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Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Marty B] #7022738
10/20/20 09:49 PM
10/20/20 09:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,553
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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bblwi  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
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East-Central Wisconsin
The advantage many areas have is far better color then we have here in eastern WI. We have pretty straight haired, good sized and heavy coon here that for me if caught in early to mid November I would be about 40% western heavy, 50% north centrals with some Canadians and others tossed in. I have never had more than about 35-40% AB color however, most years I will be 25% to 30%. Many of my better colored coons are YOY coons and they won't be big enough or heavy enough until even past mid November in most seasons. I am getting very good at knowing size and better at grade, but still not very good on color or clarity. As I read some of the fur reports what would bother me even more is to catch some coyotes and go through the stinking job of putting those up and finding that the ones I have a $3 or $5 etc. I would feel far less disappointed to get $4 for a big coon then a couple bucks for a yote and I am very poor at trying to figure out the difference between a $15 yote versus, 30 or $45. I did send one up this year that was $3. So I know what they look like.

Bryce

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022740
10/20/20 09:51 PM
10/20/20 09:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,360
Wisconsin
M
MsgRet Offline
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MsgRet  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,360
Wisconsin
Recent antifur legislation in California is scary. They have a foot in the door. It is so very important to educate the public and encourage younger trappers. It's a broken record but price highs and lows are meaningless if the industry is not only dead but illegal.


Grandpa trapper
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022741
10/20/20 09:52 PM
10/20/20 09:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,021
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Trappers are the front line conservationists and we have a responsibility as stewards of the land to protect the resource.
If you cant live up to your responsibility like The great Rheal Chevalier once said-"a trapper that doesnt trap should be kicked right out of the bush".I agree with that 110%.
You cannot manage a trapground solely on the price of pelts if you want to have a healthy line when prices return.

And Marty B.,your statement about those in the industry being all gone in 10 years is as you say "horse pucky"
There are fur schools currently training young designers all over the world.

By the way-I am currently managing 3 registered traplines.

Last edited by Boco; 10/20/20 09:58 PM.
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Boco] #7022750
10/20/20 10:05 PM
10/20/20 10:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,224
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Boco
Trappers are the front line conservationists and we have a responsibility as stewards of the land to protect the resource.
If you cant live up to your responsibility like The great Rheal Chevalier once said-"a trapper that doesnt trap should be kicked right out of the bush".I agree with that 110%.
You cannot manage a trapground solely on the price of pelts if you want to have a healthy line when prices return.

And Marty B.,your statement about those in the industry being all gone in 10 years is as you say "horse pucky"
There are fur schools currently training young designers all over the world.

By the way-I am currently managing 3 registered traplines.


You'll be managing 5 or 10 soon. You are just the man for it. Real Trapper.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022757
10/20/20 10:13 PM
10/20/20 10:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,021
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
You got that right.But funny thing,traplines are selling real good right now-old guys getting out and younger trappers can see an opportunity to have their own nice big chunk of land to manage exclusively for as long as they want.And Fur managers turning over their traplines to their sons and daughters or grandchildren that will trap.
And the government has recently recognized the family connection to a trapground-you see-here trapping is about so much more than big money one time every 20 years.
it is about making your life on the land and having a healthy trapline so you can do well in the good years to help hold you over in the odd poor years,and living up to your responsibility as a manager of the resource for future generations.This also means not being a forest cleaner when prices go up just as much as trapping when prices are lower.
If you are not willing to do that step aside-there are plenty who want their piece of paradise.

Last edited by Boco; 10/20/20 10:14 PM.
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022761
10/20/20 10:17 PM
10/20/20 10:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 136
Ohio
HondaXR250 Offline
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HondaXR250  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 136
Ohio
City people outnumber us. Fur prices are gone forever, thanks to government, sheep, and technology...

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: HondaXR250] #7022775
10/20/20 10:34 PM
10/20/20 10:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,553
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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bblwi  Offline
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Posts: 7,553
East-Central Wisconsin
City dwellers have always been the market for fur and will be if the markets stay. We criticize the urban folks in many ways but without those billions of people buying fur, commodities and food raised in rural areas, the rural regions of the world would really be suffering.

BOCO I have some questions if you are willing and able to answer for me. If you can't disclose that is fine as well.
1. What is the range in size of say a typical registered trap line in say square miles or kilometers? About what would typical rates or fees be for a typical registered line?
2. Do most registered line holders have other full time occupations, or are self employed or can they manage the populations for the line with extended weekends or vacations?
3. I have viewed some video clips of some line cabins, etc. and the workload seems extensive and maybe expensive, for what the return(s) may be.
4. When you state you manage 3 registered lines does that mean you are the harvest manager for all three or do you organize the harvest with others?

Don't mean to be personal but have always been interested in how that system works.
There was a Canadian guide and trapper that moved near us that gave up a registered line when he married a person from this area and moved here. He was a taxidermist. I only was able to talk about the line system briefly once. He unfortunately passed away from cancer at a fairly young age.

Bryce

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022806
10/20/20 11:33 PM
10/20/20 11:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,021
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
BBWI,Traplines vary in size in different parts of the province.remote lines in the far north where animal densities are less are bigger some 1800 sq km.My trapline is 300 sq km and is at the southern boundary of the Far North.The other line is the same size and adjacent to it,and the other line is around 180sq km and is only 10 minutes by snowmachine from home to the near boundary.
Some native traplines are community traplines where anyone from the community can use the cabins and trap,fish hunt pick berries etc,just like on a normal registered trapline only not exclusive.There is no 01 trapper who calls the shots.
On a normal trapline the 01 is responsible for the management of the resource.He can do it himself or assign helpers,alone or in partnership with the 01 who will trap as he tells them.
Most helpers on registered traplines are family members,but not always.
The only fee is a yearly trapping licence.In order qualify to be able to trap and get a trapping licence you have to pass a 40 hour comprehensive fur management and conservation course which includes practical work like trapping and putting up fur.You have to pay for your course and will recieve a trapping manual if you pass.I dont know how much the course costs I think its around $250 which includes the manual.The manuals are used extensively by new trappers when constructing sets and learning the trade and studying the biology and habits of the animals in order to be a sucessful trapper.
Most trappers live and work close to their lines and manage the line on weekends and vacation days.I trapped more fur as a younger man and ran more and longer lines when I had a full time job than I am able to do now that I am old worn out and retired.
A lot of southern trappers that trap private land like you guys do,also have registered traplines in the north.These guys take a few weeks off here and there and go up and stay at their cabins and trap.Often in the fall they will hunt moose or deer,and trap their beaver quotas and snare some wolves.Later in the season they will go up again and trap marten lynx etc and do some ice fishing etc.This is often done as a family vacation type deal,similar to the old days when people lived all winter on traplines,home schooled their kids and everyone hunted and trapped including the kids.This is the family connection to the registered trapline system in Ontario.
I dont have any helpers on my trapline right now but my son daughter and wife always came and stayed at the cabins when they could back in the old days.My son has his own line now and I trap it mostly for him since he works away at the mine.I also trap my northern line and another line adjacent to it.
I take the quotas on all 3 lines for management purposes.
This is how it works in Ontario,I am unfamiliar with how other provinces administer their registered trapline systems.
In Ontario the Fur program is administered by the trappers themselves through the provincial trapping federation.
We are allowed a 600 sq ft base cabin with 2 ancillary buildings one for storage of equipment and the other for pelt preparation each 200 sq ft,and a privy.
We are also allowed one or two line cabins depending on the size of the line,each 400 sq ft with one ancillary building 200sq ft and a privy.
We are allowed to use the cabins year round for any uses,fishing,hunting,berry picking with family.any 02 trappers and their families can use the cabins also with permission from the 01.
The fur industry will always be alive in some form here,because of our trapping systems and our family connections to the land.

Last edited by Boco; 10/20/20 11:51 PM.
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Boco] #7022830
10/21/20 12:14 AM
10/21/20 12:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,553
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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Posts: 7,553
East-Central Wisconsin
Thank you very much Boco. Seems like a very well thought out and managed system. I am glad to see and somewhat surprised that there are so many other activities those with the registered lines can and do do throughout the year.

Bryce

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: bblwi] #7022831
10/21/20 12:20 AM
10/21/20 12:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 136
Ohio
HondaXR250 Offline
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HondaXR250  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 136
Ohio
Originally Posted by bblwi
City dwellers have always been the market for fur and will be if the markets stay. We criticize the urban folks in many ways but without those billions of people buying fur, commodities and food raised in rural areas, the rural regions of the world would really be suffering.


Keep telling yourself that. Those city people are the same ones saying real fur is murder and plastic fur is good. Electric cars are good, but diesel is bad. Rural folks will survive, as they have since cavemen times. Even if food became scarce, there is always non GMO, free range critters to eat in the city...

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022835
10/21/20 12:30 AM
10/21/20 12:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,021
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
I see more fur on city people than I do on farmers.

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Boco] #7022836
10/21/20 12:55 AM
10/21/20 12:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3,840
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Pike River Offline
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Boco
I see more fur on city people than I do on farmers.

Yup

Only industry I know of that producers seem to despise the majority of their consumers.



Dumb question Boco: What is a "01" and a "02"?

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022892
10/21/20 05:31 AM
10/21/20 05:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,884
Firth, Nebraska
jabNE Offline
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Posts: 5,884
Firth, Nebraska
Hey 1crazytrapper....Marty says we got just 10 years left before we are pushing up daisys.
I'm only 54...do I still try to run my 26th marathon in 2 weeks or should I just come over to your place and have a beer and forget about exercise?

II want to make sure my last 10 seasons are good ones.

grin


Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you a trapping license and that's pretty close.
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Boco] #7022951
10/21/20 07:03 AM
10/21/20 07:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,891
Pottawatamie co. IA
LLtrapper Offline
"The Coon Combine"
LLtrapper  Offline
"The Coon Combine"

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,891
Pottawatamie co. IA
Originally Posted by Boco
There is fairweather trappers and there is real trappers.
Fairweather trappers come out of the woodwork due to greed,real trappers keep plugging away during booms,busts and the vast majority of the time when prices are "fair"


Maybe Canadians keep trapping hard when you cannot make money. Might be a socialist thing. Most longliners are hunting and fishing this winter. I know you can sell a couple things you make or tan but that market is not a huge one here. LLL


Market analysis and marketing advice free. PM for info.:)
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Dirt] #7022962
10/21/20 07:21 AM
10/21/20 07:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,523
MN
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Posts: 1,523
MN
Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by walleye101


Yet, as a number of people mentioned Groenwold is still moving (buying and selling) product at very low prices, and some are applauding his business model. While it is encouraging that some fur is still moving, it makes you wonder if this will be the final nail in the auction house and competative marketing of fur.


His business model relies on not for profit suppliers (TJ103). He has those and he can count on them. Won't help you.


My concern is that this business model will be the end of profitable trapping. As he stated in the bobcat marketing thread he is in the business of selling fur for whatever it brings. He makes adjustments on the buying end to keep this model profitable. And it appears most are jumping on board the cash in hand model no matter how low the prices go.

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7022992
10/21/20 07:44 AM
10/21/20 07:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,318
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
Sometime In Dec I want all of you to go out to your local Wallmart and see how many persons are wearing any kind of fur garments. The fur market has been dead In ten US for a long time.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7023017
10/21/20 08:15 AM
10/21/20 08:15 AM
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Posts: 11,054
pa
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hippie Offline
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pa
No one mention ranches?

Ranch fur single handedly flooded the market the last time and probably will again if the market goes back up.
Wild fur production is minute compared to the tens of millions the ranches put out several years ago. And NAFA rode to the soup line with them.

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7023028
10/21/20 08:25 AM
10/21/20 08:25 AM
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Posts: 1,317
PA
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lumberjack391 Offline
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PA
If we think real hard about it, most of us havent made money in the last 10-15 years- depending on how hard you push the pencil LOL. My pencil got pushed so hard it broke. I started losing money even on a short line recently and wont do it anymore. Keeping wildlife in check is a novel idea but I need paid at least a little to do it. The PGC gets a vechile, fuel card, clothing, paycheck and whatever else I may be missing - they can do it......

Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Ave] #7023033
10/21/20 08:27 AM
10/21/20 08:27 AM
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Posts: 12,544
Wheaton Ks
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lee steinmeyer Offline
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Wheaton Ks
Gary, wallyworld has never been the place where people wear fur to....ever. I have before, but I'd bet I'm one of the few. Go out to a swanky resturant, and your chances improve immensely! lol


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Is the fur industry over? [Re: Pike River] #7023051
10/21/20 08:46 AM
10/21/20 08:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 855
MI
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Cos Offline
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MI
Originally Posted by Pike River
Originally Posted by Boco
I see more fur on city people than I do on farmers.

Yup

Only industry I know of that producers seem to despise the majority of their consumers.



PR, I think thats a universal sentiment in most any industry where the consumers have a higher socioeconomic status than the producers.

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