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Joined the world of muzzleloading today #7134410
01/13/21 01:43 AM
01/13/21 01:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,263
Indiana
K
kyron4 Offline OP
trapper
kyron4  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,263
Indiana
Picked up a Traditions Deerhunter side lock (cap) muzzleloader today. It's my first, and I plan to use it next deer season during the ML season and to shoot with the kids this summer out back. I'm planning on using patch and ball and black powder loads, but have no clue as to what brand/type powder to use, and my head is spinning from all the powders available. I keep reading that Geotex ? ffG or fffg works best in side locks ? Also from what I have read a .490" ball with a .015" prelubed patch with 60-80 gr. of BP should be good for deer in the 50 to 100 yds range ? Just want to keep things simple and easy and not over complicate things. This is all new to me so please forgive my ignorance on the subject. Any advice or recommendations ? -Thanks

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134421
01/13/21 02:40 AM
01/13/21 02:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,334
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
trapper
danny clifton  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,334
williamsburg ks
Hundred yards is a long ways with a roundball. You may need to shoot a little less distance. If you shoot goex (real black powder) you will need to swab out your barrel some after each shot if you use a thick patch. Pyrodex you can just keep loading and shooting. Both are real corrosive. After your done shooting and get back in the house you need to completely disassemble your gun and clean it thoroughly to prevent rust.

You will know by the crack your rifle makes when your ball has broke the sound barrier. Once you reach that velocity, got a nice sharp crack, you can play around with loads till you find the most accurate one. Like any new gun the groups will tighten up after you put about a hundred rounds through it. FF black powder and RS pyrodex are granulated for rifles but don't be afraid to play around with FFF goex or P pyrodex in your rifle either. It might shoot better with one of them.

If you lay a piece of toilet paper on the ground and put the muzzle about 3-4 inchs away from the paper, then pop a cap with no powder in the rifle, the paper should move. If it does you shouldnt have any ignition trouble. Popping that cap helps dry any oil from cleaning too. Its a good idea anytime your getting ready to shoot a clean rifle.

If you shoot pyrodex dont weigh your charge. Use a blackpowder volume measure. Pyrodex weighs less by volume. There are conversion charts or you can put the contents of a volume measure on your powder scale. Its not an advantage to weigh your charge IMO. Unlike smokeless powder 2-3 grains wont effect where your bullet hits. When your playing with loads I would go up in 5 grain increments.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134448
01/13/21 05:30 AM
01/13/21 05:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,967
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,967
Iowa
It's a little early in the year yet, but if there are any rondevous or black powder shooting events in your area, check them out. Those guys are pretty knowledgeable in all things black powder and are usually eager to help a beginner out.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134459
01/13/21 05:57 AM
01/13/21 05:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,042
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
trapper
Ridge Runner1960  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,042
eastern WV
depending on your actual bore diameter, you may want to try the .490/.015 ball/patch and the .495/.010 combo, can make a big difference, shoot a couple and look downrange to find your patch, check it for holes, either burnt or cut by rifling. I always use bore butter as a patch lube, fired patch should have a dark cross burnt on it. I shot 100 gr. of P pyrodex in my side hammer. keep it clean, find some RWS #11 caps, hottest cap I found. have fun
RR

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134482
01/13/21 06:41 AM
01/13/21 06:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,676
NE
M
Marty B Offline
"arbitrary noob"
Marty B  Offline
"arbitrary noob"
M

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,676
NE
Originally Posted by kyron4
Picked up a Traditions Deerhunter side lock (cap) muzzleloader today. It's my first, and I plan to use it next deer season during the ML season and to shoot with the kids this summer out back. I'm planning on using patch and ball and black powder loads, but have no clue as to what brand/type powder to use, and my head is spinning from all the powders available. I keep reading that Geotex ? ffG or fffg works best in side locks ? Also from what I have read a .490" ball with a .015" prelubed patch with 60-80 gr. of BP should be good for deer in the 50 to 100 yds range ? Just want to keep things simple and easy and not over complicate things. This is all new to me so please forgive my ignorance on the subject. Any advice or recommendations ? -Thanks





First thing right now, get on Grafs, and order some 2f, or 3f.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/17007


I like goex, Swiss is popular but expensive. You don't get to be very picky right now.





Then get on Midway, and order some rws #11 percussion caps.

About the only ones in stock anywhere right now.





Don't screw around, do it right now while they're in stock.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134505
01/13/21 07:05 AM
01/13/21 07:05 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Michigan
coonlove Offline
trapper
coonlove  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Michigan
All good advice above. Welcome to a small but loyal fraternity. Get a subscription to Muzzleloader magazine-you have a couple hundred years of knowledge to catch up on.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134532
01/13/21 07:38 AM
01/13/21 07:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,457
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,457
meadowview, Virginia
Either real BP or one of the substitutes will work in a cap lock. I personally don't see any purpose in the substitutes because the powder residue is still corrosive so the gun needs to be cleaed after shooting just like for BP, and is no easier to clean. My experience with BP vs Pyrodex is different from Danny's in that I do not have to clean between shots with BP any more than Pyrodex and have found it to be more dependent on the individual rifle rather than what powder is used.

As Danny alludes to, Pyrodex is a BP substitute used on a volume basis rather than charge weight. If you shoot 60 grains of BP, the appropriate Pyrodex load is the volume of Pyrodex that fills your 60 gr BP measure.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: coonlove] #7134606
01/13/21 08:46 AM
01/13/21 08:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 39,124
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 39,124
Minnesota
Originally Posted by coonlove
All good advice above. Welcome to a small but loyal fraternity. Get a subscription to Muzzleloader magazine-you have a couple hundred years of knowledge to catch up on.

smile

Yes, Congrats


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134653
01/13/21 09:23 AM
01/13/21 09:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 53
N Central Kansas
Z
ZionHeritageFarm Offline
trapper
ZionHeritageFarm  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 53
N Central Kansas
You will be better with Goex, Swiss, etc (real black powder) or Pyrodex. They will light fine in a sidelock. Subs like Triple 7, Blackhorn 209, or Black MZ are made for inlines and typically take a hotter ignition system.
FFg or FFFg ( granulation size, more Fs = finer powder ) will work well. Decrease your loads some if you are going to use FFFg as it burns faster. Same holds true in Pyrodex RS = rifle/shotgun and P = pistol, P being finer, so faster burning.
Your choice of ball and patch should be a good starting place. Good luck to you and have fun !


From Zion, perfect in beauty, God shines forth. Psalms 50:2
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134866
01/13/21 12:58 PM
01/13/21 12:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,322
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,322
pa
After you take a shot, lay a dry patch on your tongue to wet one side a little and run that down the barrel. Flip it over and run it down again and then throw away. Now your ready to load again.

The other guys gave you good load info.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134891
01/13/21 01:30 PM
01/13/21 01:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 183
Cheyenne, Wyoming
W
wadask Offline
trapper
wadask  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 183
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Goex is the best powder much softer carbon after firing makes it easier to clean. With this gun id do FF slightly slower than FFF it all has to do with your twist rate. Swiss powder is more consistent and faster but produces a harder carbon fowling and harder to clean between shots. I clean after two shots.One wet patch two dry than start shooting again. You will need .490 and .495 balls, .10, .15, .18 and .20th thick patches. Just stick with bore butter for lubrication. I always load the largest ball with the tightness patch combination that you can comfortably tap/push down the barrel. If you need to use a hammer or pound more than once with your hand its to tight and unnecessary pounding on the ball down the barrel will deform the ball and lose accuracy.
Now you purchased a 1-48 twit barrel which are not very good for round balls they tend to start to lose accuracy after 50 yards. You need a 1-56 or 60 twist if you want to get serious about shooting round balls for accuracy.
It will be much easier to get light conical to shoot more accurately than round balls out of this gun.
Second of all don't exceed 50-60 grains because to much speed will cause the ball to skip the lands instead of engaging them because of the fast twist and now your scratching your head why you have 10 inch groups at 50 yrds.
I would highly suggest getting a Tipco range rod or other solid brass range rod with a bore guide.
Lynman great plains rifles are an excellent production rifle.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134928
01/13/21 02:17 PM
01/13/21 02:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
I have the traditions deer hunter , handy little side lock

I use .015 pillow ticking for patch material with a .490 and it is plenty tight

75-85 gr of powder will likely be where you want to be start at 70-75 and see how it groups work up as you want if accuracy falls apart go back.

you need a flask or horn

a powder measure

I would get a nipple wrench and pick , welding tip cleaning picks work well

#11 caps and a couple spare nipples

I use mostly schutzen powder it is what I can get sort of local it keeps forever if you keep it dry.

for a patch lube and at range cleaning solution I use moose milk or speed juice

moose milk = napa water soluble cutting and grinding oil product number 565-1526 I mix it to the 1:10 dilution like I was going to use it in a drill press you will find that on the back of the bottle
a 12 ounce spray bottle add 10oz of water one ounce of oil shake and use

speed juice = 1/3 rubbing alcohol 1/3 hydrogen peroxide 1/3 murphy's oil soap

both help keep fouling soft and lube the patch

yes spit also works but if your shooting a bunch this is more convenient than that gauze in your mouth feeling

fast twist barrels , faster than 1:48 can shoot round balls decent

we are talking deer at 50 just fine with a conical or patched ball 2 inches at 50 yards is definitely doable I was scoring hits on the steel plate ever time with my deer hunter at 100 yards.

a range rod I like the Creedmoor rods from track of the wolf

a brush , jag, and hot water and soap to clean then flush with clear water , dry fully and put the bore butter or wonder lube on it https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/wonder-lube-1000-plus-2/

store muzzle down this way excess lube doesn't collect in the flash channel


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134930
01/13/21 02:19 PM
01/13/21 02:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,407
east central WI
K
k snow Offline
trapper
k snow  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,407
east central WI
Excellent advice GCP.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7134981
01/13/21 03:11 PM
01/13/21 03:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
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M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
Lots of good advice here. But I'll add a caveat...

Every gun is different and has its own personality... That means someone who has the exact same gun will have a patch/ball/lube combo and powder charge that is accurate and loads/shoots well for them... But it may not work well in your gun at all. You have to experiment and see what works well for your individual gun.

Don't get discouraged if your gun doesn't shoot well at first... If it's brand new your barrel will still have small burrs, sharp edges, machining marks, etc... In the barrel. This can lead to patches snagging during loading and being cut. Shoot the snot out of it for a few sessions to break the barrel in. You'll probably start to notice it loads a little easier after a lot of shooting.

Lots of patch lubes out there... Everything from spit to teflon. Patch lube serves a few functions... Lubricant to help the patch/ball combo slide down the bore... Softens fouling... And helps protect the fibers of the patch material from burning during firing. Spit works good if you're target shooting and loading and firing without any delay between shots, but it can dry out if you're loading the gun in the morning and sitting in a tree stand all day. And some guns just don't like spit patches... My .32 likes them... My .45 doesn't.

Patch/ball... Your gun will tell you what it likes. For a .50 caliber they make ball molds from .480 up to .500... Typically a tighter patch/ball combo gives better accuracy (again, not always) but the trade off may mean more effort to start and seat it. A tight combo also has the added bonus of acting like a squeegee to wipe fouling from the bore as you seat the ball on the powder... Then you blow that fouling out when you take the shot.

My .45 takes a .445 ball and .018 pillow ticking... The math says that combo measures at .481 but I can start that combo in my muzzle without a short starter... Just the butt end of my knife. If I use a .020 patch it's tight enough I have to use the nubbin on a short starter to start it in the bore.

The geometry of your muzzle crown also plays a role in how difficult starting a patch/ball may be... My .32 has such a small crown that it is almost square... Tough to load a tight combo without tearing the patch. My .45 has a nice radius which makes starting a tight combo quite easy. The crown can be modified but a lot of folks understandably prefer not to attempt it.

Powder: I own nothing but flinters now so only the real holy black for me... I use Goex, but I have some Swiss too. Graf's sells their own brand which I believe is just Schutzen repackaged in Graf's bottles. It's cheap, but you may get what you pay for.
I used 777 in my cap gun without any issues... Your gun may not ignite it well. If you have a buddy that uses 777, try some before you drop $30 for a pound of it. It's the only substitute I would use. I won't use Pyrodex at all.

Wiping between shots: Some do, some don't. Some it depends on the gun. With a tight patch/ball combo and sustained shooting, my .45 doesn't need wiping... If I stop to take a smoke break or eat lunch, etc... The fouling will start to set up and may require a swipe before continuing to shoot. My .32 will only go about 15 shots before it gets snug enough to need a wipe.

The main thing to accuracy and performance with a front stuffer is consistency... Eliminate as many variables as possible and do everything the same every time. When you're working on load development... Powder charge, ball size, patch material, patch material thickness, lube, etc... change only one thing at a time. And take notes... Keep track of how changing one thing effects performance until you find the best combination.

Oh! One more thing... Be safe and have fun.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135002
01/13/21 03:34 PM
01/13/21 03:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
good advice Mike

find what works for you and your gun and do it the same every time.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135009
01/13/21 03:36 PM
01/13/21 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 35,106
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
trapper
Bruce T  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 35,106
Northern Maine
Congrats.Muzzleloading is fun.I'm holding out for the new traditions firestick muzzleloader myself.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7135285
01/13/21 06:59 PM
01/13/21 06:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
I have the traditions deer hunter , handy little side lock

I use .015 pillow ticking for patch material with a .490 and it is plenty tight

75-85 gr of powder will likely be where you want to be start at 70-75 and see how it groups work up as you want if accuracy falls apart go back.

you need a flask or horn

a powder measure

I would get a nipple wrench and pick , welding tip cleaning picks work well

#11 caps and a couple spare nipples

I use mostly schutzen powder it is what I can get sort of local it keeps forever if you keep it dry.

for a patch lube and at range cleaning solution I use moose milk or speed juice

moose milk = napa water soluble cutting and grinding oil product number 565-1526 I mix it to the 1:10 dilution like I was going to use it in a drill press you will find that on the back of the bottle
a 12 ounce spray bottle add 10oz of water one ounce of oil shake and use

speed juice = 1/3 rubbing alcohol 1/3 hydrogen peroxide 1/3 murphy's oil soap

both help keep fouling soft and lube the patch

yes spit also works but if your shooting a bunch this is more convenient than that gauze in your mouth feeling

fast twist barrels , faster than 1:48 can shoot round balls decent

we are talking deer at 50 just fine with a conical or patched ball 2 inches at 50 yards is definitely doable I was scoring hits on the steel plate ever time with my deer hunter at 100 yards.

a range rod I like the Creedmoor rods from track of the wolf

a brush , jag, and hot water and soap to clean then flush with clear water , dry fully and put the bore butter or wonder lube on it https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/wonder-lube-1000-plus-2/

store muzzle down this way excess lube doesn't collect in the flash channel


Pete gave some awesome advice here... Another reason I got away from spit patches is that "gauze feeling" in my mouth... I'll get gagged if I'm not careful LOL. A trick I learned was that for my first shot that I would put 2 patches folded in half between my cheek and gum while I measured my powder and fished out a ball... One patch went down the bore while the other "soaked" a bit during firing... On my second shot I would measure/pour my powder and then fish out a fresh patch and swap it out with the one in my mouth.

But except for my .32 I rarely use spit patches anymore... I bought a tin of the Trapper's Mink Oil from Track of the Wolf... $6.99 for an 8 oz tin... And 8 oz will last you a LONG time. I cut my patches at the muzzle from a strip of pre-greased ticking that hangs from my pouch strap.

A lot of guys use the Moose Milk recipe with good success too. There's 50,000 different ways to do this stuff... As long as you do it safe, do what works for you.

One more thing... You're using a percussion gun so I highly recommend one of the cap dispenser things... I had one of the brass Ted Cash jobbers, shaped like a comma. Years ago I think I paid $30 for mine... They're likely $50 now. Expensive, but to me they're worth every penny. Better than fiddling around with a tin and tiny caps when you're fingers are numb from cold.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135299
01/13/21 07:07 PM
01/13/21 07:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,322
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,322
pa
Only clean the barrel with a spit patch. I use pre lubed patches for shooting.

I get more consistent shots if I swab the barrel between each shot.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135371
01/13/21 07:50 PM
01/13/21 07:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,676
NE
M
Marty B Offline
"arbitrary noob"
Marty B  Offline
"arbitrary noob"
M

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,676
NE

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135716
01/13/21 10:02 PM
01/13/21 10:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
the way I get the kids started we go over a safety breif

then this procedure

I pull a rifle from the rack often my little deer hunter.

like taking any rifle form the rack we check that it is empty

place the hammer on half c-o-ck
pull the ram rod and drop it down the bore , explain that it both bounces , rings a bit and is flush with the muzzle (or even with an unloaded mark on some)
I pull the rod and show them that placed against the side of the barrel my rod comes about even with the bolster on the deer hunter the flash hole on the flinter this also lets me know it is empty,

I go over the terms briefly Lock , stock , barrel , muzzle , nipple , hammer , half c-o-ck and full c-o-ck , trigger, thimbles ram rod.
some are the same as modern guns and some are unique to muzzle loading
(I call the line hot)
then I step up to the line cap and fire down range
cap and pop that cap also down range
I cap a 3rd time and place the muzzle down range but at a blade of grass and pop that cap watching that the blade of grass or leaf is moved by the gasses exiting the bore

for a demo of how much pressure there is I will take a sheet of paper towel or tissue and rubber band it over the muzzle , then pop a cap down range it will blow a hole through.

back to the loading bench
place the hammer at half c-o-ck
I moisten a patch with Speed juice and run it down the barrel with the range rod , asking the kids what they hear. a hissing sound air rushing out the nipple (or flash channel in the flinter) if they don't hear the air rushing we need to start diagnosing why.
there will be a little soot on the patch , this is the cap and the oil that may have been in the flash channel.

now we have a ready to load muzzle loader

measure powder (the cap needs to be back on the powder before it is poured in the muzzle this is why I like flasks as they are self capping)
we limit the kids to a max of 60gr it is enough to shoot targets , yet 1/2 of a max charge for the gun
70 is a good place to start working a hunting load in a 50
you make sure the muzzle is away from your face as you pour powder ( you at no point put your face over the muzzle the gun stays angled away from you)
then lube a patch, I will sometimes take the patch I cleaned with flip it and place it over the muzzle we use pillow ticking patches for consistence and I don't fully know if it 100% matters I put the stripes up and down in line with the front sight
set the ball on the patch sprue up if your using Hornady swaged balls there is no sprue , I cast the balls so we have sprue . sprue is the flat spot where the lead was poured into the mold then is sheared off flat.
start the ball with the button on the short starter , then run it down with the long starter(the shaft)
then using the range rod with short strokes and not grabbing over the end of the rod.
when you have the ball down on the powder take note of how much rod is still out of the barrel. we mark the range rod with a marker or electrical tape. this is the mark you need to get to each time when loading this charge of powder.
I show the kids that it is approximately the same as the powder measure is set for and the ball

we can tell what is empty from the factory ram-rod and we can see and mark the rod for loaded this is so that we have this as a tool to diagnose problems later.

Now we have a loaded muzzle loader , make sure the ramrod is out and head to the firing line

with the muzzle down range, cap the nipple you often have to pull the hammer back to full c-o-ck to get your thumb in there give it a firm push down if it is not seated on the nipple the fist fall of the hammer may not set it off and just seat it further on the nipple the second strike will generally fire it.
take aim
because we have a number of people on the range and some muzzle loaders send a jet of gasses out to the side we call "fire in the hole" and i think it is fun for the kids to say they then have warned the line around them they intend to fire they acquire final aim and sqweeeeeeze the trigger, special attention is paid to focus on follow through stay on the target , if it pops and does not boom stay down range wait there can be a hang fire when 30 seconds have passed while keeping down range they may recap and try again,

because we followed all the steps above it goes boom

clear the spent cap from the hammer cup it it is stuck there place on half c-o-ck and return to the loading bench

the reload
moisten a patch , run the patch your listening for the hiss (this cleans the bore to the same each time , snuffs any ember that could remain and pushes air out your nipple to make sure it is clear)
measure the powder, pour the powder
with a fresh moistened patch or the fresh side of the patch place it over the muzzle center it and place the ball in the center sprue up
start the ball with the ball starter
using short strokes run the ball down and seat it on the powder (you don't need hard compression but you need it to the powder touching with no gap, be as consistent as you can from shot to shot)
remove the rod , head to the line, cap , aim , call fire in the hole and fire when ready.

this seems like a long process. I would say the initial run through takes 15 minutes or so, reload maybe 2.
rather than shooting the second shot I will have one of the younger or newer kids take that shot. if I have a steel plate hanging I will have them shoot that , the boom, the smoke and the ringgggg gets them ready for more.



tools and supplies at each loading station

range rod
short starter
patches
balls
powder in a flask
powder measure
small spray bottle of speed juice
a bucket or coffee can to put their trash in (loading stations get messy in a hurry clean is good or they loose things in the clutter)

this is what the kids need to know , and that if at any point any of it is not right ask for help from an instructor and keep the muzzle down range

tools I keep with me

a ball puller
welding torch cleaner set
screw driver with some bits
nipple wrench



as I said the youth program is limited to 60gr , most of the time for targets at 25 yards we shoot 30gr. we should get about 200-220 rounds to the pound there is always a little spillage

there is safety built into every part of this procedure it may be much more than what others do with their own muzzle loading. this is a teachable procedure for kids 12 and older with safety in mind.

I figured it would be a place for you or any new to muzzle loading person to start


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135717
01/13/21 10:03 PM
01/13/21 10:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 780
PA
CoonsBane Offline
trapper
CoonsBane  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 780
PA
Hunted this morning with the flintlock. Gun was outside all morning. Nice and cold. Was going to do the evening sit in a heated stand. Fired the gun and cleaned it then brought it in to the heated stand to let it warm up for an hour or two. I swabbed the barrel with a dry patch then loaded about two hours before dark and the barrel was still cool even though it had been in the heat. Just as legal shooting time comes to an end I've got a doe broadside. Pull the trigger and sparks, no flash. Pan is still full. Pull trigger again. Flash, no bang. Re-prime, flash no bang. Re-prime, bang some in the hole, just another flash in the pan. By this time, the deer is laughing so hard it can barely walk away. I head back to the cabin and try one more time, just a flash in the pan. I pull the ball and get some powder out. Rod won't go all the way down. Slug of solid powder. Had to break it up with the ball puller. Still couldn't get it all out. Had to break it down and do a full hot water cleaning.

The point of this story. Temperature changes for the gun = condensation. Moisture and black powder don't like each other.

Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135788
01/13/21 10:33 PM
01/13/21 10:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,226
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
trapper
Nessmuck  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,226
New Hampshire
Simple instructions

#1 ...get a powder measure...and a short starter

#2... pound of Goex FF powder

#3 ...start with .490 ball....and lubed .015 cut patches

#4....#11 percussion caps

#5...get a nipple pick / nipple wrench combo

#6.. gallon of Windsheild washer solvent

# 7 ...bag of cleaning patches

#8.. 50 cal Jag...Worm..

#9 ...run some cleaning patches with some Windsheild fluid on it....then a dry patch or 3 ..just to make sure its clean...and dry.

#10.... put a cap on the nipple ( with no powder in the barrel )...and pullback the hammer ..pull the trigger...and blast the cap.

#11... pick out the nipple ..with the nipple pick...to make sure it is clear.

#12....measure 70 grains of Goex Black powder and pour into barrel

#13...center patch over muzzle and center ball in the middle of the patch...ram down with the Short starter

#14 ..the take your ram rod and and push down until firmly seated on the powder charge

#15.. pull hammer back one click ( 1/2 (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)) ...and put a cap on the nipple

#16... with gun pointed down range...pull hammer to full (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)...If you have a set trigger..pull that next....Aim and fire.

#17 ...run a wet patch of Windsheild washer down....then 3 dry ones....Repeat and have fun....plenty of you tub3 videos to watch too


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7135794
01/13/21 10:36 PM
01/13/21 10:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
the way I get the kids started we go over a safety breif

then this procedure

I pull a rifle from the rack often my little deer hunter.

like taking any rifle form the rack we check that it is empty

place the hammer on half c-o-ck
pull the ram rod and drop it down the bore , explain that it both bounces , rings a bit and is flush with the muzzle (or even with an unloaded mark on some)
I pull the rod and show them that placed against the side of the barrel my rod comes about even with the bolster on the deer hunter the flash hole on the flinter this also lets me know it is empty,

I go over the terms briefly Lock , stock , barrel , muzzle , nipple , hammer , half c-o-ck and full c-o-ck , trigger, thimbles ram rod.
some are the same as modern guns and some are unique to muzzle loading
(I call the line hot)
then I step up to the line cap and fire down range
cap and pop that cap also down range
I cap a 3rd time and place the muzzle down range but at a blade of grass and pop that cap watching that the blade of grass or leaf is moved by the gasses exiting the bore

for a demo of how much pressure there is I will take a sheet of paper towel or tissue and rubber band it over the muzzle , then pop a cap down range it will blow a hole through.

back to the loading bench
place the hammer at half c-o-ck
I moisten a patch with Speed juice and run it down the barrel with the range rod , asking the kids what they hear. a hissing sound air rushing out the nipple (or flash channel in the flinter) if they don't hear the air rushing we need to start diagnosing why.
there will be a little soot on the patch , this is the cap and the oil that may have been in the flash channel.

now we have a ready to load muzzle loader

measure powder (the cap needs to be back on the powder before it is poured in the muzzle this is why I like flasks as they are self capping)
we limit the kids to a max of 60gr it is enough to shoot targets , yet 1/2 of a max charge for the gun
70 is a good place to start working a hunting load in a 50
you make sure the muzzle is away from your face as you pour powder ( you at no point put your face over the muzzle the gun stays angled away from you)
then lube a patch, I will sometimes take the patch I cleaned with flip it and place it over the muzzle we use pillow ticking patches for consistence and I don't fully know if it 100% matters I put the stripes up and down in line with the front sight
set the ball on the patch sprue up if your using Hornady swaged balls there is no sprue , I cast the balls so we have sprue . sprue is the flat spot where the lead was poured into the mold then is sheared off flat.
start the ball with the button on the short starter , then run it down with the long starter(the shaft)
then using the range rod with short strokes and not grabbing over the end of the rod.
when you have the ball down on the powder take note of how much rod is still out of the barrel. we mark the range rod with a marker or electrical tape. this is the mark you need to get to each time when loading this charge of powder.
I show the kids that it is approximately the same as the powder measure is set for and the ball

we can tell what is empty from the factory ram-rod and we can see and mark the rod for loaded this is so that we have this as a tool to diagnose problems later.

Now we have a loaded muzzle loader , make sure the ramrod is out and head to the firing line

with the muzzle down range, cap the nipple you often have to pull the hammer back to full c-o-ck to get your thumb in there give it a firm push down if it is not seated on the nipple the fist fall of the hammer may not set it off and just seat it further on the nipple the second strike will generally fire it.
take aim
because we have a number of people on the range and some muzzle loaders send a jet of gasses out to the side we call "fire in the hole" and i think it is fun for the kids to say they then have warned the line around them they intend to fire they acquire final aim and sqweeeeeeze the trigger, special attention is paid to focus on follow through stay on the target , if it pops and does not boom stay down range wait there can be a hang fire when 30 seconds have passed while keeping down range they may recap and try again,

because we followed all the steps above it goes boom

clear the spent cap from the hammer cup it it is stuck there place on half c-o-ck and return to the loading bench

the reload
moisten a patch , run the patch your listening for the hiss (this cleans the bore to the same each time , snuffs any ember that could remain and pushes air out your nipple to make sure it is clear)
measure the powder, pour the powder
with a fresh moistened patch or the fresh side of the patch place it over the muzzle center it and place the ball in the center sprue up
start the ball with the ball starter
using short strokes run the ball down and seat it on the powder (you don't need hard compression but you need it to the powder touching with no gap, be as consistent as you can from shot to shot)
remove the rod , head to the line, cap , aim , call fire in the hole and fire when ready.

this seems like a long process. I would say the initial run through takes 15 minutes or so, reload maybe 2.
rather than shooting the second shot I will have one of the younger or newer kids take that shot. if I have a steel plate hanging I will have them shoot that , the boom, the smoke and the ringgggg gets them ready for more.



tools and supplies at each loading station

range rod
short starter
patches
balls
powder in a flask
powder measure
small spray bottle of speed juice
a bucket or coffee can to put their trash in (loading stations get messy in a hurry clean is good or they loose things in the clutter)

this is what the kids need to know , and that if at any point any of it is not right ask for help from an instructor and keep the muzzle down range

tools I keep with me

a ball puller
welding torch cleaner set
screw driver with some bits
nipple wrench



as I said the youth program is limited to 60gr , most of the time for targets at 25 yards we shoot 30gr. we should get about 200-220 rounds to the pound there is always a little spillage

there is safety built into every part of this procedure it may be much more than what others do with their own muzzle loading. this is a teachable procedure for kids 12 and older with safety in mind.

I figured it would be a place for you or any new to muzzle loading person to start








Good write up Pete!

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135837
01/13/21 10:53 PM
01/13/21 10:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,226
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
trapper
Nessmuck  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,226
New Hampshire
Pete likes to type....I hate it.....


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: Nessmuck] #7135900
01/13/21 11:18 PM
01/13/21 11:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Nessmuck
Pete likes to type....I hate it.....


I never took a proper typing class and I started very slow but 25 years of typing up reports I figured out how to get decently fast at it.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135931
01/13/21 11:33 PM
01/13/21 11:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin

this is fairly close to the equipment at the loading stations , for the kids at the range we just leave tins of caps at the firing line but a capper is nice

this is track of the wolf

[Linked Image]


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: kyron4] #7135939
01/13/21 11:36 PM
01/13/21 11:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,814
Green County Wisconsin
I picked up my first muzzle loader for 99 dollars , what a shock it was when I had another hundred in before firing the first shot


oh anti seize , on the nipple threads


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Joined the world of muzzleloading today [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7135943
01/13/21 11:40 PM
01/13/21 11:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,369
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
I picked up my first muzzle loader for 99 dollars , what a shock it was when I had another hundred in before firing the first shot


oh anti seize , on the nipple threads


LOL, it's like buying a car where the price is great but they hammer you on all the frivolous extras... like a motor and tires.

The good thing about muzzleloading is you can make a lot of your own stuff to get you by.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
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