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Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7032937
10/30/20 07:30 PM
10/30/20 07:30 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,655
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
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Wanna Be  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,655
SW Georgia
Whatís sad is I think Iím worth more dead than alive!!!

Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7032979
10/30/20 08:11 PM
10/30/20 08:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,199
TN/OH
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RM trapper Offline
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RM trapper  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,199
TN/OH
If I'd quit hunting in 4 different states and having kids I'd probably be able to retire early, but I've watched to many men save their whole life then retire only to not feel like leaving the house. I'm going to enjoy the things I live to do now while I'm young enough to do it. We still put 15% in 401k but if I would cut back on my hunting trips I could probably but up 25%. My best friends dad saved his whole life and has came from a poor farmers son to a multimillionaire but he doesn't want or feel like doing anything, and hardly goes more than 5 miles from his house. He told me to enjoy life to the fullest while I had my health so I'm trying to do that

Re: Retirement. [Re: Mark June] #7033027
10/30/20 08:46 PM
10/30/20 08:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,523
Pa.
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Bigbrownie Offline
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Bigbrownie  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,523
Pa.
Originally Posted by Mark June
You need 1,000,000 in the bank to draw $40,000 @ 4% is what I teach our children.
They usually say, "$40,000?" What's that buy?

Well then, start early, save more often I guess.
grin

Using a 4 % return rate is very reasonable. I have money heavily invested in some equity accounts, but I never draw from those returns. Those accounts have had great returns, but I would never set myself up to live on returns from equities alone. Look back in time, to the Nixon and GWB eras....the S& P indexes were in negative territory. I began investing in 1991, and yes, for the most part, markets have been up. But you know bear markets are out there.

My accounts at Lincoln and Stifel Nicolas pay out monthly dividend checks...those accounts average a 4 to 6.5 percent return. There is still a risk of loss of principle , even at that rate.

If an money manager starts telling you heíll get you 10% returns, better find another guy.

Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033051
10/30/20 09:04 PM
10/30/20 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
B
Bob Offline
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Bob  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
The best way to get the best returns is never invest in anything you donít fully understand, and research the funds for yourself before investing. Your ďmoney managerĒ should do nothing more than teach you how investments work and execute the transaction. Never blindly trust your money to a ďmanagerĒ

Last edited by Bob; 10/30/20 09:05 PM.

"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Retirement. [Re: Bigbrownie] #7033056
10/30/20 09:06 PM
10/30/20 09:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 11,086
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 11,086
ny
Originally Posted by Bigbrownie
Originally Posted by Mark June
You need 1,000,000 in the bank to draw $40,000 @ 4% is what I teach our children.
They usually say, "$40,000?" What's that buy?

Well then, start early, save more often I guess.
grin

Using a 4 % return rate is very reasonable. I have money heavily invested in some equity accounts, but I never draw from those returns. Those accounts have had great returns, but I would never set myself up to live on returns from equities alone. Look back in time, to the Nixon and GWB eras....the S& P indexes were in negative territory. I began investing in 1991, and yes, for the most part, markets have been up. But you know bear markets are out there.

My accounts at Lincoln and Stifel Nicolas pay out monthly dividend checks...those accounts average a 4 to 6.5 percent return. There is still a risk of loss of principle , even at that rate.

If an money manager starts telling you he’ll get you 10% returns, better find another guy.

Back in the late 70s,,I had a bank CD that was yielding 16%.Youl never see that again.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033104
10/30/20 09:38 PM
10/30/20 09:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,938
MN >>>
T-Rex Offline
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T-Rex  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,938
MN >>>
anyone remember Bernie Madoff?

I do. He had a fund that was so far superior to anything else at the time, that you needed contacts to get in. Even then you could only deal with him during a few short windows per year. He was getting results of around 10% which was way above anything else at the time. I was able to get in, and was the envy of a lot of high profile local investors.

To make a very long story short: His victims actually made out pretty well compared to other investors, due to one particular government investigator that ruthlessly went after his assets after his conviction.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033131
10/30/20 10:01 PM
10/30/20 10:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
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Bob Offline
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Bob  Offline
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Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
T-Rex, if you held a simple S&P 500 fund over the last 50 years you have averaged between 10 and 11 percent. Some years less. Some years more. You can, if you are interested in doing your homework, find mutual funds that have a 30 year average of 11-12 percent. Your ďdoom and gloomĒ outlook on investing is opposed by facts and history.

Some here have said that our political climate, economy, etc are in a place weíve never seen before. That is true and could in the short term hurt your portfolio. Which is why you should have 25% of your portfolio invested in international mutual funds.

If this point in time are as bad as some of you are saying then there has never been a better time to begin investing. And I donít mean single stocks, thatís a fools game. I mean growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international mutual funds. 25% in each category. If the market is as bad as you think, youíll be getting those funds on sale. When the world gets back to some sense of normalcy and the economy takes back off again youíll enjoy nice gains on them. Personally I think that our markets have already seen the corrections that the pandemic and political scene is going to cause. I think the results from Tuesday might cause a correction that lasts about a week. After that it will resume its upward trajectory.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033276
10/31/20 05:39 AM
10/31/20 05:39 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,249
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
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Steven 49er  Offline
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,249
mn north of blakely
Be careful expecting those high returns. We have been in a monumental money creation period that is based on debt for quite some time. That will not continue forever.

Diversity is going to be important.

Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033358
10/31/20 07:29 AM
10/31/20 07:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,840
MT
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snowy Offline
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,840
MT
I'm very heavy in the markets and check at the end of each month where I'm at and never look other then that. As of today I'm up 3.17% from January 1st 2020. Looking at the year so far, I have been as low as -8% to as high as +8% through 10 months so far for the year.

IMO, it isn't so much what you contribute, but it is the time/years of compounding that makes the difference. Time, length of time you are invested is critical for success.


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Retirement. [Re: Bob] #7033403
10/31/20 08:12 AM
10/31/20 08:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,938
MN >>>
T-Rex Offline
trapper
T-Rex  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,938
MN >>>
Originally Posted by Bob
T-Rex, if you held a simple S&P 500 fund over the last 50 years you have averaged between 10 and 11 percent. Some years less. Some years more. You can, if you are interested in doing your homework, find mutual funds that have a 30 year average of 11-12 percent. Your ďdoom and gloomĒ outlook on investing is opposed by facts and history.
Yeah, in hindsight I could have done that. It probably would have paid off better than looking for that filthy rich heiress that I never found.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Retirement. [Re: Bob] #7033464
10/31/20 09:59 AM
10/31/20 09:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,013
Oklahoma
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,013
Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Bob
T-Rex, if you held a simple S&P 500 fund over the last 50 years you have averaged between 10 and 11 percent. Some years less. Some years more. You can, if you are interested in doing your homework, find mutual funds that have a 30 year average of 11-12 percent. Your ďdoom and gloomĒ outlook on investing is opposed by facts and history.

Some here have said that our political climate, economy, etc are in a place weíve never seen before. That is true and could in the short term hurt your portfolio. Which is why you should have 25% of your portfolio invested in international mutual funds.

If this point in time are as bad as some of you are saying then there has never been a better time to begin investing. And I donít mean single stocks, thatís a fools game. I mean growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international mutual funds. 25% in each category. If the market is as bad as you think, youíll be getting those funds on sale. When the world gets back to some sense of normalcy and the economy takes back off again youíll enjoy nice gains on them. Personally I think that our markets have already seen the corrections that the pandemic and political scene is going to cause. I think the results from Tuesday might cause a correction that lasts about a week. After that it will resume its upward trajectory.



Bob is back. Everyone get ready to be rich.

Your parroted recipe for fund diversification is not one size fits all. You telling someone in their 50s or 60s to get aggressive in the market is internet expert malpractice and, again, demonstrates your lack of experience.

Again, I applaud you saving and investing but keep your day job.


MOLON LABE
Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033507
10/31/20 10:48 AM
10/31/20 10:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
B
Bob Offline
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Bob  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
I havenít told anyone to invest aggressively. You havenít been paying attention. Growth mutual funds and large cap slow and steady funds. Growth and income are medium growth dividend paying stock. Aggressive growth is the only aggressive investment of the bunch, small cap stock. International can be whatever aggressive level you choose.

I havenít said there is one size fits all. I clearly said that you should NEVER invest in anything you donít fully understand and/or are uncomfortable with. If YOU think a particular fund is too risky, donít invest in it. There are thousands of funds to choose from. Surely there are 3 or 4 for everyone

What is a plain, true fact, no matter how you spin it, is that ALL of the folks who have retired with enough savings to live comfortably have one thing in common. They saved and invested in the stock market one way or another. Save and invest, save and invest. If you do these things wisely youíll have money at retirement. If you donít, then you wonít.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Retirement. [Re: Bob] #7033527
10/31/20 11:16 AM
10/31/20 11:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,013
Oklahoma
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,013
Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Bob
I havenít told anyone to invest aggressively. You havenít been paying attention. Growth mutual funds and large cap slow and steady funds. Growth and income are medium growth dividend paying stock. Aggressive growth is the only aggressive investment of the bunch, small cap stock. International can be whatever aggressive level you choose.

I havenít said there is one size fits all. I clearly said that you should NEVER invest in anything you donít fully understand and/or are uncomfortable with. If YOU think a particular fund is too risky, donít invest in it. There are thousands of funds to choose from. Surely there are 3 or 4 for everyone

What is a plain, true fact, no matter how you spin it, is that ALL of the folks who have retired with enough savings to live comfortably have one thing in common. They saved and invested in the stock market one way or another. Save and invest, save and invest. If you do these things wisely youíll have money at retirement. If you donít, then you wonít.


Fortunately I don't need you to explain mutual funds, or anything investing, to me. I have been paying attention to an inexperienced keyboard financial planner spouting his opinions on a trapping website. Yes, if you are telling, or implying by omission, a guy in his 50's or 60's, or anyone for that matter, to invest all of his money in the market--that is aggressive. Way too aggressive. Maybe I missed where you copied and pasted something about cash, bonds, real estate or other assets--portfolio diversification.

I have complimented you plenty on your own efforts. You estimated earlier that you will have $600K in two 401Ks by the time you are 50. That is good, but does not demonstrate proficiency in anything other than saving and maybe picking some index funds.


MOLON LABE
Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033553
10/31/20 11:56 AM
10/31/20 11:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
B
Bob Offline
trapper
Bob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
Real estate is a great investment if one can afford to do it with cash. In fact your cash on cash return on real estate is almost always better than the stock market. Real estate stocks. REITs etc are just as risky as anything. One should always have 3-6 months living expenses in cash. Anything more than that is a mistake, inflation is devaluing your money. Itís the worst possible way to keep your money. Bonds and CDs will make you no money. At best theyíll keep up with inflation. If you plan on burning every dollar you have and then immediately dying thatís fine.

I do not expect anyone to simply take my advice and invest based on my opinion. As Iíve said several times, everyone needs to be investing. Thatís bottom line. What you invest in needs to be a decision YOU make. You need to research funds, rates of return, investment vehicles, work with a professional to learn how all of the things work, and then invest in what you believe in. Never invest in anything you donít fully understand, and never stop growing your knowledge of investments. Review your investments at least annually and make changes based on new information youíve learned if needed.

Everyone needs to work with a professional who takes the time to educate you so that you can make these decisions. If your financial guy tries to push you into anything, find a new guy.

Iíll just say one more thing, then Iíll leave it be. Anyone in the United States can retire wealthy. ANYONE. All it takes is caring enough to make a plan and stick to it, as you go you can educate yourself and adjust the plan as needed. Your income is your most valuable wealth building tool, and you cannot use it to build wealth if youíre giving it away in the form of interest on loans so avoid debt like the plague.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Retirement. [Re: Bob] #7033568
10/31/20 12:10 PM
10/31/20 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,013
Oklahoma
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,013
Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Bob
Real estate is a great investment if one can afford to do it with cash. In fact your cash on cash return on real estate is almost always better than the stock market. Real estate stocks. REITs etc are just as risky as anything. One should always have 3-6 months living expenses in cash. Anything more than that is a mistake, inflation is devaluing your money. Itís the worst possible way to keep your money. Bonds and CDs will make you no money. At best theyíll keep up with inflation. If you plan on burning every dollar you have and then immediately dying thatís fine.

I do not expect anyone to simply take my advice and invest based on my opinion. As Iíve said several times, everyone needs to be investing. Thatís bottom line. What you invest in needs to be a decision YOU make. You need to research funds, rates of return, investment vehicles, work with a professional to learn how all of the things work, and then invest in what you believe in. Never invest in anything you donít fully understand, and never stop growing your knowledge of investments. Review your investments at least annually and make changes based on new information youíve learned if needed.

Everyone needs to work with a professional who takes the time to educate you so that you can make these decisions. If your financial guy tries to push you into anything, find a new guy.

Iíll just say one more thing, then Iíll leave it be. Anyone in the United States can retire wealthy. ANYONE. All it takes is caring enough to make a plan and stick to it, as you go you can educate yourself and adjust the plan as needed. Your income is your most valuable wealth building tool, and you cannot use it to build wealth if youíre giving it away in the form of interest on loans so avoid debt like the plague.


I have hogs to go kill and am done trying to explain this to you. Talk to me when you're 50.

Until then, I did enjoy the Captain Obvious motivational speech--with some bad advice sprinkled in.


MOLON LABE
Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033570
10/31/20 12:13 PM
10/31/20 12:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 29,919
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
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B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 29,919
james bay frontierOnt.
Its good to have a lot of cash you can lend out at exorbitantly high intrest rates.
The intrest rates are high because you have to pay Vinnie the collector on occasion.

Re: Retirement. [Re: Bob] #7033602
10/31/20 01:02 PM
10/31/20 01:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,505
Suffolk new york
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Miley Offline
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Posts: 1,505
Suffolk new york
Originally Posted by Bob
You are not financially ready to retire. I can tell that just by your posts on here. If you want to retire youíre going to have to live on nothing and start saving aggressively In an IRA or 401k for the next five to ten years. And I mean aggressively, the legal maximum the government will allow, which I believe This year is 18,000 a year in a 401k and 7,000 a year in an IRA. I think you can even do a little extra at your age as catch up.

Young people on here, take note. 60 might seem way far away, but you gotta start saving now if youíre ever going to retire. This would be a much different conversation if coonman had saved 15 percent of his income in a 401k for the last 30 years. He would be a millionaire. He wouldnít have to worry about his truck breaking down, cause he could just go pay cash for a brand new one. He could never work another day in his life if he felt like it.

Coonman, Iím not trying to be down on you. I just want the young folks here to understand that THEY control their future and retirement, not the government or social security.

Originally Posted by Bob
You are not financially ready to retire. I can tell that just by your posts on here. If you want to retire youíre going to have to live on nothing and start saving aggressively In an IRA or 401k for the next five to ten years. And I mean aggressively, the legal maximum the government will allow, which I believe This year is 18,000 a year in a 401k and 7,000 a year in an IRA. I think you can even do a little extra at your age as catch up.

Young people on here, take note. 60 might seem way far away, but you gotta start saving now if youíre ever going to retire. This would be a much different conversation if coonman had saved 15 percent of his income in a 401k for the last 30 years. He would be a millionaire. He wouldnít have to worry about his truck breaking down, cause he could just go pay cash for a brand new one. He could never work another day in his life if he felt like it.

Coonman, Iím not trying to be down on you. I just want the young folks here to understand that THEY control their future and retirement, not the government or social security.

Excellent advice! You can not make it up on the back end. Starting early ,compounding is your friend!

Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033604
10/31/20 01:03 PM
10/31/20 01:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,585
pa
H
hippie Offline
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H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,585
pa
To save 15% of my 12 buck an hour jobs when I was starting out, I'd have had to move back in with my parents.

Reality is, a major portion of people can't save 5% and start a family in today's world.

Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033625
10/31/20 01:36 PM
10/31/20 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
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Bob Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,700
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
The only thing keeping people from living on a budget and bettering thier situation is the person they see in the mirror. Self discipline is lacking and keeping up with the joneses has never been worse than it is today thanks to social media. These days people who adhere to a budget are the weird ones. Most people spend every penny they make. Then they get a raise and immediately spend the raise because they can ďaffordĒ it.car payments, credit card payments, financing the latest iPhone, heck people are even financing pets these days. Then they get fed the line that the average joe canít get ahead these days. People sit there and wonder where their money went instead of telling it what to do because they just swipe that card instead of creating a budget and adhering to it religiously.

I canít explain it as well as some but itís called the scarcity mentality in psychiatric terms.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Retirement. [Re: coonman220] #7033628
10/31/20 01:39 PM
10/31/20 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,585
pa
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hippie Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,585
pa
If it wasn't for being in debt until I was in my 40's, I wouldn't have had a business of my own. Your trying to paint with a broad brush that only fits a few people.

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