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Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7112846
12/30/20 09:01 PM
12/30/20 09:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
When you have 30+ pages for deer and 30+ for small game, another 30 plus fishing regulations, etc, the wardens job becomes education. Sure we are heading in the other direction, but that just gives us that much more that can change and there has been lots of it over the last few years. Look at social media today and any group. There are thousands asking to understand the rules. Most just don't do enough to care to know the rule book inside and out.
Take a couple years off and the person returning would be lost.

Even when they do highlight a new rule proposal, most miss it because they don't think it through. Take the wording change on submersion sets. Even Muskrat missed it and he teaches trappers ed.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7112887
12/30/20 09:39 PM
12/30/20 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline
trapper
Bob_Iowa  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
One thing is if they get rid of the 22 caliber part then the hornet would be legal, and the buckshot part is really dumb, I hope you guys can get it fixed.

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: Bob_Iowa] #7112898
12/30/20 09:48 PM
12/30/20 09:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content OP
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Bob_Iowa
One thing is if they get rid of the 22 caliber part then the hornet would be legal, and the buckshot part is really dumb, I hope you guys can get it fixed.


the hornet is a .22 caliber bullet

the 204 ruger is not

it is intended to be an example of reasonable equipment not the definition of reasonable equipment but it isn't how it is being read by dnr staff.

they could not fine the poacher additionally for unreasonable equipment because clearly it worked.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7112915
12/30/20 09:55 PM
12/30/20 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline
trapper
Bob_Iowa  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
I’m sorry I meant the 17 hornet.

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7112962
12/30/20 10:31 PM
12/30/20 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,142
Wisconsin
M
Moosetrot Offline
trapper
Moosetrot  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,142
Wisconsin
I have not had time to digest this whole thing and do not know if this is part of the rules process or it is legislative.

The next meeting of the Natural Resources Board is January 26 & 27.That would be a good start for a flood of emails addressed to the members of the NRB. I think what may be a good direction to take on this is what hopefully something that was overlooked or in error in the 2021 Regulations that has serious impacts on hunters in Wisconsin. Many coyote hunters use shot sizes larger than T as they are very effective and have been used for a long time so arbitrary or erroneous restrictions will impact a large percentage of Wisconsin coyote hunters. Further we also ought to bring up the restrictions on large-bore rimfire rifles, etc. appearing to also be an error or oversight in the 2021 Regulations pamphlet.

It must be noted to the NRB that we have been informed that Law Enforcement will be actively enforcing these regulations and so a large number of Wisconsin hunters are very concerned about these restrictions on ammunition that has historically been used, in some cases rendering rimfire large-bores obsolete unnecessarily.

We must ask the NRB to address these errors (hopefully) as quickly as possible. It would not be a bad idea to also cc your State Representatives as they will be heavily involved if it is a legislative rather than a rules issue. We fully understand the movement to simplify regulations, however this process has had unintended consequences or errors that must be corrected for the hunters of Wisconsin.

Get on this folks!

Moosetrot

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7112982
12/30/20 10:43 PM
12/30/20 10:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content OP
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
it is a number of cartridges all very capable of taking small game

the center fire
17 hornet
17 ackey hornet
17 ackey bee
17 Remington
17 Mach IV
17-222
17-223
17 Remington fireball
20 tactical
204 ruger

rimfire
17HMR
17 HM2
17 Win super mag
17 pmc


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7112988
12/30/20 10:47 PM
12/30/20 10:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,142
Wisconsin
M
Moosetrot Offline
trapper
Moosetrot  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,142
Wisconsin
Keep posting that stuff, Pete. The better-informed the writers of emails, etc. are, the more they will be taken seriously by the NRB.

Moosetrot

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: WIMarshRAT] #7113185
12/31/20 01:00 AM
12/31/20 01:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,384
WI
B
BvrRetriever Offline
trapper
BvrRetriever  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,384
WI
Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
When you have 30+ pages for deer and 30+ for small game, another 30 plus fishing regulations, etc, the wardens job becomes education. Sure we are heading in the other direction, but that just gives us that much more that can change and there has been lots of it over the last few years. Look at social media today and any group. There are thousands asking to understand the rules. Most just don't do enough to care to know the rule book inside and out.
Take a couple years off and the person returning would be lost.

Even when they do highlight a new rule proposal, most miss it because they don't think it through. Take the wording change on submersion sets. Even Muskrat missed it and he teaches trappers ed.




That’s the problem...there is absolutely no reason for 30 plus pages for the regs let alone 30 for trapping, 30 for small game and 30 for big game! And that’s only the stuff in the handbook...

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113200
12/31/20 01:19 AM
12/31/20 01:19 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
trapper
tlguy  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
Better to simplify it and make it illegal to use .17 hmr for squirrel?

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113239
12/31/20 01:48 AM
12/31/20 01:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,384
WI
B
BvrRetriever Offline
trapper
BvrRetriever  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,384
WI
I think you misinterpreted what I meant. It doesn’t take 30 pages and a Philadelphia lawyer to go hunting or trapping. There are tons of laws that are not published in the handbook that the common folk don’t know about. If they want to give you a little love, BOCHICA! Maybe leave something to common sense is all I’m saying.

BTW, the .17 is an outstanding squirrel gun!

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: BvrRetriever] #7113465
12/31/20 09:43 AM
12/31/20 09:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,403
USA-WI
K
Kre Offline
trapper
Kre  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,403
USA-WI
Originally Posted by BvrRetriever
Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
When you have 30+ pages for deer and 30+ for small game, another 30 plus fishing regulations, etc, the wardens job becomes education. Sure we are heading in the other direction, but that just gives us that much more that can change and there has been lots of it over the last few years. Look at social media today and any group. There are thousands asking to understand the rules. Most just don't do enough to care to know the rule book inside and out.
Take a couple years off and the person returning would be lost.

Even when they do highlight a new rule proposal, most miss it because they don't think it through. Take the wording change on submersion sets. Even Muskrat missed it and he teaches trappers ed.




That’s the problem...there is absolutely no reason for 30 plus pages for the regs let alone 30 for trapping, 30 for small game and 30 for big game! And that’s only the stuff in the handbook...



We need to simplify it like South Dakota. Short, sweet and simple...even I can understand the regulations when I'm out there.

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: BvrRetriever] #7113474
12/31/20 09:50 AM
12/31/20 09:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 447
Kiel,Wisconsin
H
Hatchetman Offline
trapper
Hatchetman  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 447
Kiel,Wisconsin
If I were a warden, I would inform the people in violation of the stupid law and that would be it.

I would say "I won't ticket you over this dumb law, but be careful if you're in the next county over cause that warden might... Carry on..."

Actually, there is quite a few other laws I'd have a hard time enforcing.

Probably wouldn't win the "warden of the year award" from the state DNR or keep my job very long... Lol.

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113493
12/31/20 10:12 AM
12/31/20 10:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
G
Getting There Offline
trapper
Getting There  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
I am beginning to think our wild life department are getting to be like car manufactures, they have to keep making new rules etc. to show the boss they are doing something to keep there jobs. JMO


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113505
12/31/20 10:16 AM
12/31/20 10:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
trapper
Bruce T  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
They just made it more complicated here in maine when they did that.


Nevada bound
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: Getting There] #7113507
12/31/20 10:17 AM
12/31/20 10:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,657
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,657
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Getting There
I am beginning to think our wild life department are getting to be like car manufactures, they have to keep making new rules etc. to show the boss they are doing something to keep there jobs. JMO

Truth


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113532
12/31/20 10:38 AM
12/31/20 10:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content OP
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
I don't think a total re-write is necessary and departmental education of even a thousand people state wide who can be given an email a memo . trained by their supervisor , ect.. while at work will be much easier than the better part of a million who really just want to get to their hunt.

I have written a few local ordinances I work really hard to make things enforceable yet extremely clear without a deep dive into nuance detail.
Starting by stating the intent is a good place it put the officer , judge and citizen in the right framing.

one of my pet peeves is poorly written instruction and procedure. demands and details with no explanation of the goal.

the goal here is, to reduce a target wild animal to possession.
to kill a game animal in an effective and humane way so that it can be taken into possession and made a part of the bag limit. no one wants a bunch of wounded game running around it's wasteful.
the issue is examples were given and personnel in the department took them as the only reasonable options

here is the text


Reasonable equipment
It is illegal to hunt with any weapon or ammunition that is of inherent design, or used in such a manner, as to not be reasonably capable of reducing a target wild animal to possession.
The following are presumed reasonable equipment:
• A firearm with a caliber of at least .22.
• A bow with a minimum draw weight of 30 pounds.
• A crossbow with a minimum draw weight of 100 pounds.
• A raptor, as defined in s. NR 18.01 (10).
• Commercially manufactured or similar hand-loaded or re-loaded ammunition.
• An arrow or bolt with a sharpened broad-head blade. MuzzleloadersMuzzleloaders may be used statewide during any firearm deer season.
During the muzzleloader-only deer season,all muzzleloaders must have a solid threaded breech plug making them capable of being loaded only from the muzzle. Black powder revolvers are not legal during the muzzleloader-only season because they are capable of being loaded by the cylinder instead of the muzzle.
2020 Wisconsin Hunting Regulations4

the addendum I think needs to be added for this section
this is not an extensive list. these are simply examples of equipment that can be considered reasonable
- a bow of lesser poundage 20 or 25 pounds for small game at reasonable distances would also be considered reasonable
- a .17 caliber rim-fire for small game would also be considered reasonable.
any equipment that is reasonably capable of reducing a wild target animal to possession is reasonable equipment.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113586
12/31/20 11:26 AM
12/31/20 11:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
K
Kelly Offline
trapper
Kelly  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
it is a number of cartridges all very capable of taking small game

the center fire
17 hornet
17 ackey hornet
17 ackey bee
17 Remington
17 Mach IV
17-222
17-223
17 Remington fireball
20 tactical
204 ruger

rimfire
17HMR
17 HM2
17 Win super mag
17 pmc


Don’t forget the 5mm Remington Magnum, smaller caliber than 22 but more powerful than the 22 Magnum. This is a rimfire cartridge and an excellent small to medium size game cartridge. I’ve harvested many coyotes and bobcats with it while living out West. It’s sort of obsolete but from time to time there is ammo available.


Enjoy Mother Nature's Glory, everyday!

Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!

Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113669
12/31/20 12:35 PM
12/31/20 12:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content OP
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
I am not sure large bore rimfires for deer/bear/elk are worth messing with since technically they have not been legal for deer for a few decades maybe longer.


buck shot for coyote being a separate issue I just don't understand what they are trying to do there.

I think what they were trying to get at is they want you to declare what your hunting before you step foot in the field and not have both types of shells in your possession.

i can understand that but saying no buck at all ever doesn't seem right.

if your night hunting , running dogs or calling buckshot is a good tool.

possessing buck shot and a game bird , small or large game other than coyote or other animal that is not legal to shoot with buck shot should be the violation.

coyote should really become an unprotected species like skunk and possum
they already place uprotected species , coyote , racoon and fox in the same category repeatedly.
Night hunting Unprotected species (as well as coyote, fox and raccoon) may be hunted without shooting hour restrictions except if hunting with a bow or crossbow


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: Kelly] #7113678
12/31/20 12:40 PM
12/31/20 12:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content OP
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content OP
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Kelly
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
it is a number of cartridges all very capable of taking small game

the center fire
17 hornet
17 ackey hornet
17 ackey bee
17 Remington
17 Mach IV
17-222
17-223
17 Remington fireball
20 tactical
204 ruger

rimfire
17HMR
17 HM2
17 Win super mag
17 pmc


Don’t forget the 5mm Remington Magnum, smaller caliber than 22 but more powerful than the 22 Magnum. This is a rimfire cartridge and an excellent small to medium size game cartridge. I’ve harvested many coyotes and bobcats with it while living out West. It’s sort of obsolete but from time to time there is ammo available.

with all the sub 22cal rounds that do or could exist naming them for the rules is pointless. however yes there are definitely ones even I missed and I though I had them all.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: WARNING WISCONSIN REGS CHANGED [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7113741
12/31/20 01:26 PM
12/31/20 01:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,142
Wisconsin
M
Moosetrot Offline
trapper
Moosetrot  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,142
Wisconsin
Coyote became a de facto protected species when they closed the season on them in the northern counties to protect the wolves. That was back in the 80's.

I really think that if enough folks...on here and elsewhere...point out what could very well be a correctable error in development of the current regulations, that we may make a difference. At this point I think we should concentrate on specific issues rather than a total re-write.

All it will take is well-thought, respectful emails directed to the NRB through their liaison. The address can be found on the DNR website.

Moosetrot

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