Danny, your 3 yr old story is kinda ridiculous. For one thing God didn't throw in a devil he created angels and gave them and Adam and eve the gift of free will and some chose to rebel. And Its more like putting ADULTS in a room of candy and good food and saying just don't eat the reeses peanut butter cups ok? (How many times has a parent told you growing up "dont eat whatever its for supper" mine have.) And then the devil lied to them and said that God was lying and just didn't want them to be happy and that they should listen the devil instead. Kinda sounds like every atheist ever "Oh I'm so smart I know that God is a lie" smart or decived?

But you are not simplifying it - you are grossly misstating it. If you were a scholar of Christianity, I think you would know that. If you do know that, I can only assume that your gross and intentional statement can only be an intentional insult - as was much of your original post

If you were a scholar of religions in general, not specifically Christianity, then surely you would not be assuming all global beliefs in a god or gods involves an eternal reward or punishment in an afterlife.

It seems to me, from your own words, that your beliefs are built on "likelihood" and "hope". I'm not going to try to change your beliefs. That's far beyond my powers. I'll just say that I admire your faith and leave it at that.

Your right I re-read my original post and it was insulting, I was having a very heated discussion on this subject (as it usually comes up around this time of year) prior to posting. I'm sorry for offending some folks and thanks to those that posted some good discussions / comments

I'm going to tell you about myself. The hardest thing I do is not talk about God to my family. If I die I want them to be able to find some comfort in thinking I may believe. When my Brother died that was one of the main things that got my Mom through, believing he may have believed. Personally I think it may be better to remain quiet and give hope to those left behind.

That's an awesome way to look at this^^^
Kudos to you.

I think your most likely right Donner

As a believer I didn't see anything insulting about the Op's original post, just a huge misconception regarding what Christianity teaches. However, I can understand the reason for his misconception. The notion that you gain eternal life by being good is actually perpetuated by some people who claim to be Christians.
As far as I am aware of, Christianity is the only belief that teaches that there is absolutely no way that you can ever be good enough or earn your way to salvation.
The entire concept of Christianity is counterintuitive to the natural way we think, ie. "I do good, I deserve good".
"I do good, I deserve good" is the driving force behind every other religion though.

No I understand what Christianity teaches, that was the reason for the apology, I went about the conversation in a hostile manner. As others have stated some opinions may be best kept to ourselves

It's nice to have an outlet. Better to blow a pressure relief valve on ole Tman than blow one at a family gathering. Because you do not believe it should not mean you cannot speak out, it's just not worth sabotaging personal relationships over or leaving friends and family with no hope if you kick off suddenly.

The hard one is women... I will not lie to my wife (should I marry) and I will not lie to someone I view as a potential wife, they are the conundrum to all this for me.

My wife is very religious and we have had very good discussions about this topic it can be done with respect for each other and without attacks. We respect each others positions and that's what I feel is important

I " believe" however I do not believe in organized religion, me and my god have our own arrangement so to speak, makes me feel good knowing that he's on my side, hope you find your god at some point, gives me comfort.

Sometimes i think they made up the whole devil thing (very interesting to read about though who ever came up with the various ideas) to scare people into believing a religion. Without fear its very hard to control people.

Heck may all these so called (Gods and heavens) are the form of matter (what we can see in outer space) and the devil is the form of black matter ( what we can't see but can still prove mathematically). Your really gonna need to enjoy astronomy to understand this one and use it as possible explanation

I'm with you there. You can respect the person even if you don't respect their beliefs.

I got turned down by a girl that seemed perfect in nearly every other way. I respect her decision but it kind of turned me off to the whole "Have you given your life to Jesus crowd" that I grew up with and is a major reason I will be going to a orthodox church when Covid is gone.

Her decision may have been based on the biblical teaching of being equally yoked with another believer.

I believe God gave us free will. The free will allows us to have whatever belief we choose. I have no fault with anyone's belief. I do believe that some "churchy" folks can be off putting. I am of a mind that religion is cultural. I also believe there is one true God. He created the heavens and the earth and everything in them and on them. I believe we "humans" are created in his image. We don't all look the same especially some of us trappers but all humans share similar traits. I also believe that God sent his only son Jesus to earth and he was human like us the ones he created in his image. I believe Jesus walked among us and shared God's good news with us and that God allowed us to chastise him, nail him to a cross until he died. I believe he was buried and rose again and went back to heaven to welcome us when our time here is done. Ok now, that's what I believe.but not how I get to heaven. God is our God no matter what. Weather you believe him him or not. What gets you the keys to the kingdom so to speak is FAITH. There is no possible way that anyone can say for sure if anything in the bible is true or sensored, but if any of has faith that God sent his son to be crucified in exchange for our sins and accepts Jesus as our savior, then by Faith, through GRACE and ask forgiveness for our sins we are saved and granted eternity in heaven. I as a believer am not here to convince you of my beliefs or faith, but I am directed to witness to all that I am a sinner and that through Gods Grace I am saved. Some call it a profession of Faith. Those are my beliefs. If you don't believe it's fine. I also believe that God will continue to reveal himself to you at different times during your time on earth up to and including your final breath. I was told a joke by a preacher one time that has stuck by me for many years. The gist of it is That if a non believer is right and I am wrong then the worst part is that I lived a full and good life and when I die that is it nothing after, However, if I am right and the non believer is wrong, ETERNITY is a long time to have to deal with that decision. God bless all and I look forward to more discussion on this topic.

Wild_Wi, and other non believers

I was like you and had similar thoughts in my early 20s. I would ask people questions and did not hear enough answers that could convince me. Someone gave me a book called signature of god by grant jefferys. It was a book that with today’s science it proved the Bible was written by the holy spirt and could not be written by man in that timeframe of the world. That book sold me.

My offer to you and any other non believer is if your willing to read the book, send me a pm and I will mail you the book for free, no strings attached. All I want in return is for you to read and then believe what ever you want to.

When was it written? I ask because a friend sent me a book "one heartbeat away" by Mark Cahill. I told her I would read it but it is tough to get through, the claims he makes to refute science are so weak or outdated and then he uses those claims to further his arguments, its just tough to get through it.

Edit- Cahill's book was written in 05 and science has moved forward enough since then to totally dismantle some of his claims. (Neanderthals are not real for example)

Maybe Donnersurvivor is a "believer"; just sayin.