traps in the truck don't catch critters.
Life jacket in truck or laying in bottom of boat can't float ya.
Got wear it.

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7018840
10/16/20 10:06 AM
10/16/20 10:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,087
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
^^^^^^^^
"Life jacket in truck or laying in bottom of boat can't float ya.
Got wear it
."

Exactly!
Two of my friends drowned while wearing chest waders, they had been using their PFD's for seat cushions.

People think they can take precaution measures when thing get dicey. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.
Mac' as you mentioned warm water practice is good, but usually when things go bad, the conditions are completely different than during any sort of practice; rough water, distance from shore or outside help, water current, and of course temperature. Many of the water immersion safety protocols assume someone will be around to rescue you, the problem for most outdoorsmen is that will not be the case.


My life is better than your vacation
Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7019167
10/16/20 06:30 PM
10/16/20 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 331
East Central Wi.
coyote addict Offline
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East Central Wi.
Look at it the way it happened to me years ago. I was shooting carp with the bow , I had a belt tight around my waist because I didn't have suspenders. I stepped on a slimy board that I could not see under water . Just like that my torso became a anchor and my feet were a bobber. never again have I ever put a belt on waders. I was one scared kid !


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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7019461
10/17/20 02:19 AM
10/17/20 02:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 6,712
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline OP
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Good info.


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Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7019516
10/17/20 07:37 AM
10/17/20 07:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 798
MI
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Cos Offline
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MI
Always wear the belt if youre in water deep enough to risk filling your waders.

When I was a teenager I had to swim off an island I was fishing from in the upper Connecticut when the hydro dam a mile upstream opened up unscheduled, and the warning lights didnt go off. I know the island gets completely submerged at high releases. Got swept off my feet instantly trying to wade back. I barely made it to shore, well downstream of where I went in. Without a belt Id have been in a bad spot.


Re: Chest wader waste ba [Re: AJE] #7020104
10/18/20 12:03 AM
10/18/20 12:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 6,712
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline OP
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Consensus seems to be more people would recommend wearing a belt


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