Re: Anyone like me
[Re: danny clifton]
#7051615
11/16/20 08:00 AM
11/16/20 08:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,399 wisconsin
cowboy2005
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,399
wisconsin
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We may never know the origin of life or our planet. We may never understand gravity. We may never know how big outer space is or how it originated.
Religion is without a doubt cultural. People choose a faith from what they are taught as kids by their parents and by those in their community.
Some people look around and say the mysteries of life can only be explained by the supernatural. Some people look around and say those mysteries are not explainable yet, may never be explainable, and are fine with not knowing.
Creating a paradise then putting two completely innocent people in it, then tossing in a devil, seems a bit out there to me. Kinda like putting a couple 3 year olds in a room with a big bowl of candy. Tell them no candy and leave the room. Watch through the key hole till they eat some. Run into the room and beat them horribly for disobedience and tell them for the rest of their lives how they are unworthy of your love because of it.
I guess I never have been too good at becoming part of the herd. Probably why I have rejected the whole Chinese virus danger that the TV has been spewing out for months. I have a bad habit of looking out the window and reaching my own conclusions. Danny, your 3 yr old story is kinda ridiculous. For one thing God didn't throw in a devil he created angels and gave them and Adam and eve the gift of free will and some chose to rebel. And Its more like putting ADULTS in a room of candy and good food and saying just don't eat the reeses peanut butter cups ok? (How many times has a parent told you growing up "dont eat whatever its for supper" mine have.) And then the devil lied to them and said that God was lying and just didn't want them to be happy and that they should listen the devil instead. Kinda sounds like every atheist ever "Oh I'm so smart I know that God is a lie" smart or decived?
Last edited by cowboy2005; 11/16/20 08:19 AM.
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Wild_WI]
#7051727
11/16/20 10:47 AM
11/16/20 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333 Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333
Hancock Co., Indiana
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Yeah I get it, in another life time I was a religious scholar I was just simplifying it But you are not simplifying it - you are grossly misstating it. If you were a scholar of Christianity, I think you would know that. If you do know that, I can only assume that your gross and intentional statement can only be an intentional insult - as was much of your original post If you were a scholar of religions in general, not specifically Christianity, then surely you would not be assuming all global beliefs in a god or gods involves an eternal reward or punishment in an afterlife. It seems to me, from your own words, that your beliefs are built on "likelihood" and "hope". I'm not going to try to change your beliefs. That's far beyond my powers. I'll just say that I admire your faith and leave it at that.
What from Christ that soul can sever, Bound by everlasting bands? None shall take thee From the Strength of Israel's hands.
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Wild_WI]
#7051754
11/16/20 11:28 AM
11/16/20 11:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570 MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570
MN
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Your right I re-read my original post and it was insulting, I was having a very heated discussion on this subject (as it usually comes up around this time of year) prior to posting. I'm sorry for offending some folks and thanks to those that posted some good discussions / comments I'm going to tell you about myself. The hardest thing I do is not talk about God to my family. If I die I want them to be able to find some comfort in thinking I may believe. When my Brother died that was one of the main things that got my Mom through, believing he may have believed. Personally I think it may be better to remain quiet and give hope to those left behind.
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#7051757
11/16/20 11:31 AM
11/16/20 11:31 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,285 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,285
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Your right I re-read my original post and it was insulting, I was having a very heated discussion on this subject (as it usually comes up around this time of year) prior to posting. I'm sorry for offending some folks and thanks to those that posted some good discussions / comments I'm going to tell you about myself. The hardest thing I do is not talk about God to my family. If I die I want them to be able to find some comfort in thinking I may believe. When my Brother died that was one of the main things that got my Mom through, believing he may have believed. Personally I think it may be better to remain quiet and give hope to those left behind. That's an awesome way to look at this^^^ Kudos to you.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Wild_WI]
#7051768
11/16/20 11:44 AM
11/16/20 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,200 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,200
Alaska and Washington State
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As a believer I didn't see anything insulting about the Op's original post, just a huge misconception regarding what Christianity teaches. However, I can understand the reason for his misconception. The notion that you gain eternal life by being good is actually perpetuated by some people who claim to be Christians. As far as I am aware of, Christianity is the only belief that teaches that there is absolutely no way that you can ever be good enough or earn your way to salvation. The entire concept of Christianity is counterintuitive to the natural way we think, ie. "I do good, I deserve good". "I do good, I deserve good" is the driving force behind every other religion though.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Wild_WI]
#7051773
11/16/20 11:54 AM
11/16/20 11:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570 MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570
MN
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No I understand what Christianity teaches, that was the reason for the apology, I went about the conversation in a hostile manner. As others have stated some opinions may be best kept to ourselves It's nice to have an outlet. Better to blow a pressure relief valve on ole Tman than blow one at a family gathering. Because you do not believe it should not mean you cannot speak out, it's just not worth sabotaging personal relationships over or leaving friends and family with no hope if you kick off suddenly. The hard one is women... I will not lie to my wife (should I marry) and I will not lie to someone I view as a potential wife, they are the conundrum to all this for me.
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Wild_WI]
#7051995
11/16/20 04:33 PM
11/16/20 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333 Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333
Hancock Co., Indiana
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My wife is very religious and we have had very good discussions about this topic it can be done with respect for each other and without attacks. We respect each others positions and that's what I feel is important I'm with you there. You can respect the person even if you don't respect their beliefs.
What from Christ that soul can sever, Bound by everlasting bands? None shall take thee From the Strength of Israel's hands.
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Kart29]
#7052030
11/16/20 05:27 PM
11/16/20 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570 MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570
MN
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My wife is very religious and we have had very good discussions about this topic it can be done with respect for each other and without attacks. We respect each others positions and that's what I feel is important I'm with you there. You can respect the person even if you don't respect their beliefs. I got turned down by a girl that seemed perfect in nearly every other way. I respect her decision but it kind of turned me off to the whole "Have you given your life to Jesus crowd" that I grew up with and is a major reason I will be going to a orthodox church when Covid is gone.
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Wild_WI]
#7052547
11/17/20 12:45 AM
11/17/20 12:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,552 Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
turkn8rtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,552
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
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I believe God gave us free will. The free will allows us to have whatever belief we choose. I have no fault with anyone's belief. I do believe that some "churchy" folks can be off putting. I am of a mind that religion is cultural. I also believe there is one true God. He created the heavens and the earth and everything in them and on them. I believe we "humans" are created in his image. We don't all look the same especially some of us trappers but all humans share similar traits. I also believe that God sent his only son Jesus to earth and he was human like us the ones he created in his image. I believe Jesus walked among us and shared God's good news with us and that God allowed us to chastise him, nail him to a cross until he died. I believe he was buried and rose again and went back to heaven to welcome us when our time here is done. Ok now, that's what I believe.but not how I get to heaven. God is our God no matter what. Weather you believe him him or not. What gets you the keys to the kingdom so to speak is FAITH. There is no possible way that anyone can say for sure if anything in the bible is true or sensored, but if any of has faith that God sent his son to be crucified in exchange for our sins and accepts Jesus as our savior, then by Faith, through GRACE and ask forgiveness for our sins we are saved and granted eternity in heaven. I as a believer am not here to convince you of my beliefs or faith, but I am directed to witness to all that I am a sinner and that through Gods Grace I am saved. Some call it a profession of Faith. Those are my beliefs. If you don't believe it's fine. I also believe that God will continue to reveal himself to you at different times during your time on earth up to and including your final breath. I was told a joke by a preacher one time that has stuck by me for many years. The gist of it is That if a non believer is right and I am wrong then the worst part is that I lived a full and good life and when I die that is it nothing after, However, if I am right and the non believer is wrong, ETERNITY is a long time to have to deal with that decision. God bless all and I look forward to more discussion on this topic.
"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: Jacks]
#7052589
11/17/20 02:03 AM
11/17/20 02:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570 MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,570
MN
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Wild_Wi, and other non believers
I was like you and had similar thoughts in my early 20s. I would ask people questions and did not hear enough answers that could convince me. Someone gave me a book called signature of god by grant jefferys. It was a book that with today’s science it proved the Bible was written by the holy spirt and could not be written by man in that timeframe of the world. That book sold me.
My offer to you and any other non believer is if your willing to read the book, send me a pm and I will mail you the book for free, no strings attached. All I want in return is for you to read and then believe what ever you want to. When was it written? I ask because a friend sent me a book "one heartbeat away" by Mark Cahill. I told her I would read it but it is tough to get through, the claims he makes to refute science are so weak or outdated and then he uses those claims to further his arguments, its just tough to get through it. Edit- Cahill's book was written in 05 and science has moved forward enough since then to totally dismantle some of his claims. (Neanderthals are not real for example)
Last edited by Donnersurvivor; 11/17/20 02:05 AM.
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Re: Anyone like me
[Re: BandB]
#7052596
11/17/20 02:33 AM
11/17/20 02:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,200 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,200
Alaska and Washington State
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Her decision may have been based on the biblical teaching of being equally yoked with another believer. Maybe Donnersurvivor is a "believer"; just sayin.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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