35cals that should have been popular
#7018871
10/16/20 11:23 AM
10/16/20 11:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,598 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Green County Wisconsin
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it seems when ever I talk to a 35 cal owner be it 35 rem , 358win , 35 wheelen there aren't really that many more 35s
the 35 owners think the round is great
great terminal performance on deer , hogs , bear , moose
true most of them are relatively short sub 150 yard woods hunters
I have a theory as to why not more of them
the 35rem in a Model 8 Rem was a great concept but it hit the market in 1906
a John Browning design it had to compete with his earlier designs the 1886 ,1892 ,1894 and 1895 lever that Winchester had made so many of
the 30-30 had been out since 1895 and with an 11 year head start and a mountain of 1894 rifles 35 rem had an up hill battle from day 1
also the 45-70 if something needed to be shot with a heavier than 30cal bullet there were a lot of 45-70 guns and ammo around near the turn of the century
35 rem is on the market a few years and along comes WWI
shift to war time production lots of 30-06 also born in 1906
post war surplus
then the depression not long after
coming out of the depression we are almost into WWII shift to war time production again and post WWII economics of guns , when you can buy a mauser from a barrel for 15 dollars or a re-barreled Mauser for a bit more in 30-06 other good cartridges have a very hard time competing.
people who had a 30-30 shot 30-30 people who needed a gun , Americans have always been fairly budget minded bought one of the many re-barreld guns in 30-06 or many have bought 303brit or 8mm mauser , they need a rifle that at 25-50 yards would shoot a deer and while heavy these guns were very reliable , plentiful and lasted a long time in civilian use
most people really only needed a few rounds to hunt and seldom fired more than 1 at an animal they knew what was within their ability and they waited for that shot.
also figure in by the 1950s the 740 and then 742 were on the market in 30-06 and other cartridge's
by the 1950s 308 was the new Mid power cartridge it's interesting you seldom see much for 308 rifles in the used rack , people who hunt them generally love them. I have to admit I fall in this class now.
308 is light enough in the recoil and heavy enough in the power on target to not need much else in the woods for deer , bear , hogs , moose at woods hunting distances.
looking at the power
35 rem 200gr 2080fps 1921 fpe
30-30 170gr 2200fps 1827fpe
8x57 196gr 2182fps 2027fpe
308w 180gr 2620fps 2743fpe
30-06 180gr 2700fps 2913fpe
358 win 200gr 2475fps 2720fpe
35wheelen 200gr 2675fps 3177fpe
30-30 has 95% the energy of 35rem
308win has 94% the energy of 30-06
358win is almost exactly the same as 308win
not to hard to see when rifles in 30cal are plentiful and ammo easy to find why 35 just didn't catch on the same way
just my ramblings on the idea
what are your thoughts ?
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018878
10/16/20 11:37 AM
10/16/20 11:37 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
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One thing for sure,guys that shoot the .35's are adament in their choice that it's a great round that never got the respect it deserved.
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018880
10/16/20 11:38 AM
10/16/20 11:38 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,598 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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I am sure it also had to do with what the purchasers were buying also , if Sears ordered 10K m94 in 30-30 a guy could order one from the catalog about as inexpensive as anything
there were likley gun shop owners who were 35 fans that lead to small pockets of 35 popularity
but I suspect the economics of it played a huge part in 30cal for hunting
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018897
10/16/20 11:52 AM
10/16/20 11:52 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
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It always seemed to me once the 30/30 captured the market the party was pretty much over.Yes in today's world there's a gazillion calibers to choose from it seems old fashioned but for the average Joe,deer hunting in the woods and swamps of the northeast it's all they needed.They weren't gun cranks that experimented with everything new,they stuck with what worked for them.They're the types that didn't compare ballistic charts they stuck with tradition and what filled the freezer.
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018904
10/16/20 11:58 AM
10/16/20 11:58 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
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Other calibers ,either the old timers or military surplus had followings because in many cases they were free,either war trophies or hand me downs.New calibers like the .35's just didn't catch on.That's my theory anyway
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: Bigfoot]
#7018909
10/16/20 12:03 PM
10/16/20 12:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,598 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Im quite fond of the 141 remington pump in .35 rem .and would like an AR10 in .358 win . I never understood why with the massive popularity of pump shotguns why more pump rifles didn't happen. another really underappreciated gun the pump rifle the only thing I can figure is most pump rifles bore the name Remington and anything Remington was always dealing with economic issues and often failure to really bring an awesome idea to fruition. 742 with an adjustable gas system . a bolt hold open not in the magazine and a few minor improvements to some components would have been an Awesome tool they were a good tool , with a great concept but when Remington wouldn't accept their shortcomings and resolve. it cost them. the 760 was and is a great tool , their price now reflects it. Remington even had the idea of the 7615 it looked promising but I think it competed with cheap and available AR-15 parts that has the benefit of being mill spec and made in massive quantities. they could have made a 7610 that used AR10 mags in popular short action rounds , but again it seemed for one reason or another it fell short again. bolt action rifles built to use the AR-15 and AR-10 mags enjoy reasonable success by a few different manufacturers
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 10/16/20 12:19 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018936
10/16/20 12:22 PM
10/16/20 12:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,598 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Don't forget the .350 Remington Magnum. I though about adding that to the list but though it was already dead Midway has 1 and only one ammunition for it 2 less than 35 rem that is listed it is of course out of stock no back order besides 223 rem which the army made common there are not a lot of cartridges with the REM in the name that have made great popularity. some of them were very good cartridges like 260rem 7mm rem mag , 357 rem mag and 44 rem mag have done very well mostly because other companies than Remington chambered their guns in them.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018938
10/16/20 12:25 PM
10/16/20 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333 Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29
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I feel very confident in my .35 Rem out to 200 yards. I don't at all believe it is a sub 150 yard rifle.
With handloading, you can increase the velocity of the .35 Rem, too. 2,200 fps with a 200 grainer is no sweat with modern powders and rifle. Also, the ability to shoot at stout 220 or even 250 grain bullet puts the 35 Rem where it is a reasonable choice for elk or even moose. Using the heavier bullet it has a noticeable increase in knockdown power over a .30-30.
What from Christ that soul can sever, Bound by everlasting bands? None shall take thee From the Strength of Israel's hands.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018939
10/16/20 12:26 PM
10/16/20 12:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,598 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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I wonder if some of it is the Beta VS VHS effect
Sony had the superior product but wanted to be the only maker of it
VHS was an inferior product that took a decade to get to the same 4 head audio quality as beta but won out being cheap and good enough for the average joe
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018940
10/16/20 12:27 PM
10/16/20 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333 Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29
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GREENCOUNTYPETE - I see my favorite gun magazine writer, Ed Hall, has retired from Fur-Fish-Game magazine. Maybe you should throw your hat in the ring to be their new gun editor.
What from Christ that soul can sever, Bound by everlasting bands? None shall take thee From the Strength of Israel's hands.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: Kart29]
#7018946
10/16/20 12:30 PM
10/16/20 12:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,598 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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I feel very confident in my .35 Rem out to 200 yards. I don't at all believe it is a sub 150 yard rifle.
With handloading, you can increase the velocity of the .35 Rem, too. 2,200 fps with a 200 grainer is no sweat with modern powders and rifle. Also, the ability to shoot at stout 220 or even 250 grain bullet puts the 35 Rem where it is a reasonable choice for elk or even moose. Using the heavier bullet it has a noticeable increase in knockdown power over a .30-30. I was actually referring to the hunters them selves and not the gun or round. Woods hunters who can seldom even see beyond 75 yards much less 150 yards and not that it wasn't a capable cartridge at 200 yards. while I can easily shoot 200 yards quite accurately especially if given a few seconds to take a knee I have yet to actually shoot a deer at greater than 125 yards and that was clear across a small hay field close to the longest area of visibility I see in most of my hunting.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 10/16/20 12:35 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7018981
10/16/20 01:23 PM
10/16/20 01:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,598 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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35 is a casters dream in many ways
lots of bearing surface and velocities not exceeding what lead can take especially lead with a gas check in 35rem or 358 win in full power cartridges
hard hitting one game
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: 35cals that should have been popular
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7019020
10/16/20 02:10 PM
10/16/20 02:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,337 The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
"HOSS"
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"HOSS"
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Posts: 20,337
The Hill Country of Texas
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As far as I am concerned, the 35 Rem is the perfect brush gun. I know James isn't a big believer in deer drives but my father in law put a lot of meat in the freezer blocking the end with his little 35 Rem lever gun.
“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.” Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
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